Religious vs. Atheist "converters"

[mAlice]

Is that objective though?

If it comes from yourself, can't you change your self-appointed purpose?

Yes, it is objective, and yes, one can change a self appointed purpose. Ya' know, like fathers who walk away from their families (just an example). However, that objective purpose comes from within. Instinct. That said, even instinct can be modified.

 

[sk8enscars]

Is that your only purpose in life?

Well, I want to be happy. I want a family. I want a better world for my future children to live in.

But life is short. Those things are not my ultimate goals. My ultimate goal is what happens when I die. I'd rather live as a Christian and die to "find" there is no afterlife than to be a non-believer and die and find out there is! (I'd actually rather live as a Christian and die to find that I've made it to heaven...) Not wanting to be wrong is not my only motivation but it is something I can't help but think about from time to time.

 

[mAlice]

Well, I want to be happy. I want a family. I want a better world for my future children to live in.

But life is short. Those things are not my ultimate goals. My ultimate goal is what happens when I die. I'd rather live as a Christian and die to "find" there is no afterlife than to be a non-believer and die and find out there is! (I'd actually rather live as a Christian and die to find that I've made it to heaven...) Not wanting to be wrong is not my only motivation but it is something I can't help but think about from time to time.

That's your choice. It doesn't make your right or wrong, but it is an intellectual choice you made based on knowledge you have absorbed. If no one had ever told you that there was a god, or an afterlife, what choice might you have made?

 

[Pete]

I miss Zutard

 

[mAlice]

I miss Zutard

Funny.

 

[This_person]

That's your choice. It doesn't make your right or wrong, but it is an intellectual choice you made based on knowledge you have absorbed. If no one had ever told you that there was a god, or an afterlife, what choice might you have made?

Me, probably a more self-centered one.....

 

[sk8enscars]

That's your choice. It doesn't make your right or wrong, but it is an intellectual choice you made based on knowledge you have absorbed. If no one had ever told you that there was a god, or an afterlife, what choice might you have made?

There wouldn't be a choice to make. They only way I could avoid being exposed to it is to live in the wild as a savage or something. Or under a rock. And then in that case I would think I'd be held unaccountable, much like a child. In any case, my purpose in life would be to simply survive. Be sheltered, eat food, and occupy myself. Which does not really sound like a "purpose". I exist so that I can continue to exist until I no longer exist? That's as depressing as the parents who work just to pay the sitters.

 

[mAlice]

There wouldn't be a choice to make. They only way I could avoid being exposed to it is to live in the wild as a savage or something. Or under a rock. And then in that case I would think I'd be held unaccountable, much like a child. In any case, my purpose in life would be to simply survive. Be sheltered, eat food, and occupy myself. Which does not really sound like a "purpose". I exist so that I can continue to exist until I no longer exist? That's as depressing as the parents who work just to pay the sitters.

There are plenty of people in the world who live/have lived, just like that. It was probably their purpose to take care of those close to them. Life is purpose, in and of itself. If you find that depressing, that's all on you. I'm sure that those who have never heard of god do not find it particularly depressing, and lived happy fulfilled lives. I'm not depressed because I don't believe in a god. I'm actually quite happy and lead a full, satisfying life.

 

[mAlice]

Me, probably a more self-centered one.....

That doesn't speak well of your character.

 

[This_person]

That doesn't speak well of your character.

Why? What guidance would I have to be different, if I had no guidance to be different?

Why were American Indians such war-like people? I suspect it was because they probably got into groups/gangs/tribes, and tried to work for their own best interest at the costs of others. I think that's where we'd be without religious teachings.

 

[mAlice]

Why? What guidance would I have to be different, if I had no guidance to be different?

Why were American Indians such war-like people? I suspect it was because they probably got into groups/gangs/tribes, and tried to work for their own best interest at the costs of others. I think that's where we'd be without religious teachings.

OMG. I'm through discussing this with you. I won't even go into wars that have been started in the name of god.

 

[Zguy28]

Yes, it is objective, and yes, one can change a self appointed purpose. Ya' know, like fathers who walk away from their families (just an example). However, that objective purpose comes from within. Instinct. That said, even instinct can be modified.

Well, then it doesn't sound objective. It sounds like it subjective.

 

[mAlice]

Well, then it doesn't sound objective. It sounds like it subjective.

No. I think what you're describing sounds more subjective than what I'm describing. Funny.

 

[pixiegirl]

Why? What guidance would I have to be different, if I had no guidance to be different?

Why were American Indians such war-like people? I suspect it was because they probably got into groups/gangs/tribes, and tried to work for their own best interest at the costs of others. I think that's where we'd be without religious teachings.

American Indians had no religion? That's news to me.

 

[Zguy28]

No. I think what you're describing sounds more subjective than what I'm describing. Funny.

I believe that our purpose, as I have described, comes from without. It is not created by humankind. It cannot be changed by humans. Hence its objective.

If it is from within, and can be changed by us, then it is subject to us and relative.

Am I doing a poor job of communicating what I'm trying to say?

The same is the case for morality. Is there objective morality i.e. are there some things that are always right or wrong, no matter the circumstances or cultural acceptance?

 

[This_person]

OMG. I'm through discussing this with you. I won't even go into wars that have been started in the name of god.

Oh, I fully agree that a lot of horrible wars have been started for bad reasons with religion used as the stated reason. But that's one religion against another, generally speaking.

How many good and selfless things have been done in the name of religion? I don't think the list would do anything but incredibly dwarf the list of wars and other atrocities.

We're talking about what people would do with differing guidance. Societies that had no religion at all are virtually nonexistent. Societies whose religion has no afterlife, no guiding principle for a soul are generally deemed "evil" by any objective standard.

 

[This_person]

American Indians had no religion? That's news to me.

I wasn't suggesting they had NO religion, but that their religions generally didn't have a concept of a heaven or afterlife, with consequences for bad behavior.

 

[mAlice]

I wasn't suggesting they had NO religion, but that their religions generally didn't have a concept of a heaven or afterlife, with consequences for bad behavior.

...translation: Their religion was not the correct religion.

 

[This_person]

...translation: Their religion was not the correct religion.

Wrong translation.

If they thought their religion was right for them, then it was right for them.

The difference was what the religion provided to the overall society.

 

[MissKitty]

Wrong translation.

If they thought their religion was right for them, then it was right for them.

The difference was what the religion provided to the overall society.

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