Politician: Discharge Muslims from U.S. Military

[vraiblonde]

For someone who thinks that islam is a religion of violence, hatred, falsehood etc. You sure follow it religiously. They sneeze and you have a post. Why not ignore it. The more attention you give, the MORE attention it(whatever it maybe) recieves.

Ignoring it is what gave us 9/11.

I feel two ways about this issue. I don't like the idea of our troops being threatened by the guys who are supposed to be their own, but I also don't like to see Americans being discriminated against because of their religion.

What would be perfect is if they'd be paying attention to odd behavior and root out those who exhibit it. I don't believe for one minute nobody notices a potentially threatening individual. I do believe that we've gone all touchy feely, coupled with zero tolerance, and are incapable of making rational decisions. And I also believe the powers that be care too much when the ignorant Left starts #####ing and crying.

 

[Mabus]

Ok, then jews shouldn't be able to work as govt contractors since they're all Pollards.

 

[foodcritic]

Ok, then jews shouldn't be able to work as govt contractors since they're all Pollards.

Really....

 

[punjabigyrl]

Ignoring it is what gave us 9/11.

I feel two ways about this issue. I don't like the idea of our troops being threatened by the guys who are supposed to be their own, but I also don't like to see Americans being discriminated against because of their religion.

What would be perfect is if they'd be paying attention to odd behavior and root out those who exhibit it. I don't believe for one minute nobody notices a potentially threatening individual. I do believe that we've gone all touchy feely, coupled with zero tolerance, and are incapable of making rational decisions. And I also believe the powers that be care too much when the ignorant Left starts #####ing and crying.

I ABSOLUTELY agree with you.

 

[Starman3000m]

I don't see anything other than what's in pink that supports your original statement.

Aren't we "One nation under God?" Wasn't our constitution based on "christian" values?

First: (as mentioned) If you are not Muslim you cannot serve in the military of any Islamic nation. Contrary to our military allowing Muslims to serve within U.S. ranks.

Second: Yes, the American Constitution is said to be based on principles and guidance of the Judeo/Christian God.

Third: The Islamic god, Al'lah of the Qur'an is NOT the same deity as the Judeo/Christian God of the Holy Bible.

Fourth: Muslims are devoted to and fighting for a different deity; not the same one where the American pledge of allegience mentions "One Nation Under God".

FYI - Herein is the difference:

Yahweh NEVER commanded His angels to bow down prostrate to Adam.
Al’lah Did: Qur’an: (002.034) (007.011)

Yahweh NEVER authorized mankind to honor and kiss a stone. (Ka'ba)
Muhammad Did and Muslims still do to this day.

Yahweh NEVER authorized men to beat their wives.
Al’lah Did: Qur’an: (004.032)

Yahweh NEVER authorized His prophets to have multiple wives- as many as the prophet desired, nor did Yahweh authorize men to have up to four wives.
Al’lah Did: Qur’an: (033.050) (004.003)

Yahweh NEVER promised a “paradise” filled with dark-eyed voluptuous women (virgins) as a “reward” to the “righteous.”
Al’lah Did: Qur’an: (037.040-.049) (056.035-.036) (078.031-.033)

Yahweh NEVER said that women were second-class citizens and comprised the greatest amount of residents in hell.
Muhammad Did: (Sahih Bukhari: Vol. 7, Book 62, No. 126)

Muslims do not believe in the same God as the Holy Bible. The Islamic Al'lah is a different deity altogether, Al'lah is one of the 360 pagan gods worshipped in the Ka'ba shrine in Mecca and was the deity of the Quraysh tribe - the tribe Muhammad belonged to.

In an effort to create a "monotheistic" religion for Arabs, Muhammad ordered all other pagan gods in the Ka'ba to be destroyed and only faith in the Quraysh deity, Al'lah, was commanded.

Research

 

[PsyOps]

Is that really the issue? What it all boils down to is do we as a country want to discriminate against someone for a greater good. I don't think anyone and everyone should be able to enlist (or other services) and have no level of filtration.

Can you say Maj. Nasan.

Fort Hood Shooting Report Critical Of FBI, Army « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

That was the PC version..... a lot of this boils down to the constitution and original intent or changing for the whims of the culture etc.

Tim McVeigh - Timothy McVeigh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bradley Manning - Bradley Manning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edward Zakrzewski - Edward Zakrzewski - Florida Death Row Inmate Edward Zakrzewski II

I could make a pretty long list of non-muslim military folks that have committed some very heinous crimes. I'm pretty shocked that you, and anyone that agrees with you, would take on the practice of descrimination and forbid someone from participating in something as patriotic as serving in our military on the basis of their faith.

