Paganism In The Navy

[kris31280]

You sure as hell do. There are plenty of wonderful people in the military that haven't hurt a soul. In fact, some of the most admirable people I know are in the military. It takes a special person to sacrifice their wants for the greater good of their country, versus sitting on their soapbox complaining while doing nothing to change things.

Perhaps they haven't hurt a person physically, but is plotting to hurt someone not also hurting someone indirectly?

On a mental level I understand the military, I understand war, I understand that it was war which brought America it's freedoms and therefore I understand the greater good as the driving force behind the military.

On a spiritual level, however, I'm very much against the tactics used by the military and I don't believe that we should persecute people in our own country for leveling a gun at someone and firing when we don't persecute those who do it in the name of America. How can they be two different things? Are they both not killers? And if they are indeed attempting to harm someone, are they seeking to have someone harm them?

 

[Pete]

Perhaps they haven't hurt a person physically, but is plotting to hurt someone not also hurting someone indirectly?

On a mental level I understand the military, I understand war, I understand that it was war which brought America it's freedoms and therefore I understand the greater good as the driving force behind the military.

On a spiritual level, however, I'm very much against the tactics used by the military and I don't believe that we should persecute people in our own country for leveling a gun at someone and firing when we don't persecute those who do it in the name of America. How can they be two different things? Are they both not killers? And if they are indeed attempting to harm someone, are they seeking to have someone harm them?

Crack kills

 

[Nickel]

Perhaps they haven't hurt a person physically, but is plotting to hurt someone not also hurting someone indirectly?

On a mental level I understand the military, I understand war, I understand that it was war which brought America it's freedoms and therefore I understand the greater good as the driving force behind the military.

On a spiritual level, however, I'm very much against the tactics used by the military and I don't believe that we should persecute people in our own country for leveling a gun at someone and firing when we don't persecute those who do it in the name of America. How can they be two different things? Are they both not killers? And if they are indeed attempting to harm someone, are they seeking to have someone harm them?

So you have a problem with the small percentage of service members who are involved in the war? Or do you take issue with the Mess Specialist who's serving mashed potatoes in Norfolk as well? Regarding the former: spend some time in a military rehabilitation hospital with 19 year old amputees and explain to them why they deserve to be there. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, as am I. I have far more respect for that 19 year old than I will ever have for someone who can't find their own happiness and must resort to complaints about a world they aren't active in changing.

 

[kris31280]

So you have a problem with the small percentage of service members who are involved in the war? Or do you take issue with the Mess Specialist who's serving mashed potatoes in Norfolk as well? Regarding the former: spend some time in a military rehabilitation hospital with 19 year old amputees and explain to them why they deserve to be there. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, as am I. I have far more respect for that 19 year old than I will ever have for someone who can't find their own happiness and must resort to complaints about a world they aren't active in changing.

And by your response I take it to mean that you seem to think I'm incapable of finding my own happiness and that I don't seek to change the world around me?

If you want to get in to a pissing match on that regard, we absolutely can, however I think it's best if we just simply leave at you don't know anything about me and my life and how I choose to live it as I know nothing of yours.

 

[Nickel]

And by your response I take it to mean that you seem to think I'm incapable of finding my own happiness and that I don't seek to change the world around me?

Actually, no. It was an example of a gross interpretation based on a minimum amount of information. If we all based our opinion of someone or something on the small amount on information that we have, we'd be doing ourselves a disservice by making broad assumptions. Not fun is it? I see people claiming an anti-military stance when they clearly are not fully informed as to how the military actually operates. Not everyone in the military is "the bad guy".

As far as getting into a pissing match, I have nothing to prove to anyone, nor do I care for anyone to prove anything to me.

 

[kris31280]

Actually, no. It was an example of a gross interpretation based on a minimum amount of information. If we all based our opinion of someone or something on the small amount on information that we have, we'd be doing ourselves a disservice by making broad assumptions. Not fun is it? I see people claiming an anti-military stance when they clearly are not fully informed as to how the military actually operates. Not everyone in the military is "the bad guy".

As far as getting into a pissing match, I have nothing to prove to anyone, nor do I care for anyone to prove anything to me.

