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[thatguy]

Close but no cigar! The breeds we have today are the result of careful, planned breeding in order to create a dog for a certain job, look, etc. Breeds are not the result of random breeding, they are the result of breeding for specific traits, and careful planning to fix those traits genetically.

Each breed, as opposed to mix or mutt, if mated to one of it's own breed, will have pups that fit the breed type, IE two GSD's that meet the breed standard will result in pups that are unmistakably GSDs. However, if you mate a GSD and a Beagle, all the puppies will be different proportions of each, and if they mate, people will be scratching their heads trying to figure out what's in them... How will you know which will likely be good at ground scent and game tracking, and which will be good for LEO work and chem/LHS detection? Chances are, none of the pups will excel at either. Try taking a LabXGSD and getting a Mondioring title, without having your first 100 attempts resulting in your dog blowing his anal glands in fear and running off the field.

Too many people have forgotten that dogs once not only mooched off of us, but actually contributed their part. Dogs had jobs once upon a time. This is why they were bred for type, why we have dogs like the GSD, Doberman, American Bulldog, Greyhound, Lab, Chessie, Aussie, Border Collie, Chihuahua, JRT... They were bred the way they were so they would excel at specific jobs.

Now we breed purely for aesthetics. Schnoodles? Labradoodles? Puggles? WTF!!! If you want a hypoallergenic dog just get a damned Poodle, they already come in a variety of sizes!! Heck the 'designer' breeds aren't even breeds, because they have no genetic type. What can they do, other than not make you sneeze? Can they hunt? Man track? Herd? Guard? Handler protection? Pull sleds? And can they do so better than established breeds?

Designer 'breeds' only exist to fill wallets. Notice they all have cutesie names? Other than that, they have no purpose. Soon enough, they will fall prey to the same problems as every other breed, once they have been inbred enough or fade from popularity. Then I guess it's one to the next...

As far as limited gene pools being reason to purposefully breed mutts, that's bunk. All that needs to be done is to open lines, diversify by bringing in blood from other parts of the world. You can accomplish the same thing by making the effort to bring a GSD in from Yugoslavia to add to your GSD breeding program as you would by breeding in a Golden Retreiver. The issue of limited genetic individuals only exists in the U.S. , with exception of a very few toy breeds.

Bleh my fingers must be tired I'm typo-ing a lot!

you are a retard. First, i never said the "breeds" we have today were the result of 'random' breeding, just mixing. Second, Poodles, goldens and labs were all bred to be waterfowl hunting dogs. I have a goldendoodle that is the best gundog i have ever owned AND doesn't shed--- seems like a pretty good reason to breed them if you ask me.

 

[pixiegirl]

Bulldogs in England were originally working dogs who drove and caught cattle and guarded their masters' property. At one time, the breed was used in the grueling sport of bull baiting. The American Bulldog has also been used to hunt everything from squirrel to bear, and has been trained to drive cattle and guard stock from predators.

Those were it's ancestors. The breed wasn't recognized till 99 I think.

 

[TurboK9]

Bulldogs in England were originally working dogs who drove and caught cattle and guarded their masters' property. At one time, the breed was used in the grueling sport of bull baiting. The American Bulldog has also been used to hunt everything from squirrel to bear, and has been trained to drive cattle and guard stock from predators.

Beat me to it. Let me add that the American Bulldog is what remains of the English Bulldog prior to the Boehr wars. During the Boehr wars they were used rather... successfully... in combat by the Brits... so successfully that at the end of the war the Parliament decreed that no Bulldog could be over x (i dont remember the exact weight) pounds.... so the breeders, rather than give up what they had done their entire lives, bred them down through selective process, and wallah, little snorting English Bulldogs. Thankfully a good number of them had been shipped to the US.

Today the primary measuring sticks for them as jobs is weight pulling and Bore hunting.

 

[TurboK9]

you are a retard. First, i never said the "breeds" we have today were the result of 'random' breeding, just mixing. Second, Poodles, goldens and labs were all bred to be waterfowl hunting dogs. I have a goldendoodle that is the best gundog i have ever owned AND doesn't shed--- seems like a pretty good reason to breed them if you ask me.

