"Obama would have handled COVID better"

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
That's just the verified count, actual count is much higher.
For the sake of consistency I’m only using the one set of numbers.

I see that the infection count curve second derivative is still slightly positive but the death count curve second derivative finally went to zero or slightly negative today. Could be just a kink in the curve ....or an indication that the trajectory is changing. We’ll see tomorrow.
 
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vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
I question these numbers because there are reports of people dying from their "underlying condition" but because they also tested positive for COVID they are being categorized as that being cause of death.

I'll see if I can find the story of the man who was in the hospital dying of cancer when all this went down, and was categorized as a COVID death when he finally went.....
 
I question these numbers because there are reports of people dying from their "underlying condition" but because they also tested positive for COVID they are being categorized as that being cause of death.

I'll see if I can find the story of the man who was in the hospital dying of cancer when all this went down, and was categorized as a COVID death when he finally went.....
I believe it. I can see it being reasonable when it is a case of someone successfully fighting something or living with a chronic condition, but then getting COVID19 and the extreme fever causes convulsions/death and/or the gook in the lungs preventing them from breathing.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
I believe it. I can see it being reasonable when it is a case of someone successfully fighting something or living with a chronic condition, but then getting COVID19 and the extreme fever causes convulsions/death and/or the gook in the lungs preventing them from breathing.
What would be nice is if we could get legitimate information instead of politicized garbage.
 
Reactions: BOP

Kyle

Having a Beer while the world burns!
PREMO Member
Covid killed a scrapping, fit, 35 year old construction worker in the city yesterday.

He was in great health, no underlying medical conditions, no risk factors of any kind when tragically he crossed the street to read a COVID-19 poster that was put up on the wall next to a Deli and a city bus hit him.
 
What would be nice is if we could get legitimate information instead of politicized garbage.
I haven't done this before now because of the whacked word wars I've been watching on the forums.... I'm not doing this for any purpose other than to give insight as to some of the input I used to reach my conclusions. Here is the direct words from a nephew in the medic field in Columbia, MD when I was messaging with him yesterday:

HIM: It really is as bad as it sounds. Some places have it worse than others. We in MD are projected to peak currently around the beginning of May so we are very much on the upswing
If people stop social distancing that will make it worse. It’s the beginning of May now because of the social distancing. People just need to stay put and truly listen
It’s new times for everyone and sadly not keeping to ourselves will only make this worse
Bluntly, this thing sucks and is going to kill a lot of people. A lot of people that can normally fight off the “flu”
This isn’t the flu and needs to be respected for what it is. Our lives will forever be changed by this. We are talking months before we even begin to get to “normal” again

ME: Exactly the conclusion I reached, but a friend of mine thinks I am crazy. I received same answer a while ago from a 24 yr old family friend who is a nurse at St. Mary's she said her unit of 30 beds is now at 100% capacity all positive COVID19.
Thanks for your honesty.

HIM: Yea. It’s sad that people won’t actually believe science and just believe whatever

ME: I've been preaching the math and science is very simple and doesn't lie.

HIM: Exactly. This disease is such basic biology it isn’t funny. Heck kids learn about spreading germs in 1st grade and how to stop the spread
This is a little more intense ensues of the no immunity thing and it’s a dangerous bug
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
We need to expose ourselves and trigger our immune system.
I've thought about this. I actually thought that maybe I ought to get this now, while I'm healthy and able to combat it, than face this when I'm in my 70s and likely will die from it. It very-well may be we're doing ourselves more harm than good avoiding this, generally speaking. I would never expose my mom - who is 83 with late-stage dementia - to this; but am I willing to go through a couple weeks of illness to immunize myself from it for the rest of my life? I might be.

On the other hand, it could be like the flu, where it mutates into various strains that my immune system hasn't battled yet. COVID is far more infectious than the flu, and far more deadly. I'm not sure I would want to face this every winter. Of course, now that it's here, this may be a fact of life here on out.

These aren't easy decisions on a personal level and on a national level. But, I am mostly with you that the hysteria may turn out to be more damaging than the virus itself. If folks paid close attention to Gov Cuomo he said something that disturbed me: "“I don’t think we get back to normal, I think we get to a new normal.” Is the new normal that our government gets a stranglehold on the people whenever they deem a crisis arises? What did he really mean about "new normal". What I heard is "fundamentally transform this country".
 

Kyle

Having a Beer while the world burns!
PREMO Member
I've thought about this. I actually thought that maybe I ought to get this now, while I'm healthy and able to combat it, than face this when I'm in my 70s and likely will die from it. It very-well may be we're doing ourselves more harm than good avoiding this, generally speaking.

