pro choice Catholics-what is the point

[puggymom]

nevermind...I usually do not get so emotional arguing this...I think I am just in a mood today and should probably remove myself from this debate.

 

[This_person]

Can said 9 year old live (with or without machinery) on it's own?
If not, have at it.

So, a two month old, who could not live on its own (couldn't get the food, prepare it, eat it, etc., so couldn't survive on its own) would be fine to kill (not murder, oh no) for convenience?


That's sad that you think that.

 

[This_person]

Lets take a 30 year old adult.
Who knows what happened, but they're on life support and not what we'd call conscious, but they aren't in a coma
It is determined that they cannot live without it, and the family chooses to take them off of support, rather than suffer.
Are they murderers?

IMO, yes. Absent a living will expressing the specific desires of this adult (which must be true to compare it to abortion), those that starved Terry to death were murderers, as they would be in this scenario.

 

[SingerLady]

Lets take a 30 year old adult.
Who knows what happened, but they're on life support and not what we'd call conscious, but they aren't in a coma
It is determined that they cannot live without it, and the family chooses to take them off of support, rather than suffer.
Are they murderers?

OKAY..... are you serious? (The two have absolutely nothing to do with each other. IMO) When a person is on life support the have a paper they fill out prior to, if anything were to ever happen. Whether or not they wanna be a, "FULL CODE", or to be let go. In the situation that there is no paper work, the family has power of attorney. And if a person is in that much pain to be on life support i don't feel it would be murder to take them off. But a BABY is a different story, the little thing isn't in any pain when they are growing inside of you. But when a dumazz who gets an abortion at 5 months, that baby can feel everything, though unaware of what is going on...........

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

So, a two month old, who could not live on its own (couldn't get the food, prepare it, eat it, etc., so couldn't survive on its own) would be fine to kill (not murder, oh no) for convenience?


That's sad that you think that.

You're good at that.
I mean, not to the point I take you seriously, but to the point to where some poeple would believe your twisting of words to be true.

You missed the "with machinery" part...

If we took machinery out of the equation then we'd be talking about so many more premature babies not living...and thus, abortion would be legal at an even later stage.

IMO, yes. Absent a living will expressing the specific desires of this adult (which must be true to compare it to abortion), those that starved Terry to death were murderers, as they would be in this scenario.

Well see, our opinions differ

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

OKAY..... are you serious? The two have absolutely nothing to do with each other. IMO. When a person is on life support the have a paper they fill out. Whether or not they wanna be a, "FULL CODE", or to be let go. In the situation that there is no paper work, the family has power of attorney. And if a person is in that much pain to be on life support i don't feel it would be murder to take them off. But a BABY is a different story, the little thing isn't in any pain when they are growing inside of you. But when a dumazz who gets an abortion at 5 months, that baby can feel everything, though unaware of what is going on...........

People...you keep me smiling all day long

 

[This_person]

You're good at that.
I mean, not to the point I take you seriously, but to the point to where some poeple would believe your twisting of words to be true.

You missed the "with machinery" part...

Actually, you said "with or without machinery". So, a two month old, without machinery, could not survive on it's own. If you include the machinery of a human providing food, you're talking about the same thing as the baby in the womb.

If we took machinery out of the equation then we'd be talking about so many more premature babies not living...and thus, abortion would be legal at an even later stage.

The mother is the natural machinery by which the baby lives in the womb. Taking it away unnaturally is not a determination of viability - just as not feeding a two month old does not make the two month old "unviable".

Well see, our opinions differ

You think it's okay to starve a person to death?

To compare this to abortion, we have to be talking about a person who needs nothing more than to be fed, kept warm, etc. No "heroic" efforts or machinery, just day to day upkeep o fessentials. No medical issues that can be determined - you just can't communicate with the person. Oh, and you have to acknowledge that in a few months this will stop and the person will recover, if just given the basic necessities of life.

So, given an even playing field in that way, you think it's okay to simply deny the person the essentials of life because you find them inconvenient?

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

You think it's okay to starve a person to death?

