Obama and Islam...

[Larry Gude]

...

It seems pretty clear, even from cursory searching around, Barrack is not being forthright about his religious history; he has not always been a Christian. It seems pretty clear he was born Muslim, at least went to Islamic schooling for awhile and converted later on, before becoming an adult.

The question is, does it matter?

The first indication that it does comes from Obama himself in the form of the way he has handled questions about this. In his typical style about pretty much any issue, he talks an awful lot without saying much. The man does NOT like being thought of as a man with principles that he defends to the end. Unless it's his pastor. In short, he acts like a person who is uncomfortable with just saying what something is and then moving on from there. Call it the 'candor' factor.

Now, setting aside his own view that there is something to hide, or at least be uncomfortable with, about his Islamic beginnings, should it matter to we, the people, in terms of becoming president?

This is the most interesting and insightful (as opposed to incite-ful) piece I've read yet about this.

Was Barack Obama a Muslim? - article by Daniel Pipes

This, to me, is the truly intriguing aspect of this whole thing;

On the positive side, were Obama prominently charged with apostasy, that would uniquely raise the issue of a Muslim's right to change religion, taking a topic on the perpetual back-burner and placing it front and center, perhaps to the great future benefit of those Muslims who seek to declare themselves atheists or to convert to another religion.

So, any interest in discussing this?

 

[vraiblonde]

So, any interest in discussing this?

Two things that make me care about Obama's Muslim past:

1. We're in a war against Muslim fundies - electing a Muslim (even a former one) sends the wrong message. They have made no bones about wanting to conquer and convert the Evil West. What better start than to have one of their own as our President?

2. He won't just simply say, "Yes, I was raised as a Muslim and later converted to Christianity." The reason he won't is because he knows it would capsize his candidacy. That part I understand. The part I don't understand is his arrogance and stupidity in not realizing it would come out and make him look like a lying schmuck.

Another problem with Obama is his Black Power religious affiliations. Did he serve time in prison? Because he has the theological resume of a con.

 

[chernmax]

I couldn't give a rats a$$ if he ever were a muslim, just don't be a freakin liar and keep changing your story!!!

 

[Vince]

If he went to a Muslim school at a very young age then he is still a Muslim. He can spout how he's converted all he wants, I don't believe it for a minute. They are brainwashed at a very young age to hate and kill the infidels. That's us. With all his actions, or non actions, towards the flag, brings his allegiance into question. Don't even want this ***hole in the White House. He can't be trusted.

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

If he went to a Muslim school at a very young age then he is still a Muslim. He can spout how he's converted all he wants, I don't believe it for a minute. They are brainwashed at a very young age to hate and kill the infidels. That's us. With all his actions, or non actions, towards the flag, brings his allegiance into question. Don't even want this ***hole in the White House. He can't be trusted.

You people are cracking me up today.

 

[Vince]

You people are cracking me up today.

And how did I know I would hear this from you. If you want to believe Obama and all he says, or should I say, "doesn't say" you are welcome to do so. I don't trust him and don't believe him, but then I'm only one vote out of many.

Oh and Andy, if you don't think that the kids are taught that in Muslim schools, you'd better wake up.

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

And how did I know I would hear this from you. If you want to believe Obama and all he says, or should I say, "doesn't say" you are welcome to do so. I don't trust him and don't believe him, but then I'm only one vote out of many.

For the 90,000th time, I don't like Obama. I think he's a classic Marxist.

But an evil muslim terrorist he is not.

Everyday I say people can't get any dumber. Then, I read what you, chernmax, Dork, RadioPatrol, and t_p post.

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

Oh and Andy, if you don't think that the kids are taught that in Muslim schools, you'd better wake up.

Yep, because Islam is an EVIL religion and EVERY SINGLE Muslim is out to destroy America.



You guys are, without doubt, THE most intolerant people I have ever communicated with.

 

[Vince]

Yep, because Islam is an EVIL religion and EVERY SINGLE Muslim is out to destroy America.



You guys are, without doubt, THE most intolerant people I have ever communicated with.