:yay: :yay: :yay:
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
I haven't done this before now because of the whacked word wars I've been watching on the forums.... I'm not doing this for any purpose other than to give insight as to some of the input I used to reach my conclusions. Here is the direct words from a nephew in the medic field in Columbia, MD when I was messaging with him yesterday:

HIM: It really is as bad as it sounds. Some places have it worse than others. We in MD are projected to peak currently around the beginning of May so we are very much on the upswing
If people stop social distancing that will make it worse. It’s the beginning of May now because of the social distancing. People just need to stay put and truly listen
It’s new times for everyone and sadly not keeping to ourselves will only make this worse
Bluntly, this thing sucks and is going to kill a lot of people. A lot of people that can normally fight off the “flu”
This isn’t the flu and needs to be respected for what it is. Our lives will forever be changed by this. We are talking months before we even begin to get to “normal” again

ME: Exactly the conclusion I reached, but a friend of mine thinks I am crazy. I received same answer a while ago from a 24 yr old family friend who is a nurse at St. Mary's she said her unit of 30 beds is now at 100% capacity all positive COVID19.
Thanks for your honesty.

HIM: Yea. It’s sad that people won’t actually believe science and just believe whatever

ME: I've been preaching the math and science is very simple and doesn't lie.

HIM: Exactly. This disease is such basic biology it isn’t funny. Heck kids learn about spreading germs in 1st grade and how to stop the spread
This is a little more intense ensues of the no immunity thing and it’s a dangerous bug
Okay, so what do we do when this pops back up next winter? Do you believe this is just going to go away forever? Will there really be a vaccine that prevents everyone from ever getting this? The flu "vaccine" doesn't do $h!t to prevent the flu. I've had the shot and still got the flu. I know, it mutates to a different strains. Well, what if corona mutates to a different strain that some vaccine can't hit?

We can't keep putting our country into quarantine every time a medical crisis arises. Our economy, personal finances, and mental stability won't be able to sustain it. And, I don't think Americans will stand for interminable government control.
 
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Kyle

Having a Beer while the world burns!
PREMO Member
Okay, so what do we do when this pops back up next winter? Do you believe this is just going to go away forever?
No one is considering that because they've succumbed to the fear being amped up by media and politicians.
 
Okay, so what do we do when this pops back up next winter? Do you believe this is just going to go away forever? Will there really be a vaccine this prevents everyone from ever getting this? The flu "vaccine" doesn't do $h!t to prevent the flu. I've had the shot and still got the flu. I know, it mutated to a different strain. Well, what if corona mutates to a different strain that some vaccine can't hit?

We can't keep putting our country into quarantine every time a medical crisis arises. Our economy, personal finances, and mental stability won't be able to sustain it. And, I don't think Americans will stand for interminable government control.
I think America was not prepared. The State/County/City levels did not follow their disaster plans keeping a steady level of inventory, practicing/enforcing precautions and procedures until it was too late. I think that most individuals have done the same... not paying yourself first (putting money in savings), falling into the want it now/get it now trap leaving them without when the get it now is disrupted, washing hands the right way as often as we should if they even do it at all, etc. but I think even the doubting Thomas's attention has been 'got' and we are all coming to the conclusion we must look out for ours and ourselves because its not true that when the crap hits the fan, the government can fix us all. We will be smarter in the fall.

Most importantly, it really has been a matter of weeks and the medical and scientific community is successfully finalizing medicinal trials, getting more realistic data from Europe that WAS NOT received by China when they came out of the gate. When people get chosen to be hospitalized it is most often times because they require equipment that will help them live while their body fights it off. Supplies are getting better now, more beds are becoming available, medical staff is wiser, etc. All of that will be a huge plus when it comes around again.

Just yesterday I heard them announce they believe we have a way to test for antibodies from COVID19. That will be huge in determining who is not going to be threatened in the fall when now we know that only once you've been exposed do you start to develop the antibodies and no one really knows their level of exposure yet.

It's a time game right now... just kicking the can down the road allows time to be better prepared later.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
HIM: It really is as bad as it sounds.
See, this is where we part ways. Some people think it "sounds bad"; others (like me) are going, "What am I looking at here?"

5,000 deaths in the course of a month doesn't sound drastic to me. Not when 6,700 people die every single day on a regular basis.

I am having this same discussion with a good personal friend who is the Medical Response Director for a major global medical research facility. His response is, "It depends on how you define 'bad'." It has the potential to be medically devastating, but then we have to look at the undeniably real devastating consequences of locking down our country and how many deaths that will cause, in addition to other long term problems.

He also said, "Unfortunately this has been highly politicized and there is a lot of pressure to produce the 'right' numbers and suppress information."

So we have two disagreements here:

How do you define "bad"; and
Is it worth the destruction of our economy and social structure

As to the latter, everyone sees through their own prism. You are in no danger of losing your job, so you're not concerned about the 10 million people who DID lose their job. That's not because you're cruel, it's because you're only seeing this through your own prism. The sorrow of losing a loved one and the fear of getting sick yourself is overshadowing the sorrow of people who are seeing their livelihood vanish and their fear of how they're going to feed and shelter their families.

So is it worth it? You say yes because you have no skin in the game. I say no because I'm not only seeing the ruined small business owners, I am one of them.
 
See, this is where we part ways. Some people think it "sounds bad"; others (like me) are going, "What am I looking at here?"

5,000 deaths in the course of a month doesn't sound drastic to me. Not when 6,700 people die every single day on a regular basis.

I am having this same discussion with a good personal friend who is the Medical Response Director for a major global medical research facility. His response is, "It depends on how you define 'bad'." It has the potential to be medically devastating, but then we have to look at the undeniably real devastating consequences of locking down our country and how many deaths that will cause, in addition to other long term problems.

