New Businesses Coming to Southern Maryland

[zar]

I think southern Maryland is getting the same kind of snub PG got for decades. Specifically, being counted out for high end retail. Since that's now changed in PG, they have National Harbor, Wegman's, and several Whole Foods I hope it changes for SMD. There is certainly a market for that kind of product. If nothing else, it's definitely a blue ocean market.

I wouldn't doubt the whole foods/trader joes of the world are reluctant to come because of the ban of allowing groceries to sell alcohol.. lost revenue. Once again maryland fails.. how many other states ban groceries from selling beer? four maybe?

 

[BigBlue]

I wouldn't doubt the whole foods/trader joes of the world are reluctant to come because of the ban of allowing groceries to sell alcohol.. lost revenue. Once again maryland fails.. how many other states ban groceries from selling beer? four maybe?

This , while it might not be the sole reason it is a big one .

 

[somdfunguy]

I wouldn't doubt the whole foods/trader joes of the world are reluctant to come because of the ban of allowing groceries to sell alcohol.. lost revenue. Once again maryland fails.. how many other states ban groceries from selling beer? four maybe?

This , while it might not be the sole reason it is a big one .

I think this is the biggest factor

 

[fatratcat]

A business following a blue ocean marketing strategy in SOMD isn't likely to drown in anything except money. I think the liquor sales issue probably more valid than population. SOMD has more than 350,000 (152k in Chuck, 109k in St. Mary's, & 90k in Clavert) people. All 3 counties have incomes well above the state and national averages.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

A business following a blue ocean marketing strategy in SOMD isn't likely to drown in anything except money. I think the liquor sales issue probably more valid than population. SOMD has more than 350,000 (152k in Chuck, 109k in St. Mary's, & 90k in Clavert) people. All 3 counties have incomes well above the state and national averages.

350K people spread out over how many square miles? Compare that same population (actually double that) and area in northern PG and lower Montgomery Counties. Again, the market density isn't there down here.

For fun, where is the central location you'd put one of your stores. Northern St. Mary's? Waldorf? Lusby? Each one of those locations has issues, whether of distance or access.

 

[fatratcat]

La Plata, or near the 228/301 crossover or on the northern end of Waldorf to ride the coat tails of the new Brandywine retail. Yes, the same retail that many predicted would fail, but the parking lots are jammed full. In fact, I'd describe most of the businesses as "crowded," especially on the weekend.

350K people spread out over how many square miles? Compare that same population (actually double that) and area in northern PG and lower Montgomery Counties. Again, the market density isn't there down here.

For fun, where is the central location you'd put one of your stores. Northern St. Mary's? Waldorf? Lusby? Each one of those locations has issues, whether of distance or access.

 

[fatratcat]

Population density is only one of many market factors, but I'll indulge you. Accordingto the map below, using your singular (albeit myopic) criteria, one would definitely work near Pax River too. However, I think smart business folks look at the much broader picture like income, trend analysis, competitive analysis, etc.

http://planning.maryland.gov/msdc/population_density/popdensity_2010ct3.pdf

350K people spread out over how many square miles? Compare that same population (actually double that) and area in northern PG and lower Montgomery Counties. Again, the market density isn't there down here.

For fun, where is the central location you'd put one of your stores. Northern St. Mary's? Waldorf? Lusby? Each one of those locations has issues, whether of distance or access.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

Population density is only one of many market factors, but I'll indulge you. Accordingto the map below, using your singular (albeit myopic) criteria, one would definitely work near Pax River too. However, I think smart business folks look at the much broader picture like income, trend analysis, competitive analysis, etc.

http://planning.maryland.gov/msdc/population_density/popdensity_2010ct3.pdf

This is rich, you absolutely refuse to look at realities and then have the audacity to call me myopic? Christ, the stupid never stops.

Tell you what, volunteer to work on any of the three Counties' economic development boards and then get back to me.


That experience will inform you on a myriad of subjects from business recruitment to density requirements for any number of businesses to transportation issues.

Hint: don't mention your "blue ocean" theory.

 

[fatratcat]

So, basically you have nothing else? That's it? All it took was the word "myopic?" Ooooh, I see the problem you might have in an executive boardroom.

This is rich, you absolutely refuse to look at realities and then have the audacity to call me myopic? Christ, the stupid never stops.

Tell you what, volunteer to work on any of the three Counties' economic development boards and then get back to me.


