Traffic Rant Road constrction By Harris Teeter/235 & Rt 4

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Me, I couldnt even take commuting from Wildewood. It's two-3 minutes to the end of Park Hall Road, a 30 second to 1.5 minute wait there to get north, then two minutes on 235. Followed by 2-5 minutes into Gate 3.
My commute takes from one to three minutes, depending on whether I stop to feed the cats or not.
 

awpitt

Main Streeter
That was quite the "commute" for some of my co-workers. We had a very beat up Volvo station wagon on the St. Mary's side that everyone who lived in Calvert used to get back and forth between our office and the ferry landing. I sold the company the Volvo for $250 ...they never bothered to change tags or anything else...gave it back to me when the bridge re-opened. LOL.
Certainly interesting. I remember they closed the bridge at lunchtime with no warning.
 
That whole construction project has been an epic cluster#### since day one, and only gets worse. There is no reason to funnel the traffic into two very narrow passages on the periphery of the road, when the "construction" area is so narrow. I won't even mention that in the 4 weeks this traffic pattern has existed I have only seen workers on site ONE DAY when they cut the asphalt and removed it....oops I just did mention it...
 

terbear1225

Well-Known Member
hopefully, when they finally get around to fixing this fluster cluck, they'll do something about the flooding too.
 

calvcopf

Active Member
Traffic was stopped both ways. Ambulance with lights & siren on couldn't get through and nowhere for traffic to divert to, so the ambulance driver just drove through the construction site! No workers were present so no harm and he didn't have much choice.
 

Airgasm

Well-Known Member
What are the chances, the road configuration, lanes (less the new 4-way light and median) will return to the original?
 

CrashTest

New Member
hopefully, when they finally get around to fixing this fluster cluck, they'll do something about the flooding too.
They did. Someone moved the construction barrels about 10 feet to to left when that section of road was 3 feet under water a few days ago. They're on top of things.
 

Dukesdad

Well-Known Member
I sent an email to our county commissioners and got this back.
Hello Mr. XXXXX, the County portion of the project, which is FDR Blvd, is almost completed. A left turn lane from northbound FDR Blvd at MD 4 still needs to be constructed however. The MD Route 4 portion of the roadway is maintained by the Maryland State Highway Administration (SHA), and the developer has a permit through the SHA. The remaining work appears to consist of constructing the median and overlaying the roadway. I am copying Corren Johnson, District Engineer so she can respond to all of us on the status of the work, with a time table for completion. We had forwarded concerns to her about this project just last week.

I hope this addresses your concerns from a County perspective. Please let us know if you have any additional questions.

John J. Groeger, P.E.
Deputy Director
St. Mary's County DPW&T

I ran in to Todd Morgan, the Commissioner for that area and when asked him what the Commissioners were doing about it, all he would say is "it's a state road issue" over and over again. I said it's a county issue since countians drive it every day... "It's a state road issue".. Must be nice to be running for election un-challenged.
 
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awpitt

Main Streeter
I sent an email to our county commissioners and got this back.
Hello Mr. XXXXX, the County portion of the project, which is FDR Blvd, is almost completed. A left turn lane from northbound FDR Blvd at MD 4 still needs to be constructed however. The MD Route 4 portion of the roadway is maintained by the Maryland State Highway Administration (SHA), and the developer has a permit through the SHA. The remaining work appears to consist of constructing the median and overlaying the roadway. I am copying Corren Johnson, District Engineer so she can respond to all of us on the status of the work, with a time table for completion. We had forwarded concerns to her about this project just last week.

I hope this addresses your concerns from a County perspective. Please let us know if you have any additional questions.

John J. Groeger, P.E.
Deputy Director
St. Mary's County DPW&T

I ran in to Todd Morgan, the Commissioner for that area and when asked him what the Commissioners were doing about it, all he would say is "it's a state road issue" over and over again. I said it's a county issue since countians drive it every day... "It's a state road issue".. Must be nice to be running for election un-challenged.
In this case, Todd Morgan is correct. County govt has no control over state roads. If you want to express concerns about state roads, you need to contact Deb Rey and Steve Waugh.
 

Potomac

New Member
Todd Morgan is correct, it's a state road & questions are properly directed to SHA. Of course the County Co can, and have, apply pressure to the delegation for some quicker action on this.
 

CrashTest

New Member
In this case, Todd Morgan is correct. County govt has no control over state roads. If you want to express concerns about state roads, you need to contact Deb Rey and Steve Waugh.
Except it was the county who allowed the building of a new shopping center which is what screwed it up in the first place.
 

BernieP

Resident PIA
Yep. Based on traffic studies provided by the STATE Highway Administration.
convenient for us working folks who pay taxes that they can finger point at each other.

Driving down 235 today it hit me that both the SHA and County are responsible for the mess
SHA designed and built the road to a model that was probably outdated before the road modernization was complete.
Certainly before the county decided to drop all the development on lots along 235.