You are an ignorant a## and know squat about dogs and genetics. GoldenDoodles are not exaclty the only designer 'breed', and nobody breeds GoldenDoodles to sell as hunting dogs, unless you are the only one. They breed them as 'pets' to sell to people who want to plunk down top dollar for a dog that is essentially a cutesie named mutt. I challenge you to show a legitimate ad for a GoldenDoodle breeder that advertises them as gun dogs. If you find any, it sure as heck won't be many.

Have you done field trials? How does he hold up against purpose bred dogs? You have no idea, do you? I bet you've never even seen a field trial outside of your TV screen.

 

[TurboK9]

Those were it's ancestors. The breed wasn't recognized till 99 I think.

By who? The AB was recognized by the UKC in 99, but not by the AKC at all.

The UKC claims it is a family guardian, but they are far more popular in weight pulling and bore work. IE you don't find many AB's competing in the protection dog trials, but tons in pulling. Their are better breeds for family protection... the AB does OK though.

 

[pixiegirl]

By who? The AB was recognized by the UKC in 99, but not by the AKC at all.

The UKC claims it is a family guardian, but they are far more popular in weight pulling and bore work. IE you don't find many AB's competing in the protection dog trials, but tons in pulling. Their are better breeds for family protection... the AB does OK though.

By anyone.

 

[thatguy]

You are an ignorant a## and know squat about dogs and genetics. GoldenDoodles are not exaclty the only designer 'breed', and nobody breeds GoldenDoodles to sell as hunting dogs, unless you are the only one. They breed them as 'pets' to sell to people who want to plunk down top dollar for a dog that is essentially a cutesie named mutt. I challenge you to show a legitimate ad for a GoldenDoodle breeder that advertises them as gun dogs. If you find any, it sure as heck won't be many.

Have you done field trials? How does he hold up against purpose bred dogs? You have no idea, do you? I bet you've never even seen a field trial outside of your TV screen.

nobody breeds poodles as hunting dogs either, but they certainly were "designed" for that purpose

how about those bull dogs, i guess people are selling them as bull or hog hunters? labs as gun dogs? ANY shepard as a herding dog.

your stance is ridiculous, these days almost ALL dogs are sold primarily as pets, Seems like breeding the most appropriate "pet" dog certainly has its value.

as for being a good gun dog, i actually hunt. you can have your field trials, i will have the reality they are based on. Additionally, i am sure that if i were to train my dog for field trials she would perform comprably with your purpose breed dogs. Finally, in your purpose breeds the majority of the dogs are held as pets and wouldn't have a clue in either a field trial OR the reality of a hunting situation.

 

[thatguy]

By anyone.

go on pixie

 

[Cowgirl]

nobody breeds poodles as hunting dogs either, but they certainly were "designed" for that purpose

Apparently these people didn't get the memo.

 

[pixiegirl]

go on pixie

I found it funny he used as an example a dog that had been bred for decades with no formal "breed standard". There's also a good bit of contravery as to what they've been bred with or what they really are. There are "experts" that believe ABs and APBTs to be the same thing. Let me rephrase, that ABs are the result of breeding large APBTs. Not the breed I would have used to prove any point about responsible breeding, bloodlines, etc.

 

[Cowgirl]

Apparently these people didn't get the memo.

Or these people.

 

[Cowgirl]

Or these people.

Or these people.

 

[Cowgirl]

Or these people.

Another one.


There are lots more.

 

[TurboK9]

nobody breeds poodles as hunting dogs either, but they certainly were "designed" for that purpose

how about those bull dogs, i guess people are selling them as bull or hog hunters? labs as gun dogs? ANY shepard as a herding dog.

your stance is ridiculous, these days almost ALL dogs are sold primarily as pets, Seems like breeding the most appropriate "pet" dog certainly has its value.

as for being a good gun dog, i actually hunt. you can have your field trials, i will have the reality they are based on. Additionally, i am sure that if i were to train my dog for field trials she would perform comprably with your purpose breed dogs. Finally, in your purpose breeds the majority of the dogs are held as pets and wouldn't have a clue in either a field trial OR the reality of a hunting situation.

