pro choice Catholics-what is the point

[This_person]

That's an easy one.
Doc has a degree

So, from the point of view of the ends, the doc is basically just a contract killer for the mother or father, right?

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

Stipulations (like war, state ordered actions punishing someone for their actions) take into account the differing nature of motives for killing someone.

There are huge differences, and to deny that is intellectually dishonest.

I agree.
And that is why you cannot deny the difference between a viable 30 week old fetus, and a non-viable 15 week fetus.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

So, from the point of view of the ends, the doc is basically just a contract killer for the mother or father, right?

Exactly...and for the same reasons as only a doctor can prescribe certain meds.
There is a reason these things are limited to the action of someone who earns that degree.

 

[sockgirl77]

I will.
Give me a minute.

Do you know how to count?

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

Socki. Got the cached page to come up.
You're using THAT as proof is like someone using a link to somd.com to prove something happend

 

[This_person]

I agree.
And that is why you cannot deny the difference between a viable 30 week old fetus, and a non-viable 15 week fetus.

Depends on how you define "viable".

If the baby could survive where it was voluntarily, knowlingly placed by two people, then it's viable up until it can be safely placed in someone else's custody, or dies naturally.

If you define viable as "able to make it" when unnaturally ripped from a safe, secure, voluntary-instituted environment, then you are incorrectly defining viable. You are saying that a human isn't "viable" with a vacuum hooked up to their body, with a blender grinding them up, and therefore doing that to someone shouldn't be considered "murdering" them.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

Do you know how to count?

Until I run out of toes, yes.

 

[misshelper]

I am not buying it...I would remember something like that happening...You sure it wasn't 40 weeks

No, it was 20 weeks, she delivered at University Of MD. She was a lil over a lb. :shrug:

 

[sockgirl77]

Socki. Got the cached page to come up.
You're using THAT as proof is like someone using a link to somd.com to prove something happend

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

Depends on how you define "viable".

If the baby could survive where it was voluntarily, knowlingly placed by two people, then it's viable up until it can be safely placed in someone else's custody, or dies naturally.

If you define viable as "able to make it" when unnaturally ripped from a safe, secure, voluntary-instituted environment, then you are incorrectly defining viable. You are saying that a human isn't "viable" with a vacuum hooked up to their body, with a blender grinding them up, and therefore doing that to someone shouldn't be considered "murdering" them.

Viable, as I am using it, is in reference to the baby being able to live ANYWHERE other than the mother's womb...whether naturally or unnaturally removed is moot

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

No, it was 20 weeks, she delivered at University Of MD. She was a lil over a lb. :shrug:

How long did it need incubation?

 

[sockgirl77]

How long did it need incubation?

WTF does that matter if she lived?

 

[misshelper]

How long did it need incubation?

She died 2 times and went through hell, so did her family. She spent a long time in the hospital.

Like it was mentioned go spend a day at the NICU and see all those poor babies.

 

[This_person]

No Jackass, perhaps the person did not want her baby on the internet or on the news.


David Benjamin, sisters baby. Born at 20 weeks on May 6th at 1.2 lbs and 9 in, now 4.4 lbs and 14 in - nikko*ttc's Photos - MedHelp If the link doesn't work for you, Google the name.

Here's another, but no one will believe it either because it's not on a "Planned Parenthood" friendly site

 

[This_person]

Exactly...and for the same reasons as only a doctor can prescribe certain meds.
There is a reason these things are limited to the action of someone who earns that degree.

So, you are fully acknowleging, then, that the doctor is intentionally killing a human on the orders of at least the mother without then consent of the person being killed or any reasonable knowledge of a medical issue affecting anyone, and that's a-okay in your book?

Why stop at a baby in the womb? Why not allow this for a nine year old who's just as inconvenient?

 

[This_person]

WTF does that matter if she lived?

stipulations on one side are okay, on the other side, not okay.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

WTF does that matter if she lived?

I was just curious :shrug:

She died 2 times and went through hell, so did her family. She spent a long time in the hospital.

Like it was mentioned go spend a day at the NICU and see all those poor babies.

Glad she lived.

Here's another, but no one will believe it either because it's not on a "Planned Parenthood" friendly site

didn't look yet, but it's a blog...
facts can often be skewed when in blogs, but I'll look at it either way :shrug:

So, you are fully acknowleging, then, that the doctor is intentionally killing a human on the orders of at least the mother without then consent of the person being killed or any reasonable knowledge of a medical issue affecting anyone, and that's a-okay in your book?

Why stop at a baby in the womb? Why not allow this for a nine year old who's just as inconvenient?

Can said 9 year old live (with or without machinery) on it's own?
If not, have at it.

 

[SingerLady]

Sorry, a little late on this but. 5 MONTHS ARE YOU FRICKIN KIDDING ME? That is straight up murder pcj. The baby is moving, kicking, blinking, taking in nourishment from you, can hear you. 8 - 10 weeks would honestly be my limit and I don't think I'd even go 10 weeks, but then again I wouln't have an abortion, unless there was a legitimate cause for one. I found this:

Jill Stanek - World's youngest surviving baby born in Miami

The medical standard is not even to resuscitate a 22-week baby, so when Sonja Taylor knew she was going into labor in October after just 19 weeks, she lied about the baby's term.

Doctors worked to delay the birth, but nine days later, they had no choice but to perform an emergency C-section, thinking they were delivering a 23-week baby.

So in all reality this baby was 19 weeks and a few days when she was born, and still living today!

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

Sorry, a little late on this but. 5 MONTHS ARE YOU FRICKIN KIDDING ME? That is straight up murder pcj. The baby is moving, kicking, blinking, taking in nourishment from you, can hear you. 8 - 10 weeks would honestly be my limit and I don't think I'd even go 10 weeks, but then again I wouln't have an abortion, unless there was a legitimate cause for one. I found this:

Jill Stanek - World's youngest surviving baby born in Miami

Lets take a 30 year old adult.
Who knows what happened, but they're on life support and not what we'd call conscious, but they aren't in a coma
It is determined that they cannot live without it, and the family chooses to take them off of support, rather than suffer.
Are they murderers?

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

The medical standard is not even to resuscitate a 22-week baby, so when Sonja Taylor knew she was going into labor in October after just 19 weeks, she lied about the baby's term.

Doctors worked to delay the birth, but nine days later, they had no choice but to perform an emergency C-section, thinking they were delivering a 23-week baby.

So in all reality this baby was 19 weeks and a few days when she was born, and still living today!

I read that, but it goes on to say that baby was 21 weeks + days when born.
Which is why I'm skeptical of these other "20 week old" babies, because who's determining this number? The doctors say 21+, but it states she was in labor at 19.
Fishy, eh?