Otter
Nothing to see here
Not sure when he wrote that or when it was published, but he hit most everything I was thinking. Kinda eerie...
National championship decided?
- Thread starter msqtech
- Start date
Not sure when he wrote that or when it was published, but he hit most everything I was thinking. Kinda eerie...
Beta84
They're out to get us
kinda weird article. he basically argues that there is a need for a playoff, equates the Florida and Utah victories, ignores the entire scheduling aspect, and then declares Utah the national champions because they're undefeated. :shrug:
i agree with the need for a playoff to determine a "true" national champion, but until that happens the best you've got is the BCS system, which is putting UF vs OU. the system is there, that's all there is to it. it beats the old one.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
...
...119 D1 football teams.
What do people want? There is no practical way for any one of those teams to actually win the 'national' title on the field and the game still survive as a recognizable sports entertainment, yes, sports entertainment, product for the fans.
Even D1 basketball is not decided on the court. There is still selection involved that excludes many teams from the tournament.
Has anyone heard a suggestion or plan that guarantees a national football champion that does NOT include some level of picking and choosing when you're starting with 119 teams in a sport you simply can't expect the STUDENTS to play game after game after game?
The NFL, pro football, takes four months for 32 teams to get down to 12.
I mean, are people turning away from college football because of the lack of a 'legit' winner?
What's THE answer?
...119 D1 football teams.
What do people want? There is no practical way for any one of those teams to actually win the 'national' title on the field and the game still survive as a recognizable sports entertainment, yes, sports entertainment, product for the fans.
Even D1 basketball is not decided on the court. There is still selection involved that excludes many teams from the tournament.
Has anyone heard a suggestion or plan that guarantees a national football champion that does NOT include some level of picking and choosing when you're starting with 119 teams in a sport you simply can't expect the STUDENTS to play game after game after game?
The NFL, pro football, takes four months for 32 teams to get down to 12.
I mean, are people turning away from college football because of the lack of a 'legit' winner?
What's THE answer?
Tilted
..
I would just like someone to correct 'The Great Injustice of 1990', and give the sole national championship to Georgia Tech.
Otter
Nothing to see here
Won't argue any of that, the BCS is what it is..I'm not sure how schedules are made now, but I remember long ago reading something that said that other then league teams, the out of league teams are scheduled 4 or 5 yrs in advance. There is no way to know if the teams you schedule are going to be good when you eventually play them.
Do I think Utah is the best team in the country?, no I don't...but they played who was scheduled and beat them all. Until there is a more equitable way of settling who's #1, a team like Utah doesn't have a prayer at being named #1 by the grand poobahs no matter what they do on the field. Thats okay, I understand, but I, Otter, declare them #1 in my world.
Beta84
They're out to get us
Some of the scheduling is done a few years in advance, some of it is done more recently. It just depends on the situation.
Yeah, Utah went undefeated...but that's like telling a team it's ok to play 4 terrible out of conference teams. Every BCS team who does that is criticized heavily for playing a weak schedule...and they play a relatively strong conference schedule. Utah doesn't even play a good conference schedule, let alone out of conference, so I don't understand how just because they went undefeated that makes them the best team. Play a good schedule and fine, it's deserved. But playing 4 ranked teams, 2 other OK teams, and a whole bunch of nothings doesn't give you a national title.
Larry -- a playoff helps, but I think once you start divvying out spots to the playoffs, you really need to do the top 16 or something...otherwise there would always be some sort of argument. I think NCAA Basketball does it just fine with 65 teams...leaving teams out that far down isn't a big deal. But football is a much more rigorous schedule and harder for them to play more games. Plus...as soon as you start doing a playoff, the bowl games start to lose some of the excitement.
thurley42
HY;FR
When Utah scheduled Michigan they had no idea they would blow this bad....There will always be teams left out of a tournament/playoff...look at the Pats this year...11-5 watching from home. A playoff at least gets a group of the best in the country fight it out....we generally don't hear about teams ranked #10 getting screwed out of the National Championship...It's teams in the top 3...maybe 4. In a playoff system takingthe top 8-10 teams and letting them go at it decides it on the field....you got left out? Have a better regular season and get ranked in the top 10...
