Pope Benedict's Warning to Theologians

nhboy

Ubi bene ibi patria
Theologians warned against arrogance

Pope Benedict has warned Roman Catholic theologians against becoming arrogant and forgetting God in a broadside following reports that the Vatican is probing the writings of a priest in the United States.

In a sermon at a private mass on Sunday, Benedict said theologians could know everything about the history of the Scriptures and how to explain them, but know nothing about God.

This came only days after it became known that the Vatican's doctrinal office was probing Father Peter Phan, a theologian at Washington's Georgetown University who says that non-Christian religions have a place in the salvation of mankind.

Benedict, who was head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) before his election in 2005, has long opposed any blurring of lines between faiths and reprimanded theologians he felt portrayed other religions as being equal to Catholicism.

Benedict said at a mass with some of his former doctoral students that theologians sometimes "only talk in the end about ourselves (and) don't go beyond ourselves and beyond people."

So it sometimes happened "that God cannot come to us and speak to us through all our knowledge of human things that we don't hear him and don't know him," he said according to an audio report posted on the Vatican Radio website in German.

The Vatican Radio report on the speech was entitled: "Pope warns against theological arrogance."

National Catholic Reporter, an independent US weekly, reported last week the CDF had been quietly probing Phan's writings since 2004, while Benedict was still at the helm.

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops has a parallel probe.

Asked about this, spokeswoman Sister Mary Ann Walsh only said: "There is an on-going dialogue between the bishops' Committee on Doctrine and Father Phan."

Phan, who migrated from Vietnam to the United States with his family in 1975, is a former president of the Catholic Theological Society of America.

He has close ties to Catholic theologians in Asia, where several leading Church intellectuals say the Vatican is too European-centric and the Church should recognise the positive aspects in non-Christian religions.

His book under investigation is called "Being Religious Interreligiously: Asian Perspectives on Interreligious Dialogue."

In recent years, the CDF has criticised similar ideas in the writings of the late Belgian Jesuit Jacques Dupuis, who lived in India for 36 years and also worked on inter-faith dialogue.

It has also barred US Jesuit Roger Haight from teaching Catholic theology because of his reinterpretation of Jesus Christ and reprimanded Spanish Jesuit Jon Sobrino for his writings on liberation theology.
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Starman3000m

New Member
Since the Vatican's position has been that other Christian churches are "deficient" in their teaching, the warning about "theological arrogance" should also be heeded by the Vatican as well for the following reason:

It is NOT the Roman Catholic Church that exclusively provides the path to Salvation of mankind; it is each individual's acceptance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as being the Son of the Living God and making Jesus the personal Lord and Saviour of his/her life.

The Pope's position from the Vatican is that all of mankind has to belong to the Roman Catholic Church for Salvation and submit to the authority of "the Pope" as God's authorized spokesman on this earth.

Not so, according to the Holy Bible and according to the Words of the New Testament teachings of Jesus Christ.

You don't have to go to "church" to receive Salvation - you have to go to God with a repentant heart asking forgiveness for the things that have separated you from the Love of God and allowing His Holy Spirit to be your Comforter as Christ mentioned in (John 16:7)

The Gift of Salvation that is provided through the Atoning Blood of Christ is Free and available for all who willingly admit to God that they are unable to live a perfect life under their own strength and need His Forgiveness that has been provided through the perfect life and Atonement of His Only Begotten Son.

Jesus' words to those trying to gain salvation through their own "religious observations"
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. (John 10:1-3)
...
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.(John 10:7-11)

I Am The Way, The Truth And The Life; No Man Can Come To The Father Except Through Me. (John 14:6)

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.
 
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Bavarian

New Member
The Catholic Church is the one, true church founded by Christ. He made St. Peter the first Pope and entrusted to him the Keys to Heaven. The Church is the way to Heaven. When the Pope speaks he is infallible in Faith and Morals. Pagans can only hope to claim that they had no knowledge of the Truth. Same with the protestants.
Extra Eclesia, Nulla Sanctus!
 

