Pope says atheists can do good and go to heaven

[b23hqb]

See, and that's the way I feel about it. People like to put human emotions on God, but I have to believe that if there really is a God he is above that sort of thing. It seems absurd that God would be petty like that and go, "No, loser, you didn't believe in me so you can't come to my party. Nyah! In fact, I'ma unfriend you on Facebook, so there!"

I like to think that if there is a God, he's better than humans.

You can bet on that - God is better than all humans combined - past, present, and future. Pope included.

God, petty? The same God that gave His Son to be sacrificed for sin? You call that petty?

What have you sacrificed for anything? Surely, by your words, nothing to deal with you r ineptness with your sin. Or life, as you and most will call it.

Sin has a price for every man - and sacrifice is not petty.

"When He rolls up His sleeves
He ain't just putting on the ritz
(Our God is an awesome God)

There's thunder in His footsteps
And lightning in His fists
(Our God is an awesome God)

And the Lord wasn't joking
When He kicked 'em out of Eden
It wasn't for no reason
That He shed His blood
His return is very close
And so you better be believing that
Our God is an awesome God"

Petty words that describe the reason for the cross?

There was a very reason that His blood was shed.

Hell is stuffed with good people. Heaven is occupied by saved sinners.

Wake up, vblonde. Along with so many others. Your eternity rests upon it.

Dwell on it.

 

[hotcoffee]

This is the same god that "have his only son" and allowed him to be put to death to atone for our sons, right?

Seems like a pretty selfless thing to do. if you believe in christ as god I would think you would believe he would be Christlike towards good people.

Check out my post on John 17:20-26.

Some time ago a self professed atheist came into the forums asking to help Christians with their charities. He's not willing to believe in God but he wants to do good.

In other words, that atheist is thumbing his nose at God.... but wants the reward..... If he was standing near me in a field.... I'd move over not to get hit by lightning....

 

[Zguy28]

See, and that's the way I feel about it. People like to put human emotions on God, but I have to believe that if there really is a God he is above that sort of thing. It seems absurd that God would be petty like that and go, "No, loser, you didn't believe in me so you can't come to my party. Nyah! In fact, I'ma unfriend you on Facebook, so there!"

I like to think that if there is a God, he's better than humans.

Aren't you putting emotions on God? Saying he is this way or that way? If I said you were one way, but you said differently about yourself, I assume you would want everybody to believe you, not me. So it is with God. He has revealed himself via Scripture, via the salvation history of. Israel, and most climatically via Jesus. Christ.

Who is the liar but the person who denies that Jesus is the Christ ? This one is the antichrist: the person who denies the Father and the Son. Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either. The person who confesses the Son has the Father also. (1 John 2:22, 23 NET)

Now this is his commandment: that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he gave us the commandment. (1 John 3:23 NET)

 

[vraiblonde]

Aren't you putting emotions on God? Saying he is this way or that way?

Honestly, I couldn't care less. To me you all are talking about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny: it's all hypothetical. I'm merely pointing out the inconsistencies in your belief system.

"Tooth Fairy is the epitome of love and forgiveness, but man if you piss her off...watch out!"

:shrug:

 

[glhs837]

See, and that's the way I feel about it. People like to put human emotions on God, but I have to believe that if there really is a God he is above that sort of thing. It seems absurd that God would be petty like that and go, "No, loser, you didn't believe in me so you can't come to my party. Nyah! In fact, I'ma unfriend you on Facebook, so there!"

I like to think that if there is a God, he's better than humans.

This has always mirrored my thoughts on this. I see my Christian post this thing on FB, "If you deny me in front of your friends, I'll deny you in front of my Father". And that strikes me as a pretty high school drama thing to do. Always said a God so petty as to send me to eternal hellfire, even though I have lived a good life and done many good things, simply because I don't bow to him? You don't get love through threats.

 

[PsyOps]

Then according to Jesus, God will be going to Hell.

For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
Luke 14:11

Therefore it says, "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble."
James 4:6

(James also said, "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.")

It just pisses you off that Bob may get into Heaven anyway, even though he hasn't spent his life bowing to the glory of God and accepting Jesus as his savior. Makes you feel like all that time you spent in church was wasted.



You don't make the rules, nor do I. God gets to decide and you just have to go along with it.

Those verses are directed towards PEOPLE; people that God created! God (IF you believe in God) is the creator of everything. Nothing exists without God. Not you, not Bob, not the air you breathe, nothing… Those who believe in God are thankful that God created this universe we exist in. We are humbled that God made us human.

And you said it, as I said it before… we don’t get to make the rules. If God is the Creator, the Creator gets to decide how His creation is done. God does not need us. God exists without us. But because we are required to honor Him, praise Him, and thank Him for all we have demands that God does not have to be humble as THE CREATOR. What He has created He has the right and power to destroy. It all belongs to Him.