Beta84
They're out to get us
There will always be teams left out of a tournament/playoff...look at the Pats this year...11-5 watching from home. A playoff at least gets a group of the best in the country fight it out....we generally don't hear about teams ranked #10 getting screwed out of the National Championship...It's teams in the top 3...maybe 4. In a playoff system takingthe top 8-10 teams and letting them go at it decides it on the field....you got left out? Have a better regular season and get ranked in the top 10...
I dunno about the top 3-4 teams bit. This year UF and OU made the title game. Texas was the loudest complainer due to the head to head win over OU. Bama was #4 but their only loss was to a top team (similar to OU's loss). USC at #5 had one loss early in the year to a quality team and felt they deserved a title chance. Utah at #6 was undefeated. #7/8 Penn State didn't understand why they were ranked so low with their only loss to a team relatively equal to Ole Miss (UF's loss), which was relatively equal to Oregon State (USC's loss). The other #7/#8 was Texas Tech, who only lost to Oklahoma. #9 Boise State was undefeated. Everyone other than Ohio State had a legitimate complaint from the top 10. Heck even Ohio State's losses were to USC and PSU, two top 10 teams. If you took the top 8 teams, someone would complain...likely PSU, Texas Tech, or Boise State. If it was fair and you only took 2 teams per conference at most, Texas Tech would have been left out in the cold.
The main problem with a playoff is that while there were 9 teams with legitimate claims to the title game, even if it was an 8 team playoff you'd still have some teams missing from action. The most common suggestion has been: 6 BCS conference champs, best mid-major, 1 at large. That means you have OU, UF, USC, Utah, PSU, Cinci, VTech, and probably Texas. Bama gets left out (though at least they had a "play-in" game against UF the week before), Texas Tech is out, and undefeated Boise State is out. But you get those craptastic Orange Bowl teams, Cinci and VTech, in place of Bama, Texas Tech, and Boise State? That's horrible!
Best scenario would be a 4 or 8 team playoff where there is a selection committee to pick the teams. I'd be ok with making a limit of 1 per conference in a 4 team, or 2 per conference in an 8 team (and would almost prefer it), but I hate the idea of seeing undeserving teams automatically qualify due to winning a crappy conference. If VTech ended up winning the playoff by some stroke of luck, would people have been happy with them as the national champs this year? I don't think so. There would be anarchy in the world of college football. Can't have that. On the other end, if Boise State, Bama, or Texas Tech won an 8 team playoff, people would be ok with that since they were deserving.
thurley42
HY;FR
You don't know about 3-4 teams? This year you have UF and Oklahoma playing for the title....Texas feels they were screwed...which they were...and half the country is declaring Utah National Champs...that is 4 teams! If there were 8/10/16/119 teams playing a playoff then like you said the winner was deserving...anyone that would question that would be an idiot...
It would be like saying the Giants didn't deserve to be super bowl champs...
At least Utah would have a fair shake this year, Texas would have a fair shake this year, hell maybe a few years back Boise St. could have flea flickered there way to a championship...
Beta84
They're out to get us
Prior to the bowl season, can you please tell me what separated Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, Alabama, Southern Cal, Utah, Penn State, Texas Tech, and Boise State...other than the perceived rankings given by human voters? All had 0 losses (the mid-major teams) or 1 loss. Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, Alabama, Penn State, and Texas Tech all lost to teams that played a January bowl. USC's loss to Oregon State was no worse than the losses suffered by the rest of them. Texas beat OU, UF beat Bama, Penn State and Utah beat Oregon State (who beat USC) but Penn State won the game in a more dominating fashion, Texas Tech beat Texas, etc. It's a cluster-#### up there.
Even after the bowls, you still have USC, Texas, Utah, and OU/UF winner who will say they deserved the national championship. Texas Tech, OU/UF loser, Penn State, Bama, and Boise all played and lost to quality teams (sorta like a playoff) so that eliminated 5 teams in "playoffs", but you still have 4 that are arguing they deserve the title. If you did a 4 team playoff and picked Texas and Bama, you still have USC and Utah complaining. If you put USC in for Bama, you still have Bama and Utah complaining (assuming they win their bowl games, which may have been against different teams).