I'd prefer they are killed painlessly, but folks like yourself try to keep that option off of the menu

 

[misshelper]

Lets take a 30 year old adult.
Who knows what happened, but they're on life support and not what we'd call conscious, but they aren't in a coma
It is determined that they cannot live without it, and the family chooses to take them off of support, rather than suffer.
Are they murderers?

I will never be in that position.

 

[itsbob]

Quick question. If a Catholic can't be pro-choice, does that mean an athiest can't be pro-life?

I think what they are trying to say is you can't be a Catholic if you have the ability to think for yourself, make your own decisions and have your own opinion.

Accept the brainwashing 100%, no debate, or go elsewhere.

Totalitarian religion.. that's tolerance and Christianity at its best.

 

[sockgirl77]

I will never be in that position.

As if you'd ever turn down a position.

 

[misshelper]

As if you'd ever turn down a position.

I have a living will....

 

[sunflower]

Lets take a 30 year old adult.
Who knows what happened, but they're on life support and not what we'd call conscious, but they aren't in a coma
It is determined that they cannot live without it, and the family chooses to take them off of support, rather than suffer.
Are they murderers?

They did everything they could... They gave that person a chance... Just as I would want

 

[sockgirl77]

I have a living will....

A living will to #### as much as you can before death?

 

[This_person]

I'd prefer they are killed painlessly, but folks like yourself try to keep that option off of the menu

So, if you found your wife/mother/son/daughter/neighbor/whomever simply inconvenient towards your life for having to feed them, knowing they are in no medically precarious position - simply a few months until you can give up your responsibility for them to someone else - you feel you should be able to legally kill them by starvation, or (preferentially to you) painlessly to them?




That's really sad, Johnny.

 

[misshelper]

A living will to #### as much as you can before death?

Yes!!

 

[This_person]

Quick question. If a Catholic can't be pro-choice, does that mean an athiest can't be pro-life?

Actually, there are certain things that make up Christianity - shared beliefs, moral standards, etc. If you're choosing, as a Christian, to uphold only a portion of those beliefs, you're choosing to not fully accept the religion. So, you can be a Christian who is not pro-life like you can be a Jew and a member of the KKK - you just don't get one thing or the other fully.

As far as being an athiest and pro-life or pro-abortion, there is no set of moral standards or common beliefs to be an atheist - there's a shared lack of belief in a diety. Anything else is simply whatever you feel like at the moment without regards to any external standards. If there were external standards, it would be a belief system, which is kind like organized anarchists!

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

So, if you found your wife/mother/son/daughter/neighbor/whomever simply inconvenient towards your life for having to feed them, knowing they are in no medically precarious position - simply a few months until you can give up your responsibility for them to someone else - you feel you should be able to legally kill them by starvation, or (preferentially to you) painlessly to them?

That's really sad, Johnny.

 

[libby]

you were saying there were a core set of beliefs strictly set aside for catholicism. then you said if they don't believe in any of those, they need to find another religion. you were so adament about it before but now you back down and offer me some bs? come on, you can do better than that.

Your assertion was that no religion will agree 100% with the practitioner. It is my belief, based on my understanding of Bible Christianity that there are no set doctrines except accepting Jesus Christ. As pcjohnny misunderstood and now understands, I am reproaching only those who claim Catholicism. I have no arguement with any other Christian denomination because I don't know their doctrines.
It is my feeling that a Catholic who does not believe the doctrines the Catholic Church teaches should adopt another faith.

 

[Beta84]

Your assertion was that no religion will agree 100% with the practitioner. It is my belief, based on my understanding of Bible Christianity that there are no set doctrines except accepting Jesus Christ. As pcjohnny misunderstood and now understands, I am reproaching only those who claim Catholicism. I have no arguement with any other Christian denomination because I don't know their doctrines.
It is my feeling that a Catholic who does not believe the doctrines the Catholic Church teaches should adopt another faith.

still not listing the doctrines...there is difference between believing only 1 and believing all but 1. if they match up with Catholicism the most, except for that 1 thing, you're trying to kick them out. You're wrong to do that. Plus your church would go down the toilet if it only kept people who followed the way it sounds like you do. It likes the money, so it is very willing to take in whoever wants in.