NY: Homosexuals Win but Society Loses

[This_person]

You REALLY don't get it do you, it becomes a big issue because they have to have one in the first place; I don't!

So do non-married couples. So do group relationships. So do people who are not in a relationship, but need someone to deal with these issues for them.

You're just not making a point - that's all I'm saying. You're narrowing in on one issue for one group of people without recognizing that they are not the only people who face these issues. And, there's no reason to change the law in that argument.

Easy fix, redefine ALL marriages as "civil unions" an include homosexuals like you agreed would be the best 'fix'.

No, I said I'd be more for that than re-defining a word.

Either way, where do you draw the line? Does it stop at this, or could several people "marry"? How about incestuous couples/groups? Does the age requirement get neglected as well?

Guardian-ship is contested and it becomes a big issues because they have to have all these easily contested documents when I don't. If I die (and we had kids) they would automatically go to my husband, no issues (unless he was unfit...obviously).

You mean, someone could contest whether he was fit?

What if you weren't married, could he get the kids then? What if there's a question of parenthood? What if your kids' step-dad had them 99% of their life, and even if the dad's a great guy, the step-dad thinks the kids deserve to stay with him?

Easy fix, redefine ALL marriages as "civil unions" an include homosexuals like you agreed would be the best 'fix'.

No, I said I'd be more for that than re-defining a word.

Either way, where do you draw the line? Does it stop at this, or could several people "marry"? How about incestuous couples/groups? Does the age requirement get neglected as well?

Didn't you get on another forumite for making claims and not providing proof before?

Again, point is that my husband has health insurance provided by his employer and I am covered on it with a click of a button on-line. Homosexual couples (according to you) have to hunt around and buy their own if they're lucky enough to find it, incurring the full burden of the cost when I don't.

No, I said some companies offer it, and some don't. Just like health insurance at all, some offer it, some don't. There is no law in effect (yet) that mandates a company supply health care to ANYONE, regardless of relationship situation or whether the government has been asked to recognize that relationship.

Try some of the big utilities in the area, they all offer it.

Easy fix, redefine ALL marriages as "civil unions" an include homosexuals like you agreed would be the best 'fix'.

No, I said I'd be more for that than re-defining a word.

Either way, where do you draw the line? Does it stop at this, or could several people "marry"? How about incestuous couples/groups? Does the age requirement get neglected as well?

 

[This_person]

Seriously??? Are you equating visiting a loved one on their potential death bed a CONVENIENCE??!!

No, because whether you're recognized by the state as married or not does not prevent you from being prepared. The preparation involved is the convenience factor.

 

[bcp]

There is not logical argument against redefining ALL marriages as civil unions...whatever it takes to shut the conservatives up Not my problem if it's not good enough because my argument is about equality and that would be equal

I don't know the details of the issues they had in CA over this, maybe there wasn't true 100% equality between a homosexual and a heterosexual 'union'/'marriage'/whatever...like I said, I'm not willing to weigh in on this, I'm not going to defend anything just because they're 'liberals' as I am not one and quite honestly, I don't feel like doing the research right now so get off it...

Yes there is.
I am married to my wife, we dont have a civil union (at sometimes what we have is not civil)
There is no need to down grade our marriage to appease the ******s.

 

[UNA]

So do non-married couples. So do group relationships. So do people who are not in a relationship, but need someone to deal with these issues for them.

You're just not making a point - that's all I'm saying. You're narrowing in on one issue for one group of people without recognizing that they are not the only people who face these issues. And, there's no reason to change the law in that argument.

You mean, someone could contest whether he was fit?

What if you weren't married, could he get the kids then? What if there's a question of parenthood? What if your kids' step-dad had them 99% of their life, and even if the dad's a great guy, the step-dad thinks the kids deserve to stay with him?

No, I said some companies offer it, and some don't. Just like health insurance at all, some offer it, some don't. There is no law in effect (yet) that mandates a company supply health care to ANYONE, regardless of relationship situation or whether the government has been asked to recognize that relationship.

