Push for 'shall-issue' concealed carry in MD
- Thread starter 2ndAmendment
- Start date
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Spoiled...
...I wonder how much thought you've really given this?
The concept of expansion of individual rights seems to be causing you to be concerned about mis-use, about crime.
I think it was you who recently were interested in the drinking age, making the analogy that you can fight and die for your nation at 18 but can't drink a beer until 21.
Well, drinking at 18 is about what? Responsibility. When is an individual responsible enough to be able to drink, an activity that, by definition, alters your mental state with a poison?
When are they responsible enough to operate the device that is the #1 killer of people under 21, an automobile?
Voting?
All of these have numbers.
So, I ask you, when is an individual old enough to choose to defend themselves? Or own a handgun for sport? Or carry one into a bad part of town?
How old?
...I wonder how much thought you've really given this?
The concept of expansion of individual rights seems to be causing you to be concerned about mis-use, about crime.
I think it was you who recently were interested in the drinking age, making the analogy that you can fight and die for your nation at 18 but can't drink a beer until 21.
Well, drinking at 18 is about what? Responsibility. When is an individual responsible enough to be able to drink, an activity that, by definition, alters your mental state with a poison?
When are they responsible enough to operate the device that is the #1 killer of people under 21, an automobile?
Voting?
All of these have numbers.
So, I ask you, when is an individual old enough to choose to defend themselves? Or own a handgun for sport? Or carry one into a bad part of town?
How old?
Spoiled
Active Member
Larry Gude said:
Guns have 1 ultimate purpose: to kill...
Automobiles have more than 1 purpose, I think it is too easy to obtain a liscense. Its not necessarily an age thing, just a maturity thing. Maturity and age often go hand-in-hand but not always. There is no way of measuring maturity. Me driving a red sports car, on 235 i pull up to a light, some guy in one of those cars with the exhausts that makes it sound like a lawnmower and a whale-fin on the back revs his engine at me... Light goes green i accelerate normally he goes speeding off down the road as you feel bad for his poor transmission. Hes destroying his car and endangering others... But I am not, I am using my car for a reason, to travel.
People do have a right to defend themselves, but use of lethal force in a situation that is trivial? I am a calm person, but i know many hot-headed people. I can see them getting in to a fight and pulling out their second ammendment device to 'defend' themselves. I am not just talking about my peers either. I can also see a woman in a bad part of town and a homeless person walks up behind her, taps her on the shoulder to ask for some spare change. The woman already being scared has her hand on her pistol, jumps around and aims. If shes not too scared she wont fire, if the homeless fella is scared and also has a weapon he could pull it out and shoot her as a response (wild west style, right?) and say he was defending himself. Add some alcohol to the situation and wow, just wow...
itsbob
I bowl overhand
Spoiled said:
Well, yanno, I've carried concealed for ten years (until I moved to MD)without incident.. but would rather carry it every day and not need it, then need it just ONE time and not have it..
and just think when the rogue criminal comes into McDonalds with guns blazing, you can hide under your tabe and PRAY that there is someone there like me, before he/she finds you.
And BTW I don't piss around with some womens (no offense to the ladies) gun, I carry the old faithful .45. If you HAVE to shoot someone, make sure you are carrying something that is going to stop them, and put them on their azz..
And the only reason I say womans gun... that's why the Army adopted the 9mm .. they use to have two handguns, the .45 and the .38, they wanted to have just one in the inventory, so they had to compromise and choose a weapon a smaller woman could handle.. Even thought I've met a lot of women that can handle my .45.. some couldn't pull back the receiver to load it.
itsbob
I bowl overhand
And lets not forget, the places in this great country that have the strictest gun laws.. Philadelphia, DC, Baltimore.. NYC.. have the worst violent crime statistics of ANY otehr city..
Yet the places with the lest strictest laws, where ANYBODY without a record can get a permit, haver the BEST stats..
HMMMMM is their a correlation.. or are the liberals REALLY that un-intelligent..
You don't want to carry, fine, don't.. but don't infringe on my rights.
I was AMAZED when I moved here and found out if I had to go to a BAD part of town.. (anything North of Calvert County) I couldn't even wear a Vest to protect myself.. and I don't know about you, but I Have NEVER heard of anyone getting killed by a ballistic vest.....
Yet the places with the lest strictest laws, where ANYBODY without a record can get a permit, haver the BEST stats..
HMMMMM is their a correlation.. or are the liberals REALLY that un-intelligent..
You don't want to carry, fine, don't.. but don't infringe on my rights.
I was AMAZED when I moved here and found out if I had to go to a BAD part of town.. (anything North of Calvert County) I couldn't even wear a Vest to protect myself.. and I don't know about you, but I Have NEVER heard of anyone getting killed by a ballistic vest.....
itsbob
I bowl overhand
Spoiled said:My point is its...
That site gives a lot of 'facts' with no citations (unless i missed them)... I am sure i can find an anti-gun site that will give ocunter 'facts' for ever 'fact' on that site. We all know this though. Its one of the 'cliche' things to argue about. There are more factors than just "more guns = less crime". Hand guns are easy enough to get as it is. Why make it easier?
I had a friend who was 16, carried a hand gun with him... Took it to school sometimes (great mills). Took it to work, parties where underaged drinking occured (mind you he went to sleep woke up and it was gone). Was he looking to commit violent crimes? Nope... Was it for protection? Doubtful, he just liked to say he had it...
Proof, that criminals can get and carry guns if they want, while the law abiding citizens sit calmly by waiting to become victims.