I don't think every single Muslim is out to destroy America. Never said any such thing, but I don't trust Obama and I've said so numerous times. And what is it that you have trouble believing? You don't think the Muslims brainwash children at that young of an age? If you don't, you'd better get out into the world a little more.

 

[tiny_dancer33]

...People go to Catholic school who aren't Catholic, don't they? I'm not Episcopal and I used to attend Episcopal school. But it has nothing to do with my actual denomination. Indonesia is one of the most predominately Muslim countries in the world; I bet it'd be difficult to find a non-Islamic-run school for him to attend while he was living there. I'm not really sure how people are using Obama's kindergarten's religious affiliation to add to the list of reasons he must be a Muslim.

 

[Vince]

...People go to Catholic school who aren't Catholic, don't they? I'm not Episcopal and I used to attend Episcopal school. But it has nothing to do with my actual denomination. Indonesia is one of the most predominately Muslim countries in the world; I bet it'd be difficult to find a non-Islamic-run school for him to attend while he was living there. I'm not really sure how people are using Obama's kindergarten's religious affiliation to add to the list of reasons he must be a Muslim.

No they don't. If you're not Catholic or not ready to convert to Catholicism, you cannot attend Catholic school. At least not any Catholic school I know of. Catholic church, yeah, they'll welcome all, but you cannot receive communion if you're not Catholic and haven't received the other Sacrements.

 

[GSXR_MOE]

...

It seems pretty clear, even from cursory searching around, Barrack is not being forthright about his religious history; he has not always been a Christian. It seems pretty clear he was born Muslim, at least went to Islamic schooling for awhile and converted later on, before becoming an adult.

The question is, does it matter?

The first indication that it does comes from Obama himself in the form of the way he has handled questions about this. In his typical style about pretty much any issue, he talks an awful lot without saying much. The man does NOT like being thought of as a man with principles that he defends to the end. Unless it's his pastor. In short, he acts like a person who is uncomfortable with just saying what something is and then moving on from there. Call it the 'candor' factor.

Now, setting aside his own view that there is something to hide, or at least be uncomfortable with, about his Islamic beginnings, should it matter to we, the people, in terms of becoming president?

This is the most interesting and insightful (as opposed to incite-ful) piece I've read yet about this.

Was Barack Obama a Muslim? - article by Daniel Pipes

This, to me, is the truly intriguing aspect of this whole thing;



So, any interest in discussing this?

Come on people, the horse is dead!!!!

Either you believe him or not, for some it really is a none issue...

But I swear we have been down this road several times..

 

[kwillia]

No they don't. If you're not Catholic or not ready to convert to Catholicism, you cannot attend Catholic school. At least not any Catholic school I know of. Catholic church, yeah, they'll welcome all, but you cannot receive communion if you're not Catholic and haven't received the other Sacrements.

I understand exactly what she was trying to say. I was born into the Catholic religion. Went through CCD and all, but am no longer a practicing Catholic. But by that same token, I am still considered to be Catholic in the eyes of the general public.

 

[Vince]

I understand exactly what she was trying to say. I was born into the Catholic religion. Went through CCD and all, but am no longer a practicing Catholic. But by that same token, I am still considered to be Catholic in the eyes of the general public.

I'm still a practicing Catholic and she said what she meant. And the answer is still the same. If she's trying to convey something different than she needs to be more clear. Of course they can lie and say they're Catholic and be accepted into Catholic School. I'm still thinking that the school would want proof of First Holy Communion, Confirmation, etc. Oh, BTW, I do understand what she was trying to say about Obama.

 

[Larry Gude]

You are...

Come on people, the horse is dead!!!!

Either you believe him or not, for some it really is a none issue...

But I swear we have been down this road several times..

...the perfect Obama voter; don't want to have an actual conversation about anything. Are you so blinded by the sparkling baubles of 'change' and 'hope' that you don't even see the tantalizing possibilities in this;

On the positive side, were Obama prominently charged with apostasy, that would uniquely raise the issue of a Muslim's right to change religion, taking a topic on the perpetual back-burner and placing it front and center, perhaps to the great future benefit of those Muslims who seek to declare themselves atheists or to convert to another religion.

You Obamaphiles are noteworthy for your complete lack of interest in knowing what you actually support or why and if that's not the case, then your total fear of discussing it.