Traffic this morning was as heavy as it is during the work week except people weren't commuting to PAX.
When you combine the base traffic and the regular traffic, the road design is a FAIL.
So who takes the blame? SHA who went with the best data known at the time they started the project (projections of PAX traffic after the NAVAIR HQ move) or the county for making it nothing more than a 5 miles of entrances and exits.
 

somdforever

New Member
So how many more months and accidents are going to happen before they fix the road? Are then putting a media strip are they putting in sewer I see signs of both. What is going on with blocking off lanes on 235 for this?

ANYBODY GOT A CLUE? :eyebrow:
I don't, and it appears neither does SHA. I e-mailed SHA over 3 weeks ago and filed a complaint that the road has been torn up since Christmas and no work was being done to bring it back to standards. I've yet to receive any word from them. If they were going to replace any drainage/sewage, they should have done it before now. I don't understand why they can't do the work at night. But then again, many of us remember how long it took for Rte. 235 to be widened a few years ago!
 

BernieP

Resident PIA
I don't, and it appears neither does SHA. I e-mailed SHA over 3 weeks ago and filed a complaint that the road has been torn up since Christmas and no work was being done to bring it back to standards. I've yet to receive any word from them. If they were going to replace any drainage/sewage, they should have done it before now. I don't understand why they can't do the work at night. But then again, many of us remember how long it took for Rte. 235 to be widened a few years ago!
almost 20 years ago

It doesn't surprise me in the least that both the county and the SHA are clueless.
It was all probably handled by lawyers
 

CrashTest

New Member
Yep. Based on traffic studies provided by the STATE Highway Administration.
It took 3 years to build the San Francisco Bay Bridge. That bridge is 2 miles longs. Three years is also how long it took Maryland to fix that little bridge on Budd's Creek Rd a few years ago when it got washed out. That bridge is about 100 feet long.

So the county makes decisions based on studies done by Md? The county leadership is not too bright are they?
 

BernieP

Resident PIA
So the county makes decisions based on studies done by Md? The county leadership is not too bright are they?
In the county's defense, I don't believe they have a whole lot of latitude.

I know someone took the comment by another poster about the road looking like Beirut.
Well I had the misfortune of turning right at the light by CVS on GMR the other day because my buddy said it was a shortcut to Pegg Rd.
I don't know who owns the roads back there (State, County or Private), but they look like they are out of a war zone.
Is that neighborhood so bad that the roads are left in such poor shape?

BTW, for just blame on the dunces in Leonardtown, I give you FDR BLVD. How many years?
 

CrashTest

New Member
In the county's defense, I don't believe they have a whole lot of latitude.

I know someone took the comment by another poster about the road looking like Beirut.
Well I had the misfortune of turning right at the light by CVS on GMR the other day because my buddy said it was a shortcut to Pegg Rd.
I don't know who owns the roads back there (State, County or Private), but they look like they are out of a war zone.
Is that neighborhood so bad that the roads are left in such poor shape?

BTW, for just blame on the dunces in Leonardtown, I give you FDR BLVD. How many years?

About 35 years, but in their email response in the other post, the county seems proud of their accomplishments with regard to FDR.
 

Goldenhawk

Active Member
BTW, for just blame on the dunces in Leonardtown, I give you FDR BLVD. How many years?
Let's be fair, please. The people trying to get FDR Blvd completed have been stymied mostly by NIMBYs, not their own incompetence. If you study the actual history of the project, land acquisition has been the primary holdup. Much as it might speed some projects along from time to time, I'm quite happy that the county cannot simply appropriate all the land they want without due process ("eminent domain"). So yes, it's frustrating, but I think FDR has proceeded reasonably well all things considered.

Now if they'd just turn their attention to pushing Pegg Road all the way through to Rt 249, and get rid of the bottleneck at Great Mills...
 

Hannibal

Member
This all goes back to all the upfront BS that is now required of these kind of projects that wasn't before. Even the most simplistic jobs require environmental impact studies which require review and comment. Then work needs to get blessed before even being largely designed, let alone bid. You have a bunch of people who know little to nothing about the work - or need for it - weighing in on whether or not it should happen. God forbid someone challenges the build. Then go to permitting where EVERY jurisdiction has a their own set of permits with new ones being required all the time. Add NPDES requirements, Clean Water Act requirements. Review by ACOE and MDE/EPA, etc., etc. .............. all for something as simple as replacing a bridge where it previously stood.

There is SOOOOO much money spent above common sense approaches (with some simple checks and balances) that not only substantially inflates costs but also inflates schedules. For the most part, building the actual work is the easy part.

The GGB was built in 2-3 years because it could be. They likely didn't have moratoriums on the work during "fish f&cking season" or restrictions tidal marsh access. They probably didn't have requirements about anchoring barges into the water over a set period of time or where they could placed into the water.

Even simple jobs are boggled down with red tape, political leverage and the "feelings" of those whose input shouldn't matter.
 
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