Toxick

Splat
Nucklesack said:
I believe Starman and ItalianScallion will vouch for me in stating that my Pope Comment wont keep me from Heaven :whistle:


I'll vouch.



You're going to fry in hell, and have your hollowed out carcass used as a prophylactic for Golgoth the Thorn-Membered for totally different reasons.



















This post was a lame attempt at levity. I'll do better next time.
 

Bavarian

New Member
Nucklesack said:
I believe Starman and ItalianScallion will vouch for me in stating that my Pope Comment wont keep me from Heaven :whistle:


:lmao:
And who ordained them? By whose authority do they speak?
Unless they are Catholic priests, they have no authority to grant you or anyone absolution.
As for the so-called pedophile scandal, many were acts of homosexual nature. These men were ordained contray to rules laid down by the Vatican. As the late, great, Bishop Sheen said, they were planted by communists and masons to undermine the Church and make way for the Anti-Christ that many of you seem to follow.
 

Toxick

Splat
Bavarian said:
And who ordained them? By whose authority do they speak?

Lighten up Francis.


Bavarian said:
Unless they are Catholic priests, they have no authority to grant you or anyone absolution.


He wasn't referring to absolution.


See my previous post as an explanation.



Unfortunately, you need a sense of humor to understand it, and I'm not sure you have one.
 

libby

New Member
Nucklesack said:
Bavarian since you tried to give me red, but due to your low Karma were unable, i'll ask the second part of the question.

Since the Pope maintained his silence during the Catholic Priest pedophile cases. Can we discern the Pope, by his silence, and using his infallible morals to approve of the goings on?

Let's see if you know what the definition of infallible is...
If the pope were given a trigonometry test with 100 questions on it, what is the minimum number of answers he must get right to be considered infallible insofar as that test goes?
 

libby

New Member
Nucklesack said:
Does not matter who "planted them"

It does not matter who or why they were ordained

What does matter, they were the representitives of the Roman Catholic Church here in the United States

They (the priests) were operating under authority of, and with approval of the Pope.

The Pope stayed silent when the preists were called out by their victims, usually the Pope had the priests moved to a different diocese (and when i say the Pope had them moved, i mean the office of the Pope acting for his authority).

When the scandal became public, the Pope (himself this time) stayed silent until the outcry became such that he wasnt able to ignore it any longer.

Your attempt to divert attention from the Pope by attacking the victims claiming the scandal is "Supposed" is disturbing in your blind ignorance and faith. And is really no different than the friggin Taliban you rail against as a pagan :lmao:


It seems to me then, that you must throw out the Saviour Himself. He appointed and gave authority to Judas and Peter, and He is silent (according to Scripture) about their great sins.
You cannot judge Truth by a standard of impeccability that no human can achieve, including the pope himself.
If you think the Bible alone is the way of salvation, you will say that anyone who diverts from that risks his salvation, right? Well, the Holy Father (and over 1 billions Catholics worldwide) believe that Jesus Christ established a church that is the bulwark of Truth, and so it is right and just that the pope would defend that position.
 

Starman3000m

New Member
Nucklesack said:
I believe Starman and ItalianScallion will vouch for me in stating that my Pope Comment wont keep me from Heaven :whistle:


:lmao:

I vouch for you Nucklesack. It is on the authority of Jesus' words that your comment about the pope will not keep you out of heaven.

On the contrary, the Vatican's position that the RCC is the exclusive true church whereby Salvation is obtained is theologically misleading and the Roman application giving the Pope and priests authority to grant forgiveness of sins has always usurped the Power and Authority given only to Jesus Christ and no one else.

"...Who can forgive sins but God only? (Mark 2:7)

The Vatican's previous/present forgiveness of sins through "indulgences" constitute bribery and pay-offs received by the RCC. A Big No-No.

Jesus said: "...It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.(Matthew 21:13)

Rome capitalized on the 1st-Century Christian movement and replaced its previous pagan gods with substitute "saints". Basically, the Vatican had absorbed "Christianity" as a source of acquiring wealth, political power and control over people.

A person does not need to belong to any man-made "organized religion" to receive the Free Gift of Salvation. That is why the the Vatican is wrong to institute the belief that it is the Only True Church on earth and why it has always been wrong to coerce its followers with the fear tactic of "pay-up or be doomed."

One more thing: People need to confess their sins directly to God ONLY and in their own words asking Him for forgiveness.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)

Jesus (not any other religious leader) is the Only Mediator between God and mankind.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5)

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.
 

ItalianScallion

Harley Rider
Nucklesack said:
I believe Starman and ItalianScallion will vouch for me in stating that my Pope Comment wont keep me from Heaven :whistle:
:lmao:
:yay: Agreed Nucklesack.
I'd like to tell Starman and a very few others that they're; :deadhorse
Sadly, those " indoctrinated die hards" won't learn until judgment day that the pope is not God. Their god maybe, but not the true God.
 

Bavarian

New Member
ItalianScallion said:
:yay: Agreed Nucklesack.
I'd like to tell Starman and a very few others that they're; :deadhorse
Sadly, those " indoctrinated die hards" won't learn until judgment day that the pope is not God. Their god maybe, but not the true God.
The Pope is the Vicar of Christ on Earth, he never claimed to be God.
When Christ made St. Peter in charge of the Church, hence the first Pope, He said "Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it"
On the evening of the first Easter, Christ appeared to the 11 in the locked room, He breathed on them and said "Who's sins you forgive they are forgiven them, whose sins you shall retain they are retained" That means one must confess their sins to a priest who has power to forgive them.
As I said before, I pray for you people who do not know the Thruth that you may repent before it is too late.
 

libby

New Member
On the contrary, the Vatican's position that the RCC is the exclusive true church whereby Salvation is obtained is theologically misleading and the Roman application giving the Pope and priests authority to grant forgiveness of sins has always usurped the Power and Authority given only to Jesus Christ and no one else.
And Jesus gave the keys of the kingdom to Peter. They keys to the "House of David" that Jesus received from the Father according to Isaiah 22: 20-24, are the same keys Jesus Christ passed on to Peter. Jesus' words in Mt. 16 continue to echo what is prophesied in Isaiah, that whatever Peter (the office he holds) binds on earth will be bound in Heaven, and whatever he looses on earth will be loosed in Heaven. It is absolutely clear that Jesus' authority was entrusted to men (otherwise, why would you even trust the Bible, it was written by men) under the inspiration/protection of the Holy Spirit. God has worked through men throughout salvation history, and it is no different today. Moses sinned, but the Pentatauch (attributed to him) is the inerrant word of God. The books written by David, inerrant, despite his personal sins. Same for the Gospel writers and the apostolic writers of the NT


B]"...Who can forgive sins but God only?[/B] (Mark 2:7)
Funny, the scribes said the same thing in Matthew 9.

The Vatican's previous/present forgiveness of sins through "indulgences" constitute bribery and pay-offs received by the RCC. A Big No-No.
Yep, sinful men have abused their power in the church. The doctrines are inerrant, not the people.
Jesus said: "...It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.(Matthew 21:13)

Rome capitalized on the 1st-Century Christian movement and replaced its previous pagan gods with substitute "saints". Basically, the Vatican had absorbed "Christianity" as a source of acquiring wealth, political power and control over people.
Source of this version of history comes from where? Christianity was "absorbed" in the very first century? Wow! So Christ's promise that the gates of hell would not prevail didn't last for any length of time, did it?

A person does not need to belong to any man-made "organized religion" to receive the Free Gift of Salvation.
But, if the Lord did establish a religion, a church to whom was entrusted the path to salvation, then I certainly do need to belong to that church. My reading/interpretation of the Bible tells me that that is exactly what He did. The Holy Spirit has guided me, and I know I have the Truth.That is why the the Vatican is wrong to institute the belief that it is the Only True Church on earth and why it has always been wrong to coerce its followers with the fear tactic of "pay-up or be doomed."
"pay up or be doomed". Could you please cite the Vatican document that makes such a statement? or are you bearing false witness?
One more thing: People need to confess their sins directly to God ONLY and in their own words asking Him for forgiveness.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)

Jesus (not any other religious leader) is the Only Mediator between God and mankind.
So then, you must throw out the words of the Apostles, and at most, stick with only the Gospels since those are the only record we have to Jesus' words. Even those, though, come through men. Either God protects His word, or He does not. You cannot have it both ways.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5)
Quoting Timothy?? How dare you quote any words other than Jesus Christ. Idolator!!
God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.[/QUOTE]
 

libby

New Member
Nucklesack said:
I can and do judge truth (or did you mean Truth) by a human standard.

but then i'm a christ punching atheist
If you are an atheist, then I am not necessarily talking to you. I cannot argue Truth with you from a book you do not accept, nor can I argue the Incarnation of God with you if you do not believe in God.
 

Flirple

New Member
libby said:
If you are an atheist, then I am not necessarily talking to you. I cannot argue Truth with you from a book you do not accept, nor can I argue the Incarnation of God with you if you do not believe in God.
nope you cant, just as i cant show you the error of your ways (that was a joke)
 

Starman3000m

New Member
ItalianScallion said:
:yay: Agreed Nucklesack.
I'd like to tell Starman and a very few others that they're; :deadhorse
Sadly, those " indoctrinated die hards" won't learn until judgment day that the pope is not God. Their god maybe, but not the true God.

Exactly! But now they cannot claim that they were never told. As far as the claim that Peter was the "first pope" - it's a blatant misinterpretation of Jesus' words to Peter.

Jesus was saying that what was revealed to Peter is The Rock. Not Peter; the foundational Truth that Jesus Is The Son of the Living God!

As far as the pope being God's "Vicar" on earth, sure Catholics have been indoctrinated to believe that - just like Muslims are indoctrinated to believe that Muhammad was the "last and final prophet sent to mankind."
 

libby

New Member
Starman3000m said:
Exactly! But now they cannot claim that they were never told. As far as the claim that Peter was the "first pope" - it's a blatant misinterpretation of Jesus' words to Peter.

Jesus was saying that what was revealed to Peter is The Rock. Not Peter; the foundational Truth that Jesus Is The Son of the Living God!

As far as the pope being God's "Vicar" on earth, sure Catholics have been indoctrinated to believe that - just like Muslims are indoctrinated to believe that Muhammad was the "last and final prophet sent to mankind."

Starman, the Holy Spirit lives in me, too, and has guided my interpretation of the Bible. It is the Holy Spirit that has told me that, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church" does, indeed, institute the authority in question. Peter's statement of faith came two or three sentences before Jesus'. I'm sure you've been all over the Aramaic translation of petro/petra, etc, so I will refrain. Suffice to say that you have no business calling anyone's interpretation wrong, unless you claim infallibility for yourself. Otherwise, the paradigm you use for your own faith, that the infallible interpreter that is the Holy Spirit guides you, I claim equally for myself.
 

ItalianScallion

Harley Rider
Bavarian said:
The Pope is the Vicar of Christ on Earth, he never claimed to be God.
Vicar comes from the word "vicarious" which means in place of. NO ONE is in place of God here on earth except Jesus. It was the catholic leadership that brainwashed most catholics into thinking the pope is God by calling him "The Holy Father", a title reserved for God alone in John 17 v 11. You people are the ones who hold him up as deity and that is blasphemy, as Jesus was accused of BUT He was the ONLY one who could make that claim. Oh great, Starman, now I'm :deadhorse :lmao: :lmao:
 
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