The good breeders do sell Bullies as hog dogs, Dobes as guardians, Labs as hunters. No crap almost all dogs are sold as pets. That's what I've been railing against. That is what is destroying the breeds, because of lousy breeding programs by 'pet' breeders who simply pump 'em out without thought. My point to you is that the same think will happen to the designer breeds if things continue as they are. I know I can't change it, but I'm not gonna sit back and just watch it happen either.

As for the ones held as pets not having a clue, I beg to differ. I've adopted a few that were held as pets initially, and even abused to the point of breaking them mentally, and with a little training and the right treatment they bounce right back.

Cases in point... Caber, adopted at 2 years old, from abusive 'pet' home. At age of 4 with less than a years training took 3rd in first protection dog trial. Later served as a security patrol dog, making several 'detentions' and several successful building searches. 4 world championship invitations.
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Harley was adopted after spending the first two years of his life literally stuffed inside a crate. Eric was a Yugoslav import w/ multiple working titles.

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The difference between the three dogs is that Eric took no work at all compared to the other two. He just took to it.

Anyway, I'm not saying that your dog shouldn't have been bred. I'm saying it's lousy that so many breeders breed for the wrong reason. Why you would even argue that...

 

[TurboK9]

I found it funny he used as an example a dog that had been bred for decades with no formal "breed standard". There's also a good bit of contravery as to what they've been bred with or what they really are. There are "experts" that believe ABs and APBTs to be the same thing. Let me rephrase, that ABs are the result of breeding large APBTs. Not the breed I would have used to prove any point about responsible breeding, bloodlines, etc.

What's your point? In the last hundred years several breeds have been recognized, The Dobermann, the GSD, the Malinois... the list is pretty long. Fact is the dog has a type, and fits the same standard their progeny fit in the 1800's. The Presa isn't recognized by the AKC, but has been bred to a standard and type for over a century. So what?

And the fact that APBT's are so commonly bred irresponsibly supports my entire point... Look what it's done to the breed!

 

[happyappygirl]

Too bad that was sarcasm. Dogs in the US would be a lot better off if our breeding programs followed in the footsteps of the German breeders. They have to basically prove the dog is capable of performing it's traditional job, and tend to also insist on a CH. They police themselves, it's not a law... .

PSSSST Hate to tell ya but there is LOTS of willy nilly breeding going on in Germany. Military folks don't have to follow German guidelines. A military person exports a dog/pup an american imports that animal...its then considered as coming from German lines because it does. It has a German export pedigree. Viola! it's a "German Import!"
And if you lived in the country of origin for a breed, would YOU send your best stock out of the country? The good ones cost a bundle and you can bet your sweet bippy, they aren't the BEST ones.
MOST ethical breeders in any country don't let the best go. If it's really THAT good, it stays.
PS Over the years I've imported adult Rotts from England, Russia and Italy. ALL have true quality German dogs in their pedigrees regardless of where they were bred.

 

[vraiblonde]

If you all were serious and REALLY cared about animals, you would petition your Congresscritter to submit a bill saying that all animal purchases/adoptions/etc must be approved by a panel of experts to determine whether the environment would be beneficial to the animal in question.

And that anyone whose animal has an unauthorized litter will face severe penalties. In fact, you could just cut to the chase and make a law that says ALL animals are to be spayed or neutered immediately to prevent unauthorized litters.

Gov. MOM would surely sign it into law, and voila! No more unwanted animals.

Until you take serious action, it's just a bunch of talk talk from people who don't really care.

 

[vraiblonde]

Oh! You know what? You could have a Pet Patrol who goes into each and every home to determine whether there are inappropriate or neglected pets in the house. If there are, the animal gets removed immediately and goes into a shelter, and the owner pays a fine or gets jail time.

 

[kwillia]

Oh! You know what? You could have a Pet Patrol who goes into each and every home to determine whether there are inappropriate or neglected pets in the house. If there are, the animal gets removed immediately and goes into a shelter, and the owner pays a fine or gets jail time.

Oooooh.... Pet Czar.... You should email whitehouse.gov

 

[pixiegirl]

Oh! You know what? You could have a Pet Patrol who goes into each and every home to determine whether there are inappropriate or neglected pets in the house. If there are, the animal gets removed immediately and goes into a shelter, and the owner pays a fine or gets jail time.

I'm afraid I'll be too busy with my duties policing unfit parents to fill this vacancy. Cat maybe?