That experience will inform you on a myriad of subjects from business recruitment to density requirements for any number of businesses to transportation issues.

Hint: don't mention your "blue ocean" theory.

 

[BigBlue]

Population density is only one of many market factors, but I'll indulge you. Accordingto the map below, using your singular (albeit myopic) criteria, one would definitely work near Pax River too. However, I think smart business folks look at the much broader picture like income, trend analysis, competitive analysis, etc.

http://planning.maryland.gov/msdc/population_density/popdensity_2010ct3.pdf

This is rich, you absolutely refuse to look at realities and then have the audacity to call me myopic? Christ, the stupid never stops.

Tell you what, volunteer to work on any of the three Counties' economic development boards and then get back to me.


That experience will inform you on a myriad of subjects from business recruitment to density requirements for any number of businesses to transportation issues.

Hint: don't mention your "blue ocean" theory.

I can tell you that the business's themselves do look at different factors than the counties do .

 

[somdfunguy]

I can tell you that the business's themselves do look at different factors than the counties do .

yup, whiskey women music and smoke

 

[BernieP]

350K people spread out over how many square miles? Compare that same population (actually double that) and area in northern PG and lower Montgomery Counties. Again, the market density isn't there down here.

For fun, where is the central location you'd put one of your stores. Northern St. Mary's? Waldorf? Lusby? Each one of those locations has issues, whether of distance or access.

This. And I'm tired of hearing about "average income". There is a huge income disparity in at least St. Mary's Co. You have some making well above the average and then you have a lot more making well below. Look at the number of Title 1 students in schools, the kids getting free or reduced lunches.

Verizon doesn't even have the area on the FiOS map because it's not worth their time - population density.
St. Mary's still has the same old third tier cable company, a generation or two behind state of the art - why, because no other company wants the franchise, there just aren't the number of customers to make the improvements profitable.

 

[fatratcat]

If you notice on the map, Brandywine Crossing is built in a low density population area and it's pretty successful. As for FIOs being a gauge of anything, all I can say is "eh?" I've never viewed Verizon products as any kind of indicator of wealth. A side bar, I live in St. Mary's and have X-finity. I think home prices are a better indicator. Attached below is a heat map that shows SOMD doing fairly well, probably above average for the nation. As for St. Mary's being a poor county, I sense some confirmation bias on your part. The lense you view your world through skews what you see to conform with your preconceived notion, despite the facts. What are the facts? According to the 2010 census, Maryland is the richest state in the country. Out of the 24 counties, St. Mary's is the 9th richest with a 2010 median household income of 69k + As for Title 1 kids, having grown up eating more than my fair share of government cheese, I can say those programs are pretty poorly policed. For the record, I'm not for stricter enforcement. I'd rather feed a kid that needs it over playing a stupid game of "gotcha" with 1 that didn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_locations_by_per_capita_income
http://planning.maryland.gov/msdc/population_density/popdensity_2010ct3.pdf
http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/Maryland/Charles_County-heat_map/

This. And I'm tired of hearing about "average income". There is a huge income disparity in at least St. Mary's Co. You have some making well above the average and then you have a lot more making well below. Look at the number of Title 1 students in schools, the kids getting free or reduced lunches.

Verizon doesn't even have the area on the FiOS map because it's not worth their time - population density.
St. Mary's still has the same old third tier cable company, a generation or two behind state of the art - why, because no other company wants the franchise, there just aren't the number of customers to make the improvements profitable.

 

[Beta]

While I appreciate the up dates some of the explanations just don't fly,Wegmans, Whole Foods ,Trade Joe's all have more than efficient distribution to handle a store in Waldorf .Whole foods has a distro center in Landover many others use third party suppliers so that is not a reason ,some just don't want to compete with a Super Walmart ,as you remember it was going to be in LaPlata ,now maybe Waldorf .

So you think Whole Foods doesn't want to compete with Super Walmart?

If Whole Foods avoided Super Walmart then they might as well shut their doors. There's no way that's the reason.

I wouldn't doubt the whole foods/trader joes of the world are reluctant to come because of the ban of allowing groceries to sell alcohol.. lost revenue. Once again maryland fails.. how many other states ban groceries from selling beer? four maybe?

I thought you could have 1 license per franchise per county. If they only put 1 Whole Foods in the area, they could sell beer. It's not like these stores avoid the entire state, because they definitely exist. They only avoid certain parts of the state where projected revenue is lower.