Try some of the big utilities in the area, they all offer it.

The point is that it is NOT equality like some claim it is. Why shouldn't committed gay couples have the same recognition? Someone in here said once (may have been you, IDK and IDC) that if there isn't a good reason to change/make a law then we shouldn't...well what is the good reason for DOMA? I've listed what many people consider 'good reason' for states to redefine the state recognized unions between married heterosexuals, I've spent many-a-thread defending equality...so why SHOULDN'T they be legally recognized as equal?

No, I said I'd be more for that than re-defining a word.

Either way, where do you draw the line? Does it stop at this, or could several people "marry"? How about incestuous couples/groups? Does the age requirement get neglected as well?

Right there...simple...parties have to be of the age of legal consent. Period. It's - quite honestly - not my problem if upon legally recognizing gay marriage other groups start yelling. Just because you may thing gay marriage is icky doesn't mean all 'icky' forms of marriage will then ensue...

 

[UNA]

No, because whether you're recognized by the state as married or not does not prevent you from being prepared. The preparation involved is the convenience factor.

So when a gay couple gets into a car accident and one has is dying...the other wants to visit him...someone has to make a decision to pull a plug...you're fine with telling them they 'should have been prepared, you can't visit your dying partner because you forgot a form' or 'should have been prepared, no one is here to make a life or death decision so your loved one is going to suffer alone because you forgot a form'?

wow...

 

[UNA]

Yes there is.
I am married to my wife, we dont have a civil union (at sometimes what we have is not civil)
There is no need to down grade our marriage to appease the ******s.

1. How is it a down grade?
2. There was no need to down grade marriage to appease n#####s either...

(I obviously don't agree with my second point...I reeeaaally don't like using that word...I used a crude word to make a point...you probably missed it...)

 

[Merlin99]

So when a gay couple gets into a car accident and one has is dying...the other wants to visit him...someone has to make a decision to pull a plug...you're fine with telling them they 'should have been prepared, you can't visit your dying partner because you forgot a form' or 'should have been prepared, no one is here to make a life or death decision so your loved one is going to suffer alone because you forgot a form'?

wow...

This particular story always got my attention.

 

[bcp]

1. How is it a down grade?
2. There was no need to down grade marriage to appease n#####s either...

(I obviously don't agree with my second point...I reeeaaally don't like using that word...I used a crude word to make a point...you probably missed it...)

You can say what you want, but for you to write such a vile thing, it in all honesty must come from some real feelings on your part.

And if all marriages were suddenly considered civil unions, it would be a downgrade and open to even more regulation from government.
Im married, I am not a partner in a civil union.

 

[UNA]

Wirelessly posted

So when a gay couple gets into a car accident and one has is dying...the other wants to visit him...someone has to make a decision to pull a plug...you're fine with telling them they 'should have been prepared, you can't visit your dying partner because you forgot a form' or 'should have been prepared, no one is here to make a life or death decision so your loved one is going to suffer alone because you forgot a form'?

wow...

This particular story always got my attention.

It happened to a family member of mine; they actually WERE prepared but my family member STILL played hell getting back to see his partner of more than 30 years! After a negative AIDS test he did finally get in! And his parner has no family other than us so he was alone...very sad, i would have been so afraid. He's fine now though

 

[bcp]

So when a gay couple gets into a car accident and one has is dying...the other wants to visit him...someone has to make a decision to pull a plug...you're fine with telling them they 'should have been prepared, you can't visit your dying partner because you forgot a form' or 'should have been prepared, no one is here to make a life or death decision so your loved one is going to suffer alone because you forgot a form'?

wow...

When a married couple in in the same situation, it also requires the spouse to prove they are the actual spouse, in the case of a living will, the surviving spouse is not usually able to change what was written/requested.