Perhaps we ought to take on the practice of internment camps too.

 

[ItalianScallion]

For someone who thinks that islam is a religion of violence, hatred, falsehood etc. You sure follow it religiously. They sneeze and you have a post. Why not ignore it. The more attention you give, the MORE attention it(whatever it maybe) recieves.

If ignoring them would have made them go away, we would have done it. Shall I state the obvious for you? Not all muslims are terrorists but almost all terrorists are muslims; even the American born ones. We do get a lot of them before they strike but what about the ones we miss? We are at war with Islam and we cannot ignore them ever again...

 

[Starman3000m]

... I'm pretty shocked that you, and anyone that agrees with you, would take on the practice of descrimination and forbid someone from participating in something as patriotic as serving in our military on the basis of their faith.

PsyOps, being in the military, were you never taught the concept of "Know Your Enemy"?

If Islam was just a "religion" that would be a totally different story altogether here. However, Islam is an all encompassing ideology that adds a complete social and political structure into the mix of its "religion" and all true fundamental Muslims are expected to abide by the social/political/religious commands of Muhammad and instructions in the Qur'an.

Sure, the acts of Timothy McVeigh and the others you mentioned are to be condemned for not representing America's Judeo/Christian principles as are the acts of all jihadist terroristic attacks perpetrated by Muslims as they shout "Alahu Akbar!"

However, herein is the difference: Did Americans dance gleefully in the streets and shout "Praise the Lord" when the Federal Building was destroyed by McVeigh? What about the destructive acts of others? Did Americans gather in the streets and shout "Praise God"?

Compare that to the Islamic response of 9/11 and the support that the Fort Hood Massacre received by the Muslim world.

Our national security is in danger and if a Muslim in the U.S. military is a true Muslim, he/she will aid and abet the opportunity to put their faith in the Islamic ideology above and beyond that of their allegience to a country that they see as being an "Infidel nation".

Perhaps we ought to take on the practice of internment camps too.

If a series of Islamic terror attacks began to strike simultaneously throughout this country would you think it would be a bad idea?

Muslim cleric values life??? Reuters 4/18/2004

"It's inevitable. Because several (attacks) are being prepared by several groups," Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad told Lisbon's Publica magazine from London where he is based.
He added: "We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers! And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity!.
----------------------------------------
CAIR Board Member Imam Siraj Wahaj, an un-indicted co-conspirator in the first World Trade Center bombing, has called for replacing the American government with an Islamic caliphate, and warned that America will crumble unless it accepts Islam.
*Anti-CAIR* Defending America from the Council on American-Islamic Relations
---------------------------------------
Omar Ahmad, Co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR)
5/16/2004

"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."
FrontPage Magazine - Hamas and Hizzoner

Ibrahim Hooper, CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) Spokesperson
AP - 6/11/2004

"I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like
the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in
the future. ...But I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education."

 

[thurley42]

Really....

Why are you smacking him? Your comment was just as ridiculous.

 

[foodcritic]

Why are you smacking him? Your comment was just as ridiculous.

Not to me ........

 

[foodcritic]

Tim McVeigh - Timothy McVeigh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bradley Manning - Bradley Manning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edward Zakrzewski - Edward Zakrzewski - Florida Death Row Inmate Edward Zakrzewski II

I could make a pretty long list of non-muslim military folks that have committed some very heinous crimes. I'm pretty shocked that you, and anyone that agrees with you, would take on the practice of descrimination and forbid someone from participating in something as patriotic as serving in our military on the basis of their faith.

Perhaps we ought to take on the practice of internment camps too.

I am not debating the issue someone having been involved in the military killing for some reason in the private world. The different circumstances in the above listed people does not have a pattern.

That said we will never be able to root out every traitor (Manning) but the point is that we want to do all we can to root them out. If Manning was associated with groups that were traitors for example that might be a red flag. We have to use some common sense also.

 

[PsyOps]

I am not debating the issue someone having been involved in the military killing for some reason in the private world. The different circumstances in the above listed people does not have a pattern.

That said we will never be able to root out every traitor (Manning) but the point is that we want to do all we can to root them out. If Manning was associated with groups that were traitors for example that might be a red flag. We have to use some common sense also.