 

[Vince]

...the perfect Obama voter; don't want to have an actual conversation about anything. Are you so blinded by the sparkling baubles of 'change' and 'hope' that you don't even see the tantalizing possibilities in this;



You Obamaphiles are noteworthy for your complete lack of interest in knowing what you actually support or why and if that's not the case, then your total fear of discussing it.

I give up Larry. Loved the part about the "perfect Obama voter."

 

[GSXR_MOE]

...the perfect Obama voter; don't want to have an actual conversation about anything. Are you so blinded by the sparkling baubles of 'change' and 'hope' that you don't even see the tantalizing possibilities in this;



You Obamaphiles are noteworthy for your complete lack of interest in knowing what you actually support or why and if that's not the case, then your total fear of discussing it.

Like I said before......FOR ME. This is a none issue... Its kinda like saying Obama is left handed, or he was raised in Hawaii..... Its really a none issue for ME...

Like Clinton or Bush's religous didn't matter to me.....

I'm all for separation between Church and State.... so a once again, a NONE issue for me...

 

[tiny_dancer33]

I'm still a practicing Catholic and she said what she meant. And the answer is still the same. If she's trying to convey something different than she needs to be more clear. Of course they can lie and say they're Catholic and be accepted into Catholic School. I'm still thinking that the school would want proof of First Holy Communion, Confirmation, etc. Oh, BTW, I do understand what she was trying to say about Obama.

Both my sister and I were accepted to a very good Catholic school (ended up not going, though) and they never asked for proof of anything related to our worship studies. You're right about Communion, I'm sure, but the Catholic schools I've come into contact with I don't think are as strict. I have a couple Jewish friends who attend an all-girls Catholic high school because it's a good school, not for their faith. Maybe those schools are more lax, though.

Anyway, I digress. I'm just saying that claiming Obama is Muslim because he attended an Islamic-run school is like saying that I'm a practicing Episcopal because I attended Episcopalian middle school and served as an acolyte at Wednesday morning chapel at school. *shrug*

I do agree with you that he shouldn't worry what people think about his religious history and just get it all out in the open, because I agree, I think it breeds more suspicion of his religious affiliations, past and present, if he doesn't discuss it. But I also don't think that the schools someone attended between the ages of six and ten should brand their spiritual identity years later.

(Obama also attended Catholic private school while he was Indonesia, btw.)

 

[Larry Gude]

Well...

I give up Larry. Loved the part about the "perfect Obama voter."

...it's like they're all freaking morons who honestly don't have a clue what they are supporting.

Consider; If Obama was born Muslim and he did change, a HUGE no no in Islam, especially for an adult, and it becomes more of an accepted thing because of him, then there truly is hope, worldwide, for over a billion Muslims, to break the chains of their oppressive faith if they choose to do so. This will set the ultimate precedent that the ultimate nation of freedom is lead by a person who walked away from Islam and made it to the top. This knocks the stuffing's out of fundamentalists like Osama and all the hard core of the faith who think you shouldn't be able to leave Islam, ever.

I mean, I can make a case that his election, him winning, will do more to signal the end of the fundamentalist Islamic worldview than invading Iraq ever could. All the stupid hippies aren't going to suddenly allow him to pass one single article of Islamic faith. They won't even do the simple things Christianity requires. They're not about to do something for a God that actually requires discipline and effort AND curtailing the party.

We've invaded Iraq to try and kill the fundamentalist aspects of Islam by exporting Western liberalism. How much better would it be to have a freaking convert as our potus AND continue the exportation of our liberalism, which he WILL have to do?

 

[Larry Gude]

Then...

Like I said before......FOR ME. This is a none issue... Its kinda like saying Obama is left handed, or he was raised in Hawaii..... Its really a none issue for ME...

Like Clinton or Bush's religous didn't matter to me.....

I'm all for separation between Church and State.... so a once again, a NONE issue for me...

...you're a dope. The biggest issue in the world today is fundamentalist Islam. Not the self centered faith of AlGore. Not American Idle. Islam, terror, WMD's, the future.

You're guy might hold the key to solving it for all of us and you have no idea nor even care.