Catch my drift? If Texas Tech and Boise State had won their bowls, they'd be crying right now. If Bama beat Utah and Penn State beat USC, those two teams would be crying instead of Utah/USC. I don't see how you could pick only 4 teams this season and not have people still crying about it in the end.
Beta84
They're out to get us
what happens in a situation like the Big 12 this year? and why is it ok for college basketball?
msqtech
Citizen
Its all over for this season.
college basketball is a playoff system
Well does last nights game make anyone feel better about the BCS?
college basketball is a playoff system
Well does last nights game make anyone feel better about the BCS?
Tilted
..
The BCS system isn't constructed to make people feel good. It is constructed to get people to watch and talk about it. A playoff system would be fine, if the design worked. But, as it is, it's still fine with me.
All I really want from the world is for it to be interesting. Sometimes that means things need to be interesting in a different way and for a different reason. We've got playoff systems all over the place in sports. What college football offers us, is something different to follow and debate. It's unique among major American sports. I think that's great, because I appreciate things for what they are instead of what I wish they were.
On another note, Utah got #2 in the AP. USC got #3.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
...
...nope. I think the BCS is a water cooler joke. However, with 119 teams, I do NOT see a satisfactory alternative. You'd have to end conferences, traditional rivalries and the bowl structure as it is and expand, greatly, the number of games played for the better teams and, conversely, greatly limit the number of games for the lesser teams because they'd get knocked out so early.
It serves no compelling interest to change the system other than the never ending desire for perfection over 'good enough'.
I'm happy with Florida being considered the champs.
...nope. I think the BCS is a water cooler joke. However, with 119 teams, I do NOT see a satisfactory alternative. You'd have to end conferences, traditional rivalries and the bowl structure as it is and expand, greatly, the number of games played for the better teams and, conversely, greatly limit the number of games for the lesser teams because they'd get knocked out so early.
It serves no compelling interest to change the system other than the never ending desire for perfection over 'good enough'.
I'm happy with Florida being considered the champs.
Beta84
They're out to get us
...nope. I think the BCS is a water cooler joke. However, with 119 teams, I do NOT see a satisfactory alternative. You'd have to end conferences, traditional rivalries and the bowl structure as it is and expand, greatly, the number of games played for the better teams and, conversely, greatly limit the number of games for the lesser teams because they'd get knocked out so early.
It serves no compelling interest to change the system other than the never ending desire for perfection over 'good enough'.
I'm happy with Florida being considered the champs.
Exactly. The good teams would have to play a ton of games. The bowl system would be blown up. The all-important regular season would lose some meaning. Basically, a playoff would potentially change the entire landscape of college football. I've seen numerous suggestions from people about a playoff, but nobody really agrees on the right answer. All of the "sports gurus" say they have "THE" answer and they all differ.
Either way, UF are the national champions this season. GO GATORS!!
Otter
Nothing to see here
Either way, UF are the national champions this season. GO GATORS!!
Not in Otter World.....
Beta84
They're out to get us
Not in Otter World.....
yeah but in otter world, if UF played Weber State 14 times they would still be the national champs. I don't like that world! That's why the Utes aren't champs. The only chance they'll ever have is if they play a bunch of good teams out of conference or if a playoff is created that includes 8 teams. Strength of schedule matters. It is what it is.
Otter
Nothing to see here
Would you get off the Weber State crap.
..Utah did play in a bowl and beat a former #1, quite convincingly. The BCS is what it is(a sham), but they are not all inclusive of all D1 teams, Utah is a D1 team, they weren't beat so they are the #1 team. Until the fans start putting pressure on the NCAA, they will always be this argument. From the strength of schedule argument, you can go down the list of D1 teams at the beginning of the year and eliminate 50% of them based on their schedule alone, no matter what their record is at the end of the year. It's a sham set up for the big money conferences. That said, yes, UF won the BCS championship, and you really don't need to go into all the reasons why, I know them. duh...
Tell you what, you can have the BCS Championship...Utah won the NCAA D1 championship, hows that??