Spoiled
Active Member
Cities are stressful places, lots of people, lots of potential for confrontation and crime in general... Where as the country farm-land wilderness there is less chance of confrontation and stress....itsbob said:
Remember those robbers, in... was it California... Had body armor on and the police couldnt do anything, so they had to go get bigger guns? YOu need to draw the line somewhere.itsbob said:
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Good start...
So, your argument, as I read it, is people are not responsible enough to use that power to protect themselves, under any circumstances, yes?
So, when faced with a criminal and his weapon, to bad? You are more concerned with what the law abiding might do than what the law breaking actually do?
It's a known how many homocides are commited per year with illegally obtained handguns, not to mention woundings and robberies that don't result in an actual shooting.
To bad?
So, your argument, as I read it, is people are not responsible enough to use that power to protect themselves, under any circumstances, yes?
So, when faced with a criminal and his weapon, to bad? You are more concerned with what the law abiding might do than what the law breaking actually do?
It's a known how many homocides are commited per year with illegally obtained handguns, not to mention woundings and robberies that don't result in an actual shooting.
To bad?
Spoiled
Active Member
I am saying people over-react... I am concerned with what anyone does with a gun. Be it a criminal, police officer, or an everyday person... Even more so when it is pointed at annother person.Larry Gude said:
Hell do you want these people with guns which are easily hidden walking around OUR streets?
itsbob
I bowl overhand
Don't draw the line where I can protect myself without causing harm.. THEY were criminals I am not.Spoiled said:
AND throughout that shoot out, did ONE of those ballistic vests kill anyone?? No, the issue was the police being underarmed, in a liberal state that couldn't figure a way to safely arm those that are paid to protect them, let alone train them to shoot well enough to do anything with what they had.. There was still a melon sized target that not one of them could seem to hit..
There are BIG cities out there with less restrictive gun laws with a LOT fewer violent crimes. I don't remember seeing any farms in downtown Pittsburgh.. but I do remember feeling the butt of my .45 firmly sitting in it's holster. And I never had to remove it from said holster either.. even though I travelled all times day and night, getting lost at times in some of the worst neighborhoods Pitt had to offer.
Well your “friend” packing at 16 was a committing a crime and you should have reported him. Did you or did you abet his act by doing nothing? You obviously don’t know the laws or much about handguns. And this isn’t about making guns easier to get, this is about law-abiding citizens being able to carry legally obtained weapons (concealed or not) for self-protection. Do you not know the difference?Spoiled said:
I would say that you are once again wrong. It is the law that keeps you in line and not the police. You know it is against the law not to do those things you mention and I am willing to bet that you have never had a police officer come up to you and say, “Spoiled, you better not rob a bank or I’ll get you”.
You are right when you say “crime will happen regardless” and that is why we, the law-abiding citizens, want to have the ability to protect ourselves because we don’t have a police officer with us 24/7 dedicated to our individual safety. If you check statistics I bet that there is only one officer for every 500 or more persons here in this area and less officers elsewhere in the more populated areas. If it is allowed for the citizen to be armed some of the criminals out there might just get into a new line of work because of the new risks they would be facing, which means that allowing for concealed-carry will prevent crimes.
And why wouldn't or shouldn't they be allowed to carry a weapon. Hell, I bet many of them depending on where they live have the ability to do so and probably do because unlike you they know that the police won't be there when they need them.Spoiled said:
It's you that is over-reacting. It is you that wants to infringe on our ability to protect ourselves. And it is you that think that because anyone owns a gun they will do wrong with it. See a pattern here? I do. Now run off to class and try to get a clue.
Oh yeah, when I send karma I sign it. I know this – "Make the guns harder to obtain/steal then fewer criminals will have access to them" is from you as the only "RED" sender in this discussion, so at least have the balls to identify yourself when making comments. And if you believe what you sent me then you are more naive then I had previously imagined. Criminals can’t legally obtain weapons so they already have a harder time obtaining them, but still seem to do it.
Penn
Dancing Up A Storm
"These people"
Do they live in France, or have they emigrated to Canada?
_________________________________________________________________
The good people here at DU show some promise but unless some begin to seriously consider revolution, an American tradition, to change the state of events then nothing will happen.
The government with the help of the media will turn this country into the fourth Reich no doubt about it.
But remember the revolution will not be televised.
Remember if the elections were fixed, more than 60 million people were cheated. People don't like to be taken for fools.
Use it to your advantage when planning the revolution
Do they live in France, or have they emigrated to Canada?
_________________________________________________________________
The good people here at DU show some promise but unless some begin to seriously consider revolution, an American tradition, to change the state of events then nothing will happen.
The government with the help of the media will turn this country into the fourth Reich no doubt about it.
But remember the revolution will not be televised.
Remember if the elections were fixed, more than 60 million people were cheated. People don't like to be taken for fools.
Use it to your advantage when planning the revolution
Spoiled
Active Member
I have only sent green out in this discussion, i do have 2 red comments both of which call me a "retarded dick" and no signer.... I have gotten 2 more red comment with signers from this discussion... Most of my green is signed, and the vast majority of my red is not. Oh well, welcome to what i get on these boards all the time... Loosen up man 
Maybe it was green you sent, but as you are scoring in the RED your's goes out as gray. And I am fairly loose as I am not the one that sees everyone that legally owns a weapon as a threat to my safety, it's those that illegally obtain them that I want to be able to protect myself from.Spoiled said:I have only sent green out in this discussion, i do have 2 red comments both of which call me a "retarded dick" and no signer.... I have gotten 2 more red comment with signers from this discussion... Most of my green is signed, and the vast majority of my red is not. Oh well, welcome to what i get on these boards all the time... Loosen up man