 

[UNA]

Wirelessly posted

1. How is it a down grade?
2. There was no need to down grade marriage to appease n#####s either...

(I obviously don't agree with my second point...I reeeaaally don't like using that word...I used a crude word to make a point...you probably missed it...)

You can say what you want, but for you to write such a vile thing, it in all honesty must come from some real feelings on your part.

And if all marriages were suddenly considered civil unions, it would be a downgrade and open to even more regulation from government.
Im married, I am not a partner in a civil union.

Don't you dare project you're own prejudices onto me. I 'wrote' that word to make a point WRT the similarly vile word you used which (as I thought you would) you obviously missed.

 

[UNA]

Wirelessly posted

So when a gay couple gets into a car accident and one has is dying...the other wants to visit him...someone has to make a decision to pull a plug...you're fine with telling them they 'should have been prepared, you can't visit your dying partner because you forgot a form' or 'should have been prepared, no one is here to make a life or death decision so your loved one is going to suffer alone because you forgot a form'?

wow...

When a married couple in in the same situation, it also requires the spouse to prove they are the actual spouse, in the case of a living will, the surviving spouse is not usually able to change what was written/requested.

Funny, I've never had to prove anything to visit my husband and neither has my mother...and living will ARE contested all the time, google it...I neither have the time nor energy to explain it to you as I'm sure it would take a minimum of 2 pages.

 

[bcp]

Wirelessly posted



Don't you dare project you're own prejudices onto me. I 'wrote' that word to make a point WRT the similarly vile word you used which (as I thought you would) you obviously missed.

I have repeatedly asked you to explain how inter racial marriage could be equated to gays wanting to be married, You continue to bring it up as if there is something wrong with it.

I think that you actually do find it repulsive in some way, and personally, I find your constant reference to it as if it were wrong, rather offensive.

I didnt project anything on you, with your constant posting in this matter, you have clearly made the point on your own.

Seek help.

 

[bcp]

Wirelessly posted



Funny, I've never had to prove anything to visit my husband and neither has my mother...and living will ARE contested all the time, google it...I neither have the time nor energy to explain it to you as I'm sure it would take a minimum of 2 pages.

Do you actually read what anyone writes?

You know what? when I was in the hospital after my back surgery, I actually had friends come in and visit me. A couple were even the same sex as I am.. Im pretty sure they did not have to prove anything to anyone. So I fail to see what the issue is here

 

[drivingdaisy]

I'm always amazed about how people get so upset over something that doesn't really affect them. If you don't believe in homosexual marriage, fine. Don't participate and teach your children what you believe, but stop trying to convince everyone that your belief is correct.

I think that homosexuals should be allowed to get married legally. It seems silly that the US would even have a law/prevent people who are in love or want to get married from doing so. I mean really how is a government supposed to decide what is love or define someone's idea of a partnership.

On the other hand, I believe it is each religion's right to allow or not allow is since they have a set of beliefs that make their particular religion what it is.

And as for children are better off with a mom and a dad argument... well maybe that's true but I think that lots of people turn out more than ok who have only had 1 parent, no parents, or 2 moms or 2 dads. A loving home is a loving home.

 

[bcp]

I'm always amazed about how people get so upset over something that doesn't really affect them. If you don't believe in homosexual marriage, fine. Don't participate and teach your children what you believe, but stop trying to convince everyone that your belief is correct.

I think that homosexuals should be allowed to get married legally. It seems silly that the US would even have a law/prevent people who are in love or want to get married from doing so. I mean really how is a government supposed to decide what is love or define someone's idea of a partnership.

On the other hand, I believe it is each religion's right to allow or not allow is since they have a set of beliefs that make their particular religion what it is.

And as for children are better off with a mom and a dad argument... well maybe that's true but I think that lots of people turn out more than ok who have only had 1 parent, no parents, or 2 moms or 2 dads. A loving home is a loving home.

How does my resistance to gay marriage affect you personally?
does your whole post here basically request that your thoughts on the matter should be the respected thoughts?