I disagree... everyone in the military is the "bad guy" on a spiritual level. The 19 year old down in the mess hall is enrolled himself in to a killing machine. How is that not being the "bad guy"? That 19 year old in the mess hall could be working on becoming an active member on the front, perhaps he just wanted to see what it was all about before he took the leap.

 

[MysticalMom]

Perhaps they haven't hurt a person physically, but is plotting to hurt someone not also hurting someone indirectly?

On a mental level I understand the military, I understand war, I understand that it was war which brought America it's freedoms and therefore I understand the greater good as the driving force behind the military.

On a spiritual level, however, I'm very much against the tactics used by the military and I don't believe that we should persecute people in our own country for leveling a gun at someone and firing when we don't persecute those who do it in the name of America. How can they be two different things? Are they both not killers? And if they are indeed attempting to harm someone, are they seeking to have someone harm them?

If you're so anti military, tell me, who do you think should protect our country? On a "spiritual" level I am anti war, yes, and I don't agree with us being in Iraq. But I support our troops 100%.

My father and brother are both military. (Dad's retired) My brother is in Iraq serving his country right now and sincerely believes in what he's doing and that it is good.

Fellow Pagan or not, spiritual belief or not, I kinda resent you calling them killers. He is following orders given to him buy a country he loves and doing what he believes is right. And if their shooting at him, I hope with all my heart he's shooting them right back.

I understand the law of return and all...but MY rede (I am not Wiccan) "If it harms me, harm back at will."

 

[kris31280]

If you're so anti military, tell me, who do you think should protect our country? On a "spiritual" level I am anti war, yes, and I don't agree with us being in Iraq. But I support our troops 100%.

My father and brother are both military. (Dad's retired) My brother is in Iraq serving his country right now and sincerely believes in what he's doing and that it is good.

Fellow Pagan or not, spiritual belief or not, I kinda resent you calling them killers. He is following orders given to him buy a country he loves and doing what he believes is right. And if their shooting at him, I hope with all my heart he's shooting them right back.

I understand the law of return and all...but MY rede (I am not Wiccan) "If it harms me, harm back at will."

I'm sorry if I've offended... but it simply my personal belief.

I'm sure throughout history everyone has always thought they were doing right at the time they were doing it. Everyone has to have something they strongly believe in. Some people find it in religion, some people find it in the military, others find it in other spiritual quests.

I have no issue with protecting the country. It's much the same as a lioness protecting her cubs. What I have issues with in regards to the military, and quite possibly the source of my "anti-military" views is when excessive force is used. An animal protects their domain only when it's threatened and doesn't go any further than necessary to defend it. I feel we, as a country, should do much the same.

 

[MysticalMom]

I'm sorry if I've offended... but it simply my personal belief.

I'm sure throughout history everyone has always thought they were doing right at the time they were doing it. Everyone has to have something they strongly believe in. Some people find it in religion, some people find it in the military, others find it in other spiritual quests.

I have no issue with protecting the country. It's much the same as a lioness protecting her cubs. What I have issues with in regards to the military, and quite possibly the source of my "anti-military" views is when excessive force is used. An animal protects their domain only when it's threatened and doesn't go any further than necessary to defend it. I feel we, as a country, should do much the same.

You did not offend me. Opinions are like a$$holes. Everyone has one. I'm just saying... our boys in Iraq are following orders and I would not call them "killers."

 

[Nickel]

I disagree... everyone in the military is the "bad guy" on a spiritual level. The 19 year old down in the mess hall is enrolled himself in to a killing machine. How is that not being the "bad guy"? That 19 year old in the mess hall could be working on becoming an active member on the front, perhaps he just wanted to see what it was all about before he took the leap.

And there you have it. You have absolutely no knowledge of how the military works. I'm done.

 

[MMDad]

I disagree... everyone in the military is the "bad guy" on a spiritual level. The 19 year old down in the mess hall is enrolled himself in to a killing machine. How is that not being the "bad guy"? That 19 year old in the mess hall could be working on becoming an active member on the front, perhaps he just wanted to see what it was all about before he took the leap.