He also said, "Unfortunately this has been highly politicized and there is a lot of pressure to produce the 'right' numbers and suppress information."

So we have two disagreements here:

How do you define "bad"; and
Is it worth the destruction of our economy and social structure

As to the latter, everyone sees through their own prism. You are in no danger of losing your job, so you're not concerned about the 10 million people who DID lose their job. That's not because you're cruel, it's because you're only seeing this through your own prism. The sorrow of losing a loved one and the fear of getting sick yourself is overshadowing the sorrow of people who are seeing their livelihood vanish and their fear of how they're going to feed and shelter their families.

So is it worth it? You say yes because you have no skin in the game. I say no because I'm not only seeing the ruined small business owners, I am one of them.
First, the suppressed information is the key factor. Regardless of how the chips fallen should get all information. Second, I read the words you typed and found his word do not discredit my views. Third, I completely agree we are seeing through our personal prism because every time I read your posts I feel the pain I assume you must have because what is going on now not only threatens your business, but also your life partner and your entire way of living that has been so perfect for you both up until the disaster that is now. I see you as able to survive and rebuild if you lose any or all of those three and believe your anger is from fear of any of it changing. I also fear for you if you do get COVID19 under the conditions our country is in right now. So I will continue to see through my prism. And you will continue to see through yours. And again there is nothing more that I want than for the numbers to remain where they are and then decrease. And I do believe it will be handled better when it starts to creep again in the fall.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Right, but normally what they do when there's a buggy going around is tell those with weak immune systems or health issues or whatever to take precautions, and it's on them. They don't firebomb the whole country.

I'm not at risk, and neither are most Americans. I could make out with Patient Zero and not get sick from this virus. If they catch me real quick I might test positive, but they'd have to hurry before my spectacular antibodies attacked it and killed it. So why are the majority being punished because of the few?

I still maintain that this overreaction is political, not biological. And it doesn't matter what actions Trump took, the Democrats would bitch and whine and call for an investigation.
I'm curious what makes you think you're not High Risk??
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron

During the Great Depression of the late 1920s, suicide rates in the United States reached an all-time high, topping 22 suicides per 100,000 persons. Images of once-wealthy business moguls and industrialists throwing themselves from Manhattan skyscrapers may seem a tragic memory of years past, yet contemporary data show that suicide rates ebb and flow dramatically with ups and downs in the economy—especially for men.

146899
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
I'm curious what makes you think you're not High Risk??
Because most people aren't. I am naturally healthy, I'm not afraid to let my immune system do its thing, and I practice good hygiene on the regular.

Supposedly 95% of COVID deaths had an underlying cause. I don't have that.
 

Hank

my war
I haven't done this before now because of the whacked word wars I've been watching on the forums.... I'm not doing this for any purpose other than to give insight as to some of the input I used to reach my conclusions. Here is the direct words from a nephew in the medic field in Columbia, MD when I was messaging with him yesterday:

HIM: It really is as bad as it sounds. Some places have it worse than others. We in MD are projected to peak currently around the beginning of May so we are very much on the upswing
If people stop social distancing that will make it worse. It’s the beginning of May now because of the social distancing. People just need to stay put and truly listen
It’s new times for everyone and sadly not keeping to ourselves will only make this worse
Bluntly, this thing sucks and is going to kill a lot of people. A lot of people that can normally fight off the “flu”
This isn’t the flu and needs to be respected for what it is. Our lives will forever be changed by this. We are talking months before we even begin to get to “normal” again

ME: Exactly the conclusion I reached, but a friend of mine thinks I am crazy. I received same answer a while ago from a 24 yr old family friend who is a nurse at St. Mary's she said her unit of 30 beds is now at 100% capacity all positive COVID19.
Thanks for your honesty.

HIM: Yea. It’s sad that people won’t actually believe science and just believe whatever

ME: I've been preaching the math and science is very simple and doesn't lie.

HIM: Exactly. This disease is such basic biology it isn’t funny. Heck kids learn about spreading germs in 1st grade and how to stop the spread
This is a little more intense ensues of the no immunity thing and it’s a dangerous bug
Two close friends of mine work in hospitals and are directly involved with testing. They can't even complete test results due to a shortage of reagents in the labs.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
And I do believe it will be handled better when it starts to creep again in the fall.
In the fall we'll be on the cusp of a presidential election, so I wouldn't put those sweatpants away just yet if I were you.

Worth keeping in mind is that slightly over 1/2 of 1% of Americans are testing positive - they appear to be predominantly celebrities, if those people are to be believed.

The death rate is, I think, .0015% of Americans. That's not very many.

Sure, when you say 5,000 and 6,000 it sounds ominous, but it's such a small percentage of the population as to be statistically insignificant.

Anyway, it is what it is and I'm just marveling at the idiocy of it all. The government response to this has been so ridiculously overreactive and knee-jerk I alternate laughing at these people and crying that we elect them to run our cities and states. It's been one stupid idea after another, and I can't help but believe they are simply flexing their muscles.
 
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