I know you understand this stuff, but because you don’t believe you don’t accept it. You’re asking me to prove things to you that you refuse to accept.

 

[vraiblonde]

Ha ha! I'm going to Heaven and didn't even have to be all sanctimonious and annoy everyone around me to get it.

Ha ha! Yay me!

 

[PsyOps]

Ha ha! I'm going to Heaven and didn't even have to be all sanctimonious and annoy everyone around me to get it.

Ha ha! Yay me!

Errr... well... yeah... if you say s...

You are a nice person.

 

[vraiblonde]

Errr... well... yeah... if you say s...

You are a nice person.

You're just saying that because I told you you look like Josh Hartnett.

 

[Zguy28]

This has always mirrored my thoughts on this. I see my Christian post this thing on FB, "If you deny me in front of your friends, I'll deny you in front of my Father". And that strikes me as a pretty high school drama thing to do. Always said a God so petty as to send me to eternal hellfire, even though I have lived a good life and done many good things, simply because I don't bow to him? You don't get love through threats.

Not threats, consequences. BIG difference.

We were made by God to glorify and enjoy Him. He made creation, so He sets the standards for right and wrong, good and evil. He is the lawgiver, and sin is transgressing the law. Transgressions of the law have consequences, do they not? So why would God, who created and formed everything, the original Lawgiver, just let you get a pass?

Would you give a drunk driver a pass because they bought a meal for a homeless person once upon a time?

Man broke the law and a covenant with God which resulted in death. Just be thankful He actually loves you enough to make a way to pardon you from the judgement and death everyone deserves.

John 3

“For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world that He might condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 Anyone who believes in Him is not condemned, but anyone who does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the One and Only Son of God.

19 “This, then, is the judgment: The light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who practices wicked things hates the light and avoids it, so that his deeds may not be exposed. 21 But anyone who lives by the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be shown to be accomplished by God.”

This passage clearly shows that people are already condemned and refutes any notion that people who have never heard of Jesus realistically have a shot at eternal life. People love darkness and need a savior, otherwise just telling you the Gospel is damning news, not good news.

However, I think verse 21 kind of gets to the Pope's point. Good works point people to faith and Christ.

 

[PsyOps]

You're just saying that because I told you you look like Josh Hartnett.

LOL... Well, I do consider that a compliment, even though I pretty-much loathe almost everything Hollywood. I had to look him up because I didn't even know who he was. Good actor and good looking - if I say so myself.

But... no... You are truly a giving, caring, and generally nice person. I'd like to think you'd go to heaven, but I don't get to decide and I'm not trying to say I am deciding. I only know what God has told us about this.

A serious question... at what level of 'nice', doing good things will earn you into heaven? How much is required? At what point will God say "you've done enough good things to get into heaven"? The reason why this is important is because God is perfect, without any dirt or stains, without any sin. Given this, He refuses to exist in a place where there are people that are imperfect, with sin, dirty and with many blemishes. No matter how many good things you do, you are still, in His eyes, dirty and full of blemishes.

Think of it as having to go into a cleanroom, a sterile environment. You can claim you are clean and that you’ve done all these things to prove you're clean, but the only way they will let you in is if you put on a cleanroom suit. Those are the rules to ensure the sterile environment remains that way. The same is the case with heaven… you can do all the good things in world but unless you are ‘purified’ or washed in ‘the blood of Jesus’, you don’t get in to God’s sterile (sinless) place.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. – 1 John 1:7

This is what’s required. God made the rules. You can’t just DO good things to get in. We don't get to set the standard in which God must follow. We don't get to tell God what is required to get into heaven. Again, you don't believe so I don't expect you to accept this; but it still is what it is.

 

[glhs837]

Maybe it's my Navy talking, but I was always a results guy. Never cared about who had the shiniest shoes, or had the snappiest salute, but rather who got the mission, be it cleaning toilets or arming bombs, done. A non-believing drunk driver who brought no harm through his actions? Sure, makes more sense to me to let him in than someone who killed an innocent while DUI and then prayed for forgiveness. What good are consequences if you can wash them away with a few words? Even given the same action,with more tragedy brought about by the believer but the believer gets pass? Rigged system, IMHO.


Like I said, if it's true that God is real, and this rigged system is what he set up, I choose not to play along, and take that risk of being wrong about him. We are not supposed to be able to know God, isn't that right? Seems a whole lot of folks are convinced they do........ Given a being who created everything that exists. how could we even claim to begin to comprehend what such a being wants?