As an American and a taxpayer, you are just as "guilty" as anyone in the military. You have hired these brave people to do your bidding for you. For you to distance youself is dishonest. You can't say that the guy that cooks the food is guilty, but you who pays for the food is not.

 

[kris31280]

As an American and a taxpayer, you are just as "guilty" as anyone in the military. You have hired these brave people to do your bidding for you. For you to distance youself is dishonest. You can't say that the guy that cooks the food is guilty, but you who pays for the food is not.

That's food for thought and nausea inducing... thank you for that!

 

[HopHead]

As an American and a taxpayer, you are just as "guilty" as anyone in the military. You have hired these brave people to do your bidding for you. For you to distance youself is dishonest. You can't say that the guy that cooks the food is guilty, but you who pays for the food is not.

Well said.

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

Well said.

It was not well said at all.

The taxes are not some free given gift to the gov,

and all tax payers are not to blame for the midguided war mongering of the Bush administration.

And even those of us that agreed with Bush in the first place does not mean we share the guilt of Bush trampling on the Geneva Convention and Bush's mismanagement of those wars.

The people in the military need to consult their own conscience before following unjust and immoral orders.

 

[MMDad]

It was not well said at all.

Just knowing that you disagree with me gives me the satisfaction of knowing that I am right. Since your whole existence is based on dishonesty, anything you disagree with is by default true.

 

[kris31280]

Just knowing that you disagree with me gives me the satisfaction of knowing that I am right. Since your whole existence is based on dishonesty, anything you disagree with is by default true.

Well said or not... it still makes me sick to my stomach that, by being an honest American citizen who pays her taxes (or in this case, gets a huge return every year) and not abusing the system despite being a single mother, I am still supporting the military and in turn this war of terror and the karmic retributions from it all.

Seriously... I truly appreciate how horrified at myself your point and revelation has made me.

 

[Pete]

Well said or not... it still makes me sick to my stomach that, by being an honest American citizen who pays her taxes (or in this case, gets a huge return every year) and not abusing the system despite being a single mother, I am still supporting the military and in turn this war of terror and the karmic retributions from it all.

Seriously... I truly appreciate how horrified at myself your point and revelation has made me.

If you get EIC you can rest your mind comfortably that you do not support the military because you draw more from the government than you pay in.

 

[MMDad]

Well said or not... it still makes me sick to my stomach that, by being an honest American citizen who pays her taxes (or in this case, gets a huge return every year) and not abusing the system despite being a single mother, I am still supporting the military and in turn this war of terror and the karmic retributions from it all.

Seriously... I truly appreciate how horrified at myself your point and revelation has made me.

Rather than being repulsed by war, you could understand that it is human nature. As every society in history has proven, humans are made to kill each other. Whether you believe that God, Mother Earth, Buddah, Allah, or evolution created us, we are what we are. Denying our fundamental nature is just as much an affront to nature as war is.

You can be repulsed by being an American if you'd like, but recognize that your repulsion is misplaced. If you must be repulsed, be aware that the legitimate object of your revulsion should be the human race. The nations, flags, and reasons may change, but the end result is the same. Humans fight wars. We always have, and always will.

 

[kris31280]

Rather than being repulsed by war, you could understand that it is human nature. As every society in history has proven, humans are made to kill each other. Whether you believe that God, Mother Earth, Buddah, Allah, or evolution created us, we are what we are. Denying our fundamental nature is just as much an affront to nature as war is.

You can be repulsed by being an American if you'd like, but recognize that your repulsion is misplaced. If you must be repulsed, be aware that the legitimate object of your revulsion should be the human race. The nations, flags, and reasons may change, but the end result is the same. Humans fight wars. We always have, and always will.

Human nature is to destroy what it does not understand. I disagree that humans were made to kill each other.

There are people out there who will do whatever it takes to reach their end goal, and they don't care who stands in their way. It's when those people get in to power positions that war occurs.

 

[dustin]

Interesting Article

As a 14 yr second class he doesnt have much longer to worry about the what happens in the navy...

A couple years ago I was told there was one muslim "chaplain" in the entire navy. And that was told to me by a senior chaplain. But it could be different by now...

I couldnt care less what kind of religion you practice as long as it doesnt affect your work.