Population density is only one of many market factors, but I'll indulge you. Accordingto the map below, using your singular (albeit myopic) criteria, one would definitely work near Pax River too. However, I think smart business folks look at the much broader picture like income, trend analysis, competitive analysis, etc.

http://planning.maryland.gov/msdc/population_density/popdensity_2010ct3.pdf

They want a specific type of population and population density. Like you pointed out, Pax river is the only area in the tri-county where it probably could make sense (even though it's the "poorest" of the 3 counties). But even then, it may not be enough population (they're ignoring the commuter population that would shop there).

I'm not convinced we have the population to support one of those chains. For every person who says they want a Wegman's, you see a few people who rush to Super Walmart for their every need and wouldn't pay premium prices for food. They probably want either a similar population that's more urban or a larger population that could still support them. I'd like to get a better option out here, but if so many locals doubt they'd succeed, what makes you think an outside observer is going to see things in a more positive light?

 

[fatratcat]

I think Wegmans has the highest probability of success. Trader Joe's runs a close second. As for me being an outsider? I've lived in the county for 23 years. The truth is the "locals" defined as those born in the county are in danger of being outnumbered. St. Mary's is a military county, so I'm guessing the "born here locals" don't havethe power base they like to think they have. I do think they are more vocal on this forum and definitely feeler a greater sense of perceived ownership.

So you think Whole Foods doesn't want to compete with Super Walmart?

If Whole Foods avoided Super Walmart then they might as well shut their doors. There's no way that's the reason.



I thought you could have 1 license per franchise per county. If they only put 1 Whole Foods in the area, they could sell beer. It's not like these stores avoid the entire state, because they definitely exist. They only avoid certain parts of the state where projected revenue is lower.



They want a specific type of population and population density. Like you pointed out, Pax river is the only area in the tri-county where it probably could make sense (even though it's the "poorest" of the 3 counties). But even then, it may not be enough population (they're ignoring the commuter population that would shop there).

I'm not convinced we have the population to support one of those chains. For every person who says they want a Wegman's, you see a few people who rush to Super Walmart for their every need and wouldn't pay premium prices for food. They probably want either a similar population that's more urban or a larger population that could still support them. I'd like to get a better option out here, but if so many locals doubt they'd succeed, what makes you think an outside observer is going to see things in a more positive light?

 

[Beta]

I think Wegmans has the highest probability of success. Trader Joe's runs a close second. As for me being an outsider? I've lived in the county for 23 years. The truth is the "locals" defined as those born in the county are in danger of being outnumbered. St. Mary's is a military county, so I'm guessing the "born here locals" don't havethe power base they like to think they have. I do think they are more vocal on this forum and definitely feeler a greater sense of perceived ownership.

"outside observer" being the chains themselves. If a bunch of people who live here are skeptical, why would a chain believe they could succeed? Probably too risky to be worth their while when there are so many guaranteed markets. I didn't mean to question your "local" or "outsider" status.

 

[migtig]

When I first moved to the area (St Mary's) I was told that the current Shopper's used to be a Whole Foods, but it had failed and the store had sat vacant for quite a while before Shopper's moved in.

If that's true, then I doubt Whole Foods would be willing to come back to this area. :shrug:

 

[BadGirl]

When I first moved to the area (St Mary's) I was told that the current Shopper's used to be a Whole Foods, but it had failed and the store had sat vacant for quite a while before Shopper's moved in.

If that's true, then I doubt Whole Foods would be willing to come back to this area. :shrug:

It was never a Whole Foods. It was another grocery store, but for the moment, my memory fails me. And before a grocery store, it was a junk department store (again, my memory fails me). But there was another grocery store in that shopping center, in the space currently occupied by the gym.

 

[SamSpade]

When I first moved to the area (St Mary's) I was told that the current Shopper's used to be a Whole Foods, but it had failed and the store had sat vacant for quite a while before Shopper's moved in.

If that's true, then I doubt Whole Foods would be willing to come back to this area. :shrug:

IIRC, it was a Super Fresh - and I think the old McKay's in Wildewood was also.
It's a chain that is slowly disappearing, but I kind of miss it.

 

[SamSpade]

It was never a Whole Foods. It was another grocery store, but for the moment, my memory fails me. And before a grocery store, it was a junk department store (again, my memory fails me). But there was another grocery store in that shopping center, in the space currently occupied by the gym.

Harvest Market, and that was MY store, even though I lived in Lusby at the time and there were closer stores.