Stats show no rise in sales or crime since end of gun ban

[2ndAmendment]

I KNOW WHAT AN ASSUALT RIFLE IS. I know the AR-15 is made by Armorlite company. I'm looking for disscusion on why someone would need one.

Why doesn't everyone drive a Ford? Because they want a Chevy or Dodge, or .... The average person that wants an AR-15 or something of the like is not after an assault weapon. Those guns are not assault weapons. That was my point. If you are asking why someone would want a M-16 which is an assault rifle, then the answer is, "They want one." It is legal for them to have it. What I was trying to get across to you is that NONE, ZERO, NOT ONE of the guns banned in the Clinton AWB was an assault weapon.

 

[2ndAmendment]

If I decided to kill I would most definitely chose a gun as my first choice, would you not?

I wouldn't. I would not want to bring added heat. Let's see. How about drowning someone in a bathtub? Then we could license bathtubs. Or I could use electricity. Then we could outlaw that. A garrote. Then we could outlaw wire. My bare hands. Then we could license everyone who has hands and deem them criminally suspect. There is very little that I could not kill you with including air, so let's outlaw everything.

 

[Bustem' Down]

Everything I want is a machine gun though.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Everything I want is a machine gun though.

You can legally own one if you really want one and can pass the background check. The guns are expensive. They run from $1,299.98 for a Thompson to $174,999.99 for a new in box transferable un-fired FN M240B. A M-16 is about $15k. The check is about as stringent as getting a top secret clearance. No drug use, excessive speeding tickets, large financial debt, etc. Here you go. This is from an on line class 3 dealer.

<table> <tbody><tr><td align="center">[font=arial,verdana] Machine Guns-- Legalities of Ownership[/font] </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">

It is a common misconception that machine guns cannot be owned by law-abiding citizens. This comes from the creation of a variety of confusing laws that have made purchasing a full-auto gun more difficult than purchasing a "normal" gun. But, you can comply with the law and own a machine gun.

First a little history: In May of 1986, certain laws went into effect that made it illegal for 'civilians' to own fully automatic firearms that were manufactured AFTER THAT DATE. Most fully automatic weapons manufactured and registered BEFORE MAY, 1986, MAY BE OWNED BY AND SOLD TO INDIVIDUALS. The full-auto guns that may be owned by individuals are called 'transferable'. Some states DO NOT allow machine gun ownership at all, no matter when the gun was made, but most states do.

To purchase a transferable machine gun, you must meet certain requirements (generally the same as when you purchase another gun), fill out special paperwork (called a 'form 4'), and pay a $200, one-time, transfer tax. Every time a machine gun is transferred, the $200 tax must be paid-- usually by the purchaser. The steps to take to purchase a transferable machine gun are:

1. Find a dealer locally who can assist you in all phases of the transfer. This should go beyond helping you fill out the paperwork: they should help you locate the gun if it isn't in stock and allow you to shoot the gun while your paperwork is being processed by the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms). It will usually take 4-6 weeks for the dealer to get the gun from another dealer if they don't already have it in stock (due to BATF paperwork delays).
2. Get your fingerprints (either by a police dept. or by a qualified fingerprinter, two imprints are needed) and two passport sized pictures taken. These will be used to perform a comprehensive criminal background check on you.
3. Have your local dealer help you fill out an "Application for Tax Paid Transfer And Registration Of Firearm" for, known as a "form 4".
4. You must have the signature of the Chief Law Enforcement (CLEO) officer that has jurisdiction over the municipality in which you live on the form 4. This could be the City Chief or the County Sheriff, for example. This is usually not a problem-- in machine gun friendly states. The form 4, CLEO signature, 2 fingerprint cards, 2 pictures, and a $200 check (your one-time transfer tax) must all be mailed to the BATF and an approved tax stamp returned before you may take possession of the gun. This may take anywhere from 2 to 5 months.

Although it may seem complicated, we are happy to help you through every step in the process. We have transferable guns in stock, and if we don't have it, we can tap into a network of dealers in other states to find it for you. Let us help you get the full-auto gun that you've always wanted-- they are worth it!

How about Suppressors or Short-Barreled Shotguns? Yes you probably can! (Most of the same restrictions apply).



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</td> </tr> <tr> <td> <hr></td></tr></tbody> </table>

 

[Bruzilla]

I have five assault rifles, and am paying off a sixth at the moment. They are impractical for home defense, and not very legal for hunting in most states. Why do I have them? Because I like them. They sit quietly in my gun rack until I take them to the range and go target shooting with them. While they are no more functionally useful than beanie babies, commorative plates, or dolls, they are something that people collect. As for criminals, they've never been very popular due to their size.

A check of the latest Shotgun News yesterday revealed that gun makers are only now turning out new guns in the pre-ban configurations, and prices are still holding steady at ban levels and will likely stay there until inventories go down some. That is why you haven't seen any major increases in assault rifle sales.

 

[Triggerfish]

It's pretty obvