Pope Benedict's Warning to Theologians

[Starman3000m]

Not sure you caught my point....


I'm in love with my wife, but I'm not in love with her photograph, even though I might kiss it.

I worship God, but I don't worship his statues even though I might kneel in front of it.

To spell it out: Kneeling in front of a statue does not constitute idolatry, any more than kissing a photo of your wife constitutes adultery.

hey there toxick -

Well, do as you wish. The thing I see here is that anyone who kneels before a statue that "represents God" is honoring the statue - not God. The statue is (by the very act of kneeling before it) being given the power to receive reverence and I don't think that God intended for an image of any kind to be honored in His place.

But again, do as you wish.

You can continue to kiss the picture of your wife; it's not adultry if the picture is of your wife.

 

[Starman3000m]

Thank you my friend! All I care about here is salvation. I let God do the changing. If someone's beliefs didn't affect their salvation, I wouldn't even waste my words here. For example: if someone believes that the earth is millions or billions of years old, SO WHAT? I don't but that won't keep them out of heaven, so why argue? But these other issues, I will take them to task on. This is why I said I'm beating a dead horse because, before you came onto the forum, myself and a few others WORE THIS TOPIC OUT!
Again I'll tell ALL OF YOU that if you'd like to hear a great shortwave radio Bible study, on the internet, every night (EXCEPT FRIDAY) from 9:30-10:30PM, check out my website at www.thespiritnet.net There is interaction with people all over the USA and the discussion is great. Click on the link at the bottom of the home page, but remember, we're ONLY hearable between 9:30 & 10:30PM. Thanks!

Keep up the good work, ItalianScallion! I'll plan to tune in to the Internet Bible study. Tried the link but unable to get through right now - will try later.

May God Bless you and yours.

 

[libby]

"God's words are spiritually discerned, libby, that is why many people can read the Holy Bible and still not grasp the actual meaning of the message being conveyed. The Holy Spirit is also our Comforter as well as Teacher and is the seal of Promise whereby we know that we are the Children of God."

Right back at you, Starman. How are you going to prove my interpretation wrong and yours right? You are backing off in our discussion, and that is fine because I know my faith, and the Truths of God have illuminated every dark corner of life. Truly the yoke is easy and the burden light in Christ.
But if there were a third party, new to Christianity, receiving conflicting testimony from us about the Jesus Christ, what would you say he do? Oh, and for fun, let's pretend he's illiterate and cannot read the Bible!

 

[libby]

BTW- I believe you are a sincere Christian, and I am not poking fun. This, however, is a real concernl that Christians should have in their evangelization.

 

[libby]

"C'mon, libby, that is not true at all. Where have I condemned anyone from listening (or reading) words from anyone other than Jesus?"

You have condemned all 256 popes, and all 1 billion Catholics of today. You and Italian accuse the pope of putting himself in the place of God, and I will not let that go uncorrected.
His office is no different from those held by the apostles, and I will either make sure you understand it, or I will do it for anyone else who happens to be reading this thread.
So my point stands. If you think the pope is an impediment to God, if you think listening to him within his capacity as as pope interferes with my ability to hear Jesus Christ, then you must apply the same standard to those who wrote the NT.
Have you ever actually read anything a pope has written? (excepting the out of context headlines) Have you ever thought that another Christian might have something, some insight, that might be a great gift to you?

 

[ItalianScallion]

Keep up the good work, ItalianScallion! I'll plan to tune in to the Internet Bible study. Tried the link but unable to get through right now - will try later.

May God Bless you and yours.

Remember, the net can only be heard from 9:30pm-10:30pm each night EXCEPT Friday. If you click the link any other time you won't hear anything. Thanks!

 

[Toxick]

Well, do as you wish.

Just to clarify, I am not a Catholic, and I do not kneel before statues. I will do as I wish, but I'm not talking about myself nor justifying my actions. I'm just trying to point out that you're completely misrepresenting the behavior of someone else.


I have my beefs with the Catholic Church, but IMO idolatry (and Mary-worship, and other such made-up garbage issues) are silly and superficial arguments which distract from real issues.

The thing I see here is that anyone who kneels before a statue that "represents God" is honoring the statue - not God.

I could not disagree with you more.

If I kneel at the foot of a statue and pray to God, I am still praying TO GOD. Personally, I don't see the need to be near a statue to commune with the creator, but some people feel that it adds focus to their prayer.... but it does not become the object of their prayer.

To doggedly insist that it does, when you've been told repeatedly that it's not the case, is no better than when people call Christians polytheists (because of the Trinity), when you know as well as I do that that's simply not true.

The statue is (by the very act of kneeling before it) being given the power to receive reverence and

Bah!

When I stand before a flag and feel patriotic, do you think my patriotism is directed at the flag itself? Am I a traitor when I pledge allegiance to the flag, as opposed to pledging allegiance to The United States of 'Deed By-God America?

I would die defending the USA and the principles for which she stands, but I would NOT die (or even inconvenience myself very much) to protect a flag. The flag is a piece of colorful cloth. Nothing more. And when I look at a flag and place my hand over my heart, I am thinking of America... not the piece of cloth I'm staring at.

The statue of Jesus is just a piece of rock. Nothing more. And if I stand before it and pray, I'm praying to Jesus... not the piece of rock I'm looking at.



Are you even trying to see my point or are you simply dismissing the things I've said out of hand? Because when you say something like this:

You can continue to kiss the picture of your wife; it's not adultry if the picture is of your wife.

... and then stubbornly continue to insist that praying near a statue is idolatry, I can't help but think that you're simply refusing to accept anything but a set of your own preconceived notions (which IMO are flat out incorrect).

 

[Roughidle]

I've prayed to the porcelain god on a few occasions...hope I don't loose favor in the eyes of the liquid plumber.

 

[Makavide]

Bible study question

Thank you my friend! All I care about here is salvation. I let God do the changing. If someone's beliefs didn't affect their salvation, I wouldn't even waste my words here. For example: if someone believes that the earth is millions or billions of years old, SO WHAT? I don't but that won't keep them out of heaven, so why argue? But these other issues, I will take them to task on. This is why I said I'm beating a dead horse because, before you came onto the forum, myself and a few others WORE THIS TOPIC OUT!
Again I'll tell ALL OF YOU that if you'd like to hear a great shortwave radio Bible study, on the internet, every night (EXCEPT FRIDAY) from 9:30-10:30PM, check out my website at www.thespiritnet.net There is interaction with people all over the USA and the discussion is great. Click on the link at the bottom of the home page, but remember, we're ONLY hearable between 9:30 & 10:30PM. Thanks!

Why is it that Catholics are admonished, for attending their Confraternity of Christian Doctrine (CCD) where we learn about the Bible as well as the historical interpretations and Catholic Doctrine (Sacred Traditions), with the phrase “all you need is the Bible and the Holy Spirit will lead you in its understanding.”. Yet you all talk about attending Bible Study where you all share your own interpretations or Reverend so and so said it this way thoughts . And why is it, when I attended a non-Catholic service, after hearing the Gospel proclaimed the minister said “What Mark was saying…”.

So, what is the difference between our 2000 years of sacred Tradition and your minister, who attended 6 years of seminary schools, understanding of the Bible?

 

[Bavarian]

So, what is the difference between our 2000 years of sacred Tradition and your minister, who attended 6 years of seminary schools, understanding of the Bible?

As the saying goes, "Any protestant with a Bible is his own Pope". That is why you see so many different protestant sects. Whereas the Catholic Church has the Magisterium and Deposit of Faith to guide us in knowing what is true, what is not, and what the scripture says.

 

[Starman3000m]

"C'mon, libby, that is not true at all. Where have I condemned anyone from listening (or reading) words from anyone other than Jesus?"

You have condemned all 256 popes, and all 1 billion Catholics of today. You and Italian accuse the pope of putting himself in the place of God, and I will not let that go uncorrected.
His office is no different from those held by the apostles, and I will either make sure you understand it, or I will do it for anyone else who happens to be reading this thread.
So my point stands. If you think the pope is an impediment to God, if you think listening to him within his capacity as as pope interferes with my ability to hear Jesus Christ, then you must apply the same standard to those who wrote the NT.
Have you ever actually read anything a pope has written? (excepting the out of context headlines) Have you ever thought that another Christian might have something, some insight, that might be a great gift to you?

libby, the Apostles were not to have any "apostolic successors" as Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would be sent to guide the Apostles and subsequent believers into his Truth. The teachings from the New Testament are first-hand accounts of those who walked with and saw our Lord and Saviour. They give us helpful advice for those of future ages to draw closer to God through faith in Jesus. It is from those teachings that ministers draw from.
(BTW: You may already know that each of the Apostles represented one of the Twelve Tribes of Israel. Thus, there is no longer to be a "head figure" on this earth since the office of Apostleship ended 2000 years ago.

As far as listening to others, sure, there are teachers of God's Word but we are warned not to just believe what we hear if something does not sound right - we are to check things against scripture to see if they are true. We are also to use the Word of God to divide truth from error for how it applies in the church and in our lives. Again, according to the Holy Bible, the only true source of knowledge of God's Word is revealed through the Holy Spirit who indwells each believer and helps us to spiritually comprehend the meanings of God's Words.

I do not doubt your sincerity in trusting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, libby, and that is the most important relationship to have. Apart fom that, I know we have differences in theological doctrine and at this point I'd like to leave it there. It is futile to continue to allow those differences to perpetuate the heated debates between all of us here since the differences have been going on for hundreds of years and will continue until Christ returns. The main point is to live today for the Lord and allow His Guidance to get us through each day. We have each had our say and I pray for God's Peace to be with all.

 

[libby]

Well, we can leave it there, Starman.
I do not post too often on these forums, but you can be sure that I'll step in if I see any mis-representations or mis-understandings of the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Since you close with a lesson on soteriology, so will I.
The NT accounts are not all first hand. Luke was not an apostle, but a companion of Paul, who was not a "first hand" apostle either. (although his personal commisson designated him as a holder of the office.) Yet Luke is accepted as the author of the divinely inspired Gospel, as well as Acts.

So clearly God has chosen men beyond the original 12, and it is from this Biblical precedent, as well as myriad other Scriptures, that I hold firm to the universal church which today is identified as the Catholic Church.
May God bless you and give you His peace.

 

[Bavarian]

libby, the Apostles were not to have any "apostolic successors" as Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would be sent to guide the Apostles and subsequent believers into his Truth. The teachings from the New Testament are first-hand accounts of those who walked with and saw our Lord and Saviour. They give us helpful advice for those of future ages to draw closer to God through faith in Jesus. It is from those teachings that ministers draw from.
(BTW: You may already know that each of the Apostles represented one of the Twelve Tribes of Israel. Thus, there is no longer to be a "head figure" on this earth since the office of Apostleship ended 2000 years ago.

As far as listening to others, sure, there are teachers of God's Word but we are warned not to just believe what we hear if something does not sound right - we are to check things against scripture to see if they are true. We are also to use the Word of God to divide truth from error for how it applies in the church and in our lives. Again, according to the Holy Bible, the only true source of knowledge of God's Word is revealed through the Holy Spirit who indwells each believer and helps us to spiritually comprehend the meanings of God's Words.

I do not doubt your sincerity in trusting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, libby, and that is the most important relationship to have. Apart fom that, I know we have differences in theological doctrine and at this point I'd like to leave it there. It is futile to continue to allow those differences to perpetuate the heated debates between all of us here since the differences have been going on for hundreds of years and will continue until Christ returns. The main point is to live today for the Lord and allow His Guidance to get us through each day. We have each had our say and I pray for God's Peace to be with all.

Mattias was elected an apostle by the eleven to replace Judas. In the Bible. So, Apostolic succession was in place and the first example given.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Why is it that Catholics are admonished, for attending their Confraternity of Christian Doctrine (CCD) where we learn about the Bible as well as the historical interpretations and Catholic Doctrine (Sacred Traditions), with the phrase “all you need is the Bible and the Holy Spirit will lead you in its understanding.”. Yet you all talk about attending Bible Study where you all share your own interpretations or Reverend so and so said it this way thoughts . And why is it, when I attended a non-Catholic service, after hearing the Gospel proclaimed the minister said “What Mark was saying…”. So, what is the difference between our 2000 years of sacred Tradition and your minister, who attended 6 years of seminary schools, understanding of the Bible?

First, they are not MY interpretations of the Bible. Most of the teachings are clear and understandable. The problem is indoctrination (brainwashing) by a group of lost people. Tell me why, if we have the same Holy Spirit, do we come up with different understandings of Scriptures? It's because some people listen to their leaders and NOT the Bible. In places where the Bible is unclear, (and there are lots of them), THEN we can say I think it means this or that. In matters of salvation, who God is, who to pray to & worship, IT IS CRYSTAL CLEAR! My beef with anyone, not just catholics, is that they won't adjust their thinking from man's teaching to that of God's (The Bible). Jesus told the hardheaded (LOST) Pharisees to NEVER let TRADITION override the Word of God! (Matthew 15 v 6). Paul said if someone comes along with a gospel other than this one, let them be ETERNALLY cursed! (Galatians 1 v 6-8). There are times when someone needs to explain Scripture to one who doesn't understand it. That's why we read it then explain it. The problem here is that even though Scripture is clear in it's meaning, some people aren't saved (or have ulterior motives) and they change it's meaning. I'll give 2 examples to think about. The catholic church can AND HAS made money on their purgatory lie and their graven images business. For this reason, they removed the 2nd commandment and split the 10th one into 2 parts to retain 10 of them! Is this TRADITION OK with you all? The Bible CLEARLY speaks against them BOTH but will you people change your mind about them? NO! Beware of judgment day! If you don't agree with this, your gripe is with God NOT ME. Again, not hatefulness here, just trying to get the truth out.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Mattias was elected an apostle by the eleven to replace Judas. In the Bible. So, Apostolic succession was in place and the first example given.

Sorry, Bavarian, wrong again. Matthias was chosen to replace Judas, yes, but this was only so that the 12 thrones could be filled in Heaven since Judas didn't make it. (Matthew 22 v 30 & Revelation 4 v 4). The Apostolic age ended with the 12. Paul is called an Apostle of Christ but that is only an honorary title. He was never included in the 12.

 

[libby]

Italian, do you have any idea what you are talking about, or do you just make blind accusations?
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

"2066 The division and numbering of the Commandments have varied in the course of history. The present catechism follows the division of the Commandments established by St. Augustine, which has become traditional in the Catholic Church. It is also that of the Lutheran confessions. The Greek Fathers worked out a slightly different division, which is found in the Orthodox Churches and Reformed communities."

The RCC has made no declaration about a right or wrong version of the commandments. Remembering that the Bible was not written with chapter and verse, you may want to look again at Exodus. You will find that Scripture does not number the commandments either your way or my way. It is simply a matter of getting the content in it's entirety into the Decalogue.

And for graven images...who was it that commanded Moses to put a bronze serpent upon a pole, so that any Israelites who had been bitten by a snake and looked upon it would be healed. God! And this was after His admonition against making graven images! So clearly God had something else in mind when He spoke of graven images, like actually believing the stone/marble statue itself had power.
Let's not forget about the cherubim or seraphim (can't remember which) that God instructed to be placed on the Ark of the Covenant. Graven images?? I doubt it.
Purgatory most certainly does have Biblical foundations, and I'll refer you to www.scripturecatholic.com
for the multiplicity of verses.
Do you ever consider for one second that you are the one who has been indoctrinated?? Your theology doesn't make sense, and the proof is in the very fact that you and I do not agree on very important doctrines, yet we both have Scripture to back up what we believe. God did not institute confusion.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Italian, do you have any idea what you are talking about, or do you just make blind accusations?
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
"2066 The division and numbering of the Commandments have varied in the course of history. The present catechism follows the division of the Commandments established by St. Augustine, which has become traditional in the Catholic Church. It is also that of the Lutheran confessions. The Greek Fathers worked out a slightly different division, which is found in the Orthodox Churches and Reformed communities."
The RCC has made no declaration about a right or wrong version of the commandments. Remembering that the Bible was not written with chapter and verse, you may want to look again at Exodus. You will find that Scripture does not number the commandments either your way or my way. It is simply a matter of getting the content in it's entirety into the Decalogue.
And for graven images...who was it that commanded Moses to put a bronze serpent upon a pole, so that any Israelites who had been bitten by a snake and looked upon it would be healed. God! And this was after His admonition against making graven images! So clearly God had something else in mind when He spoke of graven images, like actually believing the stone/marble statue itself had power.
Let's not forget about the cherubim or seraphim (can't remember which) that God instructed to be placed on the Ark of the Covenant. Graven images?? I doubt it.
Purgatory most certainly does have Biblical foundations, and I'll refer you to www.scripturecatholic.com
for the multiplicity of verses.
Do you ever consider for one second that you are the one who has been indoctrinated?? Your theology doesn't make sense, and the proof is in the very fact that you and I do not agree on very important doctrines, yet we both have Scripture to back up what we believe. God did not institute confusion.

Dear Libby, you are confused (God isn't) but you don't believe it so I'll only spend one more round discussing this with you. And please don't put catholic teachings up for me to read ("from the catechism of the catholic church"). It means nothing to me if it differs from the Bible.
OK, IN CATHOLIC SCHOOL LIBBY, I was taught 10 commandments and there was NO graven image one. Why? They couldn't sell their statues of Jesus, Mary, Joseph and others AS THEY STILL DO TODAY if they taught THAT commandment. Is it in their catechism today Libby? Then they separated the 10th one into; thou shalt not covet your neighbors GOODS and thou shalt not covet your neighbors WIFE, when the Bible has them as one! No denying that Libby, verses or no verses. There were 10 "thou shalt not's" and any kid can count them without chapters & verses!
Next, who cares what Augustine, greek fathers, the lutheran confession and the catholic church says IF THEY CONTRADICT THE BIBLE?
Next, the people were told to just LOOK at the serpent on the pole and NOT worship it. The key is worship here. We are NOT to make an image of anything AT ALL to worship it as the catholics do Mary, Joseph and saint Anybody they can make money selling statues of! The cherubim stuff doesn't even apply here. No one worshipped them. What was inside the Ark is what mattered.
Next, purgatory is satan's favorite lie. How he LOVES to make people think they can be saved AFTER they die! You must get your head out of your catholic lie books and into the Bible. Hebrews 9 v 27- "just as man is destined to die once then face the judgment"; no matter what your church teaches, there is no purgatory. Your main problem, as with most catholics, is that they put their doctrines ahead of everything, yes, even the Bible. That's indoctrination. If they didn't, they wouldn't stay there and they would adjust their thinking to fit Scripture. Although you say you do, you don't and until you do, we'll never agree on these issues. If anything is above the Bible, then the Bible isn't God's Word. If it were minor issues we disagreed on, I wouldn't even be speaking here, but these are serious issues. The Holy Spirit will not tell me one thing and you another on the same issue. You can have the last word my friend but this is why I said to Starman, I'm beating a dead horse.

 

[libby]

The reason for my posting the CCC was not for the singular purpose of educating you. As I've said before, there are others who may be reading and I will be sure to clarify for them, from the source, the real position the RCC holds, so that they will not assume what you say is true.
You think I've been indoctrinated, and I doubt any evidence of my independent study will change your mind about that. There are many "Bible Christians" who previously believed the way you do, and without being coerced by any wicked nuns have come to accept the Catholic Church. Scott Hahn, Francis Beckwith, Rob Evans, to name a few. I know there are many who have left the church, so don't bother me with that, because my point is not that there are converts, my point is that someone can be Catholic through independent study as opposed to "indoctrination".
I do not believe for one second that the Catholic schools you attended taught you that the statues themselves were gods. The church has not ever taught such a ridiculous doctrine and you are most certainly are bearing false witness. I asked Starman (who has chosen not to answer my questions) and I will ask you. Are you going to tell me that you have never held your Bible close while you pray?? Have you never put your head down on the Bible after reading the word of God, in contemplation?? Does you Bible get thrown down next to the potty, or do you find a more appropriate place to keep it? If you have done any of those things don't you dare accuse Catholics of idol worship. There are non-Catholics on this board who have seen the absurdity of your claim, are you too proud to admit you're off the mark?
I have not accused you of anything heretical throughout our discourse, unlike the treatment you and Starman choose to give to Catholics. I do not question your sincerity and I will not make false statements about your faith. But, I will defend my faith and the Church vehemently.
You clearly do not understand the doctrine of Purgatory. I've provided a comprehensive source of Biblical foundations for it, with which you are free to disagree. However, at the very least, as a Christian, you should have the wisdom to refrain from judging the motives of those who teach or believe in purgatory, yet you insist that their motives are evil and for their own gain.

 

[Radiant1]

my point is that someone can be Catholic through independent study as opposed to "indoctrination".

To ram home libby's point...

As an adult after much study of numerous religions and after studying various Christian practices I knew without a doubt that Catholic/Orthodox (i.e. Apostolic) was The Way ... and with no coersion but by the Holy Spirit. It wasn't until after I made my decision that I even stepped foot into a Catholic Church. I am a Catholic convert that nobody can claim was "indoctrinated".

 

[ItalianScallion]

You think I've been indoctrinated, and I doubt any evidence of my independent study will change your mind about that. There are many "Bible Christians" who previously believed the way you do, and without being coerced by any wicked nuns have come to accept the Catholic Church. Scott Hahn, Francis Beckwith, Rob Evans, to name a few. I know there are many who have left the church, so don't bother me with that, because my point is not that there are converts, my point is that someone can be Catholic through independent study as opposed to "indoctrination".

(I'm replying because you asked me to). It doesn't matter how they got there, the fact is they are there NOW, hook, line & sinker! If you did a true independent unbiased study, you wouldn't have used study materials that led you towards catholicism. (Use the Bible, it's very unbiased). And I wouldn't call someone a "Bible Christian" if they go backwards into a group that has many unbiblical practices. When I got saved, I tried to go back to a catholic church with my parents but I couldn't. After a short time, my Spirit was very uncomfortable there. God opened my eyes to the unbiblical things they did and He told me to get out. Also, I know 2 people that went from a very good Baptist church to catholicism. (FYI: they both had mental issues). I have another friend who's wife recently converted to catholicism but he can't accept it, so they go to 2 different churches now.

I do not believe for one second that the Catholic schools you attended taught you that the statues themselves were gods. The church has not ever taught such a ridiculous doctrine and you are most certainly are bearing false witness.

I know what I was taught. We were taught to BOW (kneel) DOWN and pray to Jesus, Mary, Joseph, St.Christopher & other statues & pictures and to ask them to help us. Anything we pray to in place of God is a "god".

I asked Starman (who has chosen not to answer my questions) and I will ask you. Are you going to tell me that you have never held your Bible close while you pray?? Have you never put your head down on the Bible after reading the word of God, in contemplation?? Does you Bible get thrown down next to the potty, or do you find a more appropriate place to keep it? If you have done any of those things don't you dare accuse Catholics of idol worship. There are non-Catholics on this board who have seen the absurdity of your claim, are you too proud to admit you're off the mark?

NO to all of them Libby dear. I don't kiss, hug or bow down to my Bible. It sits on my desk in my basement where I do my nightly radio Bible study. I write in it and I underline some words. It's just a book physically and I have sat it on the floor when I clean my desk off. I ALSO have NO Jesus pictures or crosses or statues of ANY kind in my house. All my family was catholic and they had numerous artifacts all over their houses. For what?!! None of them can save you! Just more catholic indoctrination.

I have not accused you of anything heretical throughout our discourse, unlike the treatment you and Starman choose to give to Catholics. I do not question your sincerity and I will not make false statements about your faith. But, I will defend my faith and the Church vehemently.

I can give you 3 full pages of heretical doctrines on them if you want but what's the use? I have not accused you by my own words but by the Words of God so, as I said earlier, your gripe is not with me it's with God. All I can do is refute false teachings as God told us to. I'm not judging whether you are saved or not. If you made ANY statement about my beliefs being wrong, I would still refer you to the Bible to disprove me, and not to ANY other writings.

You clearly do not understand the doctrine of Purgatory. I've provided a comprehensive source of Biblical foundations for it, with which you are free to disagree. However, at the very least, as a Christian, you should have the wisdom to refrain from judging the motives of those who teach or believe in purgatory, yet you insist that their motives are evil and for their own gain.

Oh but I do understand it. Again, your sources are flawed. There is NO Biblical foundation for purgatory. If you are referring to 2 Macabees 12 v 39-46, you'll need to remember that it is an Apocryphal book and is not inspired by God. I have a Biblical command to expose false teachings. Jesus did and He told us to in many verses. Paul did too. I am a spectator here Libby. I don't judge someones motives, I watch what they do and then comment on it. I know ALL about the catholic "side shows". I went to an Italian festival last Sunday (AT A CATHOLIC NURSING HOME) and there were 2 HUGE stands where they were selling statues, pictures, rosary beads, holy water, and other "blessed" (right!) things. What judging of their motives could I MISS there? MONEY in exchange for false hopes. Indulgences, praying for someone WHO IS ALREADY DEAD, infant baptism, etc, etc, etc! Face it Libby, they're money changers! There's nothing wrong with making money for the church, but at least do it honestly.
Finally, if you would, answer one question for me. What does the catholic church believe the source of truth is? Thanks, Libby