Sean Taylor murders confess

[Novus Collectus]

Are you now trying to say you know more about MD law than our Attorney General???

First of all I never saw this mythical quote and so I never know if it was said the way people are remembering, second the new video does not say it anymore if it did before or not, and third I am saying that the MD Court of Appeals judges know more about MD law than the former AG.....see my last post.

 

[Dymphna]

Actually I think Florida is one of those states, but they have to prove intent to kill before he pulled the trigger:
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA TAMPA DIVISION UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. Case No. 8:03-CR-77-T-30TBM

It looks as if without premeditation the murder is second degree with life max.
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : flsenate.gov

I haven't finished reading, so forgive me if someone already pointed out "felony murder." If someone dies during the commission of a felony, those committing the felony can be charged with murder...no premeditation required, and all of the ones committing the felony can be charged, not just the one pulling the trigger.

A confession may save them from the death penalty...although in some states felony murder doesn't usually rate the death penalty...but given the publicity and outrage caused by this crime, those boys were probably babbling away trying to save their asses.

 

[Dymphna]

Here's a little more on felony murder and specifically a Florida case: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0091-4169(198224)73:4<1553:EATDPA>2.0.CO;2-N

Triggerman is the only one who can get the death penalty, the rest get life max.

 

[Novus Collectus]

I haven't finished reading, so forgive me if someone already pointed out "felony murder." If someone dies during the commission of a felony, those committing the felony can be charged with murder...no premeditation required, and all of the ones committing the felony can be charged, not just the one pulling the trigger.

As I understand it, for it to be a capitol offense in Fla it has to be premeditated AND one of the following:
782.04 Murder.--

(1)(a) The unlawful killing of a human being:

1. When perpetrated from a premeditated design to effect the death of the person killed or any human being;

2. When committed by a person engaged in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:

a. Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1),

b. Arson,

c. Sexual battery,

d. Robbery,

e. Burglary,

f. Kidnapping,

g. Escape,

h. Aggravated child abuse,

i. Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,

j. Aircraft piracy,

k. Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb,

l. Carjacking,

m. Home-invasion robbery,

n. Aggravated stalking,

o. Murder of another human being,

p. Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person,

q. Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism; or ....


......is murder in the first degree and constitutes a capital felony, punishable as provided in s. 775.082.



Every other murder I think is second degree or lesser which is not a death penalty crime.

A confession may save them from the death penalty...although in some states felony murder doesn't usually rate the death penalty...but given the publicity and outrage caused by this crime, those boys were probably babbling away trying to save their asses.

I agree, they probably spoke to a lawyer first which told them that they should say they did not think about killing Taylor right before the crime. Their busting down the bedroom door says to me they at least had the intent to kill at that point even if they may not have when they broke into the house.

 

[Dymphna]

As I understand it, for it to be a capitol offense in Fla it has to be premeditated AND one of the following:
782.04 Murder.--

(1)(a) The unlawful killing of a human being:

1. When perpetrated from a premeditated design to effect the death of the person killed or any human being;

2. When committed by a person engaged in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:

a. Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1),

b. Arson,

c. Sexual battery,

d. Robbery,

e. Burglary,

f. Kidnapping,

g. Escape,

h. Aggravated child abuse,

i. Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,

j. Aircraft piracy,

k. Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb,

l. Carjacking,

m. Home-invasion robbery,

n. Aggravated stalking,

o. Murder of another human being,

p. Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person,

q. Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism; or ....


......is murder in the first degree and constitutes a capital felony, punishable as provided in s. 775.082.



Every other murder I think is second degree or lesser which is not a death penalty crime.

I agree, they probably spoke to a lawyer first which told them that they should say they did not think about killing Taylor right before the crime. Their busting down the bedroom door says to me they at least had the intent to kill at that point even if they may not have when they broke into the house.

It's not AND it's OR...AND doesn't even make sense...it's only murder if you were doing one of these other things? ... no, felony murder, by definition doesn't require premeditation. that number 2) is a list of specific felonies that can be used to argue felony murder... not all felonies rate...embezzlement, for example is a felony. You could argue that an embezzlement caused a death, ie. heart attack, or something, but it's not gonna rate for felony murder...Burglary IS on that list.

 

[Novus Collectus]

It's not AND it's OR...

The absence of OR suggests AND after a semi colon.

AND doesn't even make sense...it's only murder if you were doing one of these other things? ... no, felony murder, by definition doesn't require premeditation. that number 2) is a list of specific felonies that can be used to argue felony murder... not all felonies rate...embezzlement, for example is a felony. You could argue that an embezzlement caused a death, ie. heart attack, or something, but it's not gonna rate for felony murder...Burglary IS on that list.