You certainly don't root out the 'bad guys' by declining an entire sect of people, on religious grounds, from serving in the military. There is no more likely a threat from an American Muslim than from an American fundamentalist Christian or even a Ron Paul supporter.

You cannot refuse any American from serving simply on religious grounds. That is just fundamentally unconstitutional.

 

[Starman3000m]

You certainly don't root out the 'bad guys' by declining an entire sect of people, on religious grounds, from serving in the military. There is no more likely a threat from an American Muslim than from an American fundamentalist Christian or even a Ron Paul supporter.

You cannot refuse any American from serving simply on religious grounds. That is just fundamentally unconstitutional.

Unfortunately, PsyOps, the reality is that a true fundamental Muslim is not serving this country to preserve the freedom of the myriad beliefs represented by American citizens (especially Jews). A true Muslim is going to advance the cause of their Islamic ideology and will do so by using the generous loopholes provided by our own Constitution. The other reality is that the Fort Hood Massacre and fragging incidents reported are a result of American-Muslim soldiers expressing their duty to Islam based on "religious grounds".

BTW: The societal changes that Muslims are making in places like France, England, Russia and The Netherlands are due to the freedoms they have been given by those countries.

 

[PsyOps]

Unfortunately, PsyOps, the reality is that a true fundamental Muslim is not serving this country to preserve the freedom of the myriad beliefs represented by American citizens (especially Jews). A true Muslim is going to advance the cause of their Islamic ideology and will do so by using the generous loopholes provided by our own Constitution. The other reality is that the Fort Hood Massacre and fragging incidents reported are a result of American-Muslim soldiers expressing their duty to Islam based on "religious grounds".

BTW: The societal changes that Muslims are making in places like France, England, Russia and The Netherlands are due to the freedoms they have been given by those countries.

There wasn't a call to purge fundamentalist Muslims from the military. I would say we don't have fundamentalist Muslims in our military, at least in significant numbers, as it would be contrary to their beliefs. But our military can't and doesn't filter people by depth of belief; nor should they. The Ft. Hood incident happened because people ignored a problem, not because there was some infiltration by extreme Muslims. This sort of ignorance happens on all sorts of levels from mental problems, to suicide, to spouse/child abuse, etc...

I just fundamentally reject any attempt to deny one religiuous group because of a narrow view that ALL Muslim are like this. The case could easily be made for Christians because of their violent and extremist past. Where do we draw the line?

 

[Starman3000m]

...Where do we draw the line?

The line has already been drawn with the advantage given to those who wish to enter our military and politics with the intention of subverting and replacing the very Constitution that allowed them to do so.

Muslim cleric values life??? Reuters 4/18/2004

"It's inevitable. Because several (attacks) are being prepared by several groups," Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad told Lisbon's Publica magazine from London where he is based.
He added: "We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers! And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity!
----------------------------------------
CAIR Board Member Imam Siraj Wahaj, an un-indicted co-conspirator in the first World Trade Center bombing, has called for replacing the American government with an Islamic caliphate, and warned that America will crumble unless it accepts Islam.
*Anti-CAIR* Defending America from the Council on American-Islamic Relations
---------------------------------------
Omar Ahmad, Co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR)
5/16/2004

"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."
FrontPage Magazine - Hamas and Hizzoner

Ibrahim Hooper, CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) Spokesperson
AP - 6/11/2004

"I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like
the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in
the future. ...But I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education."

 

[Larry Gude]

Islamic nations do not allow non-Muslims from serving in their military.

The Pentagon should consider heeding the advice of the State Representative from Tennessee:

(video report)

Should we be more like Islamic nations? Just in bigotry and ignorance or in general?




How about Jews?

Liberal Jews?

Methodists?

Baptists?

Atheists?

Dallas Cowboy fans? OK, wait. I am starting to see some reason, here.

Good book for you;

Amazon.com: The Long Way Home: An American Journey from Ellis Island to the Great War (P.S.) (9780061233340): David Laskin: Books

 

[Starman3000m]

...Good book for you;

Amazon.com: The Long Way Home: An American Journey from Ellis Island to the Great War (P.S.) (9780061233340): David Laskin: Books

On the contrary, good book for you to read to understand the Islamic ideology:

The Qur'an

 

[PsyOps]

The line has already been drawn with the advantage given to those who wish to enter our military and politics with the intention of subverting and replacing the very Constitution that allowed them to do so.