 

[Zguy28]

Maybe it's my Navy talking, but I was always a results guy. Never cared about who had the shiniest shoes, or had the snappiest salute, but rather who got the mission, be it cleaning toilets or arming bombs, done. A non-believing drunk driver who brought no harm through his actions? Sure, makes more sense to me to let him in than someone who killed an innocent while DUI and then prayed for forgiveness. What good are consequences if you can wash them away with a few words? Even given the same action,with more tragedy brought about by the believer but the believer gets pass? Rigged system, IMHO.


Like I said, if it's true that God is real, and this rigged system is what he set up, I choose not to play along, and take that risk of being wrong about him. We are not supposed to be able to know God, isn't that right? Seems a whole lot of folks are convinced they do........ Given a being who created everything that exists. how could we even claim to begin to comprehend what such a being wants?

We only know what He revealed Himself. Self-revelation. Other than that, you would be right.

 

[PsyOps]

What good are consequences if you can wash them away with a few words? Even given the same action,with more tragedy brought about by the believer but the believer gets pass? Rigged system, IMHO.

The results are not what you do – what people see on the outside. The results are what’s in your heart. Only you and God really know what’s in your heart. Sometimes ‘good’ people do bad/stupid things. Sometimes 'bad people' do good things. Which have it right in their heart in the eyes of God?

I don’t get that God measures things in terms of how much or how little tragedy your actions may result in. He measures us based on the fact that we are born sinners and, in His eyes He sees very little different between a mass murderer and any other person in terms of sin. If it were possible to understand what it means to be infinitely perfect and comparing any human to that, our mere existence all looks the same to Him. It’s like us looking at sand on the beach. Even though each one is really hugely different in size, shape, mass, what-have-you, if you were to look at sand from its level; from our level they all look the same simply because of vast scope of difference in size.

When talking about God, we’re really busy trying to define things from our perspective, and spend very little time trying to understand things from His perspective; which is perfectly natural. With God things just don’t work on our terms. Again, if you don’t believe in God, that will never make sense to you.

 

[glhs837]

Oh, I"m willing to believe in a God, just not one that can't make up his mind if he knows me down the the thoughts I had over cereal this AM, and is going to either give me eternal bliss or eternal pain and suffering based on how well I stroke his ego, no matter the good or ill I cause in the world, or the one to whom I'm a grain of sand whom he cant be bothered to know in detail, because we all look alike from his 30,000 foot view of us, but will still sentence me to eternal damnation for not believing all the same?

These are the things that cause me to take issue with organized religion.

 

[PsyOps]

Oh, I"m willing to believe in a God, just not one that can't make up his mind if he knows me down the the thoughts I had over cereal this AM, and is going to either give me eternal bliss or eternal pain and suffering based on how well I stroke his ego, no matter the good or ill I cause in the world, or the one to whom I'm a grain of sand whom he cant be bothered to know in detail, because we all look alike from his 30,000 foot view of us, but will still sentence me to eternal damnation for not believing all the same?

These are the things that cause me to take issue with organized religion.

The thing that created everything. Are we even able to comprehend that, let alone assume we know whether God has an ego to stroke? God could wipe everything out and start over again and it wouldn’t make a difference to Him. I guess it’s like a billionaire destroying his Lamborghini Reventon. Annoying? Yes. Did it hurt him financially or in any other way? Not one bit. Drop in the bucket. Easy enough to get another or 10 more or 20 more.

But, I’d like to think the thing that engineered the entire universe knows the ins and outs of it to every intricate detail; to include everything you’re thinking and what’s in your heart.

And for the record… faith in God is not organized religion. Organized religion was invented by people.

 

[Zguy28]

Organized religion was invented by people.

And is one of the biggest cop-outs ever.

 

[PsyOps]

And is one of the biggest cop-outs ever.

Explain please?

 

[glhs837]

The thing that created everything. Are we even able to comprehend that, let alone assume we know whether God has an ego to stroke? God could wipe everything out and start over again and it wouldn’t make a difference to Him. I guess it’s like a billionaire destroying his Lamborghini Reventon. Annoying? Yes. Did it hurt him financially or in any other way? Not one bit. Drop in the bucket. Easy enough to get another or 10 more or 20 more.

But, I’d like to think the thing that engineered the entire universe knows the ins and outs of it to every intricate detail; to include everything you’re thinking and what’s in your heart.

And for the record… faith in God is not organized religion. Organized religion was invented by people.

And where do you, personally, get your information on what it takes to get into heaven? The knowledge that God only lets in believers? From a book, one that has been rewritten countless times by whom over a couple of thousand years through how many languages? That's right, organized religion. Those are the people telling me he insists I worship him for the chance at everlasting life. They could very well have that bit wrong, they were fallible men, generations upon generations of them.

 

[onel0126]

Organized religion was invented by people.

Said lazy people who want to sleep in on Sunday mornings....And yes, a huge cop out.