Ok, so read the rest of the link then. ALL the other murders without premeditation involved say the max is life or less.

(3) When a person is killed in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:

(a) Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1),

(b) Arson,

(c) Sexual battery,

(d) Robbery,

(e) Burglary,

(f) Kidnapping,

(g) Escape,

(h) Aggravated child abuse,

(i) Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,

(j) Aircraft piracy,

(k) Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb,

(l) Carjacking,

(m) Home-invasion robbery,

(n) Aggravated stalking,

(o) Murder of another human being,

(p) Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person, or

(q) Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism,

by a person other than the person engaged in the perpetration of or in the attempt to perpetrate such felony, the person perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate such felony is guilty of murder in the second degree, which constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

If your interpretation of the semi colon meaning OR instead of AND, then the above would not apply.

The death penalty only applies when the murder is premeditated AND it while being committed during those crimes in subsection (1) as I read it.

 

[Dymphna]

4 Charged in Slaying of Redskins' Taylor

In Fort Myers, a woman who identified herself as Wardlow's grandmother but declined to give her name defended the accused. "He's a sweet young man,"

This is interesting...

The Miami Herald reported Mitchell cut the player's lawn and did other chores at the house and that Taylor's sister Sasha dates Wardlow's cousin. The Naples Daily News quoted a woman who identified herself as Jason Mitchell's mother as saying her son was at a birthday party at Taylor's home within the past two months.

 

[cattitude]

4 Charged in Slaying of Redskins' Taylor



This is interesting...

You should do some further reading. According to reports, the step sister, Sasha, and Sean's mother often stayed at Sean's home when he wasn't there and had friends in, parties, etc. The latest gathering being at Thanksgiving when Sean, his g/f and child were in the DC area.

 

[Dymphna]

The absence of OR suggests AND after a semi colon.


Ok, so read the rest of the link then. ALL the other murders without premeditation involved say the max is life or less.

If your interpretation of the semi colon meaning OR instead of AND, then the above would not apply.

The death penalty only applies when the murder is premeditated AND it while being committed during those crimes in subsection (1) as I read it.

Part 3 doesn't apply in this case...

Read this part at the end of part 3:

...by a person other than the person engaged in the perpetration of or in the attempt to perpetrate such felony, the person perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate such felony is guilty of murder in the second degree,...

For example, say YOU break into my home. I take a gun and shoot (presumably at you ) but actually hit my husband, killing him... YOU are guilty of 2nd degree murder because YOU were committing the felony, not me.

I'm not a lawyer, I'm not going to argue if semicolons mean "and" or "or" but I do know that if I decide to kill you, then I go to your house and do so, that is murder first degree. I don't have to commit any other crime in order to have committed 1st degree murder. That logic in itself is enough to say that the conjunction between article 1 and article 2 is an "or" not an "and"

I also know that when my uncle was killed during a burglary, the criminals were charged with felony murder, even though Uncle was killed with his own gun and everyone involved believed the perpetrators just wanted to rob a sick old man and didn't expect him to put up enough of a fight to warrant killing him.

Now, in searching around to make my arguments here tonight, I have discovered that there is a movement in Florida right now to change the felony murder rule from a capital crime to a max of life imprisonment...the main argument being that premeditation isn't a factor.

 

[Dymphna]

You should do some further reading. According to reports, the step sister, Sasha, and Sean's mother often stayed at Sean's home when he wasn't there and had friends in, parties, etc. The latest gathering being at Thanksgiving when Sean, his g/f and child were in the DC area.

I actually haven't been reading much of the details because I'm not a football fan...but sounds like from what you say, sister is a party girl who invited all sorts of low-lifes over, giving them the opportunity to case the joint.

 

[Novus Collectus]

Part 3 doesn't apply in this case...

Read this part at the end of part 3:

Hmm, maybe, but explain Part (2) then if how you read Part (1) is correct?

(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

If your understanding of the semi colon is OR instead of AND, then (2) would be conficting.

I also know that when my uncle was killed during a burglary, the criminals were charged with felony murder, even though Uncle was killed with his own gun and everyone involved believed the perpetrators just wanted to rob a sick old man and didn't expect him to put up enough of a fight to warrant killing him.

In Florida?

Now, in searching around to make my arguments here tonight, I have discovered that there is a movement in Florida right now to change the felony murder rule from a capital crime to a max of life imprisonment...the main argument being that premeditation isn't a factor.