Where is the evidence that this is the case? You show very little trust in the screening process that let's people in the military. Aside from that, what you are suggesting be done here is not different than the countries already do this; and you disagree with it. Please explain to me how this puts us on the high road? Please explain how you can be so selective with applying our constitution?

 

[Starman3000m]

Where is the evidence that this is the case? You show very little trust in the screening process that let's people in the military. Aside from that, what you are suggesting be done here is not different than the countries already do this; and you disagree with it. Please explain to me how this puts us on the high road? Please explain how you can be so selective with applying our constitution?

The evidence is clear and has been posted here numerous times. Here it is again:

As long as it is politically correct to ignore be in denial of) the stated goals of fundamental Islamists, Muslims will grow ever closer to achieving their main intention to impose Islam and Shari'a Law upon all societies throughout the world. For Example:

Muslim cleric values life??? Reuters 4/18/2004

"It's inevitable. Because several (attacks) are being prepared by several groups," Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad told Lisbon's Publica magazine from London where he is based.
He added: "We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers! And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity!.
----------------------------------------
CAIR Board Member Imam Siraj Wahaj, an un-indicted co-conspirator in the first World Trade Center bombing, has called for replacing the American government with an Islamic caliphate, and warned that America will crumble unless it accepts Islam.
*Anti-CAIR* Defending America from the Council on American-Islamic Relations
---------------------------------------
Omar Ahmad, Co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR)
5/16/2004

"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."
FrontPage Magazine - Hamas and Hizzoner

Ibrahim Hooper, CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) Spokesperson
AP - 6/11/2004

"I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like
the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in
the future. ...But I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education."

No doubt, the military screens on the basis of trusting a soldier's "word" that he/she is pledging loyalty and patriotism to the U.S. Constitution and, yes, all the background checks in the world may clear a soldier for being entrusted with top security info. That does not prevent a soldier from becoming a turn-coat and committing a treasonous act at a given opportunity. This is the factor that should be considered even more so by the U.S. military at this point in history and the known ideology of Islam should be a factor in determining how to handle a situation. It is, therefore, not unreasonable to take great precaution in being aware that Muslim-American soldiers on the "inside" are bound by Islamic ideology to be helping those on the outside.

Here is another note of interest:

(article excerpt)

Oliver North: Know Your Enemy
June 24, 2004

Washington, D.C. - The ancient Chinese warrior Sun Tzu taught his men to "know your enemy" before going into battle. For if "you know your enemy and know yourself," he wrote, "you need not fear the result of a hundred battles." But, Sun Tzu warned, "If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat."

In my 22 years as an officer of Marines - from Annapolis to The Basic School to the Naval War College - similar advice was drilled into us: to know your enemy. It's sound guidance, pretty basic stuff, really. Yet there are apparently those in our government - people with many years of experience - supposedly learned statesmen, according to their bios and press reports - who somehow don't get it.

Our present enemy, properly identified by President George W. Bush and his National Security team, is the radical Islamic jihadist terror movement. Our enemy is not limited to Osama bin Laden or al Qaeda, though they certainly fit the bill. Radical Islamic jihadist terrorists, principally financed by Saudi petro-dollars, also carry out their killing under the rubric of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Al Aksa Martyrs Brigade, Ansar al-Islam, and dozens of other names. And though they use different monikers, they all have a common goal: to kill as many Americans, Christians and Jews as they can, using whatever tools they have at their disposal.

While these barbaric groups prefer mass killings and spectacular events like 9-11, they are more than willing to settle for individual atrocities: a suicide bus-bomber in Israel or the gruesome beheading of a single hostage. They know they can count on the Internet, Arabic-language broadcast media, of which al Jazerra is but one, and even Western press outlets to help them spread fear.

These enemies are utterly ruthless, and indescribably brutal. Though the leaders of these groups do all they can to avoid death or capture, their "foot soldiers" are not only willing to die for their cause - they want to die. And unlike our adversaries of the past, this enemy is not motivated by goals that inspired armies of old: land, treasure, strategic waterways, or natural resources. Today's enemy is instead goaded by a twisted belief that they have a holy mission to advance their religion and drive Western influence - meaning Judeo-Christian values - from any Islamic territory.

more...
Know Your Enemy

 

[Larry Gude]

On the contrary, good book for you to read to understand the Islamic ideology:

The Qur'an

I'm familiar with it. I wish the Bush's, 41 and 43, were.

Do you think all Muslims take their holy book literally or, like Christians, many simply use it as a guide to try and live a good life? More to the point, can a Muslim be a good American?