Maybe some people just naturally find the thought of two guys kissing over dinner in public revolting, on the same level as watching someone eat buggers while seated at the restaurant. Are you suggesting that these people just get over it?

If one can be born attracted to the gay lifestyle, Im pretty sure its not that far of a stretch to say one can be born equally unattracted to it.

 

[UNA]

Wirelessly posted

Wirelessly posted



Don't you dare project you're own prejudices onto me. I 'wrote' that word to make a point WRT the similarly vile word you used which (as I thought you would) you obviously missed.

I have repeatedly asked you to explain how inter racial marriage could be equated to gays wanting to be married, You continue to bring it up as if there is something wrong with it.

I think that you actually do find it repulsive in some way, and personally, I find your constant reference to it as if it were wrong, rather offensive.

I didnt project anything on you, with your constant posting in this matter, you have clearly made the point on your own.

Seek help.

I've addressed your question on the matter repeatedly. Your accusations seem to br a last ditch effort to make yourself out to be some kind of victim in this discussion and you should be a bit embarrassed that you've stooped to this level. My equating inter racial marriage equality to gay marriage equality does not brand me a racist no matter how hard you try. Sorry. :shrug:

 

[UNA]

Wirelessly posted

Wirelessly posted



Funny, I've never had to prove anything to visit my husband and neither has my mother...and living will ARE contested all the time, google it...I neither have the time nor energy to explain it to you as I'm sure it would take a minimum of 2 pages.

Do you actually read what anyone writes?

You know what? when I was in the hospital after my back surgery, I actually had friends come in and visit me. A couple were even the same sex as I am.. Im pretty sure they did not have to prove anything to anyone. So I fail to see what the issue is here

I don't really care what happened in your situation. I know what happened in my family's situation and it wasn right. If you are OK with how the situation was handled than just say so...

 

[UNA]

Wirelessly posted

I'm always amazed about how people get so upset over something that doesn't really affect them. If you don't believe in homosexual marriage, fine. Don't participate and teach your children what you believe, but stop trying to convince everyone that your belief is correct.

I think that homosexuals should be allowed to get married legally. It seems silly that the US would even have a law/prevent people who are in love or want to get married from doing so. I mean really how is a government supposed to decide what is love or define someone's idea of a partnership.

On the other hand, I believe it is each religion's right to allow or not allow is since they have a set of beliefs that make their particular religion what it is.

And as for children are better off with a mom and a dad argument... well maybe that's true but I think that lots of people turn out more than ok who have only had 1 parent, no parents, or 2 moms or 2 dads. A loving home is a loving home.

 

[UNA]

Wirelessly posted

I'm always amazed about how people get so upset over something that doesn't really affect them. If you don't believe in homosexual marriage, fine. Don't participate and teach your children what you believe, but stop trying to convince everyone that your belief is correct.

I think that homosexuals should be allowed to get married legally. It seems silly that the US would even have a law/prevent people who are in love or want to get married from doing so. I mean really how is a government supposed to decide what is love or define someone's idea of a partnership.

On the other hand, I believe it is each religion's right to allow or not allow is since they have a set of beliefs that make their particular religion what it is.

And as for children are better off with a mom and a dad argument... well maybe that's true but I think that lots of people turn out more than ok who have only had 1 parent, no parents, or 2 moms or 2 dads. A loving home is a loving home.

How does my resistance to gay marriage affect you personally?
does your whole post here basically request that your thoughts on the matter should be the respected thoughts?

Maybe some people just naturally find the thought of two guys kissing over dinner in public revolting, on the same level as watching someone eat buggers while seated at the restaurant. Are you suggesting that these people just get over it?

If one can be born attracted to the gay lifestyle, Im pretty sure its not that far of a stretch to say one can be born equally unattracted to it.

No one cares what you find icky, I personally don't like seeing HETERO couples kiss over dinner; should we also not recognize hetero unions?