ALL murder is felony. I think you are confusing degrees of murder with something else.

 

[forestal]

<img src="http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/US/12/01/sean.taylor/art.sean.taylor.suspects.ap.jpg"/>

 

[RadioPatrol]

The whole thing sucks. Even if Sean had a gun, he would have had to have it in his hand, IMO, to have had any of a chance. To be woken up out of bed during a burglary attempt is a pretty vulnerable position to be in.

12 Ga Shotgun by the Bed, I can get on my way out the door

 

[Larry Gude]

I hope...

First of all I never saw this mythical quote and so I never know if it was said the way people are remembering, second the new video does not say it anymore if it did before or not, and third I am saying that the MD Court of Appeals judges know more about MD law than the former AG.....see my last post.

...you are correct because it was implicit in the video and it was Curren himself, not reference to written words. He said that 'you may only use deadly force in the event of feeling that you or a family member are in imminent danger of serous bodily harm or death AND can not readily escape WITHIN your home.' Or words substantially to that effect.

 

[Lilypad]

Over the past few days it has become increasingly clear that investigators working on Taylor's killing believe Sasha Johnson (Taylor's his half-sister), apparently unwittingly, provided a direct link between Taylor and the 4 Fort Myers men charged with killing him in a bungled burglary attempt of that same home.

Apparently Sasha did not understand, "you are the company you keep."

 

[ImnoMensa]

Thats a really intelligent looking group of young men there.

I hope the jail where they are incarcerated is full of Redskins fans.

Just a pack of ne'er do wells out for a quick buck.

Any thief with smarts would have simply run when they heard someone at home,but not these guys they decided to kill. When they kicked in the door their minds were alraedy made up. The woman is only lucky she was hiding under the bed, or it would have been a multiple murder. Was it first degree murder IMO it was.

 

[Larry Gude]

We don't know that...

Any thief with smarts would have simply run when they heard someone at home,but not these guys they decided to kill. When they kicked in the door their minds were alraedy made up. The woman is only lucky she was hiding under the bed, or it would have been a multiple murder. Was it first degree murder IMO it was.

...yet. It may well be the case and it should be treated legally as though they intended murder, but they sure as heck didn't make sure. Two shots in the dark ain't much; not exactly killer stuff. In fact, had they meant murder, they likely would have made sure on him, checked the bedroom and killed the mom and kid as well; no witnesses. Plus, would murderous intent actually involve four people; one shooter and 3 accomplices/witnesses?

Who knows? At least now we get to find out why Sean was interrupted from making his on line donations to widow, orphan and leper organizations in the middle of the night and Vrail gets to apologize for thinking Sean some how brought this on himself.

 

[Ken King]

The absence of OR suggests AND after a semi colon.

No, the semi-colon doesn't suggest either AND or OR, the initial colon indicates that a list of items will be following and the semi-colon after the first item indicates a completely different idea will now be expressed.

 

[Novus Collectus]

...you are correct because it was implicit in the video and it was Curren himself, not reference to written words. He said that 'you may only use deadly force in the event of feeling that you or a family member are in imminent danger of serous bodily harm or death AND can not readily escape WITHIN your home.' Or words substantially to that effect.

But he is wrong if he said that because the high court's decision which has stood over and over is that one may "stand his ground". Curran probably just wanted to give people the impression they couldn't despite what the law really is because he is so anti gun and self defense. Also the decision says "attack upon one's dwelling" and not an attack upon "them". If someone is busting down your door, you can shoot as I understand that to mean.

Also there is a question of curtillage. If you are in your yard (especially if it is fenced off) the castle doctrine may still apply and you do not have to be in your house at the time either according to some lawyers.

 

[ImnoMensa]

I guess your opinion is as good as anyone elses. Two shots in the dark did the deed allright, whether they meant it or not. Then again why should I or anyone else care whether or not the intention was to kill, they did kill, They went out with the right equipment for the job, and THAT WAS intentional.

Did the kid shoot to show off for his buddies, to make them think he was a bad azz? Again who cares? the result was the same. Murder while in the act of a felony.

Lets say a group of pit bulls go out roaming and meet a little girl, and kill her.
Certainly when they left their yard they didnt have intent. But the little girl is just as dead, and they destroy the animals. Do these animals deserve any less?. In your opinion they might. IMO they do not. I see little difference between a group of animals who kill by circumstance and a group of petty criminals who do the same except the petty crimminals should know better. All of these young men have records as long as your arm, they are around 20 years old and already they are career criminals.

Lock them away where they cannot continue their criminal careers. Take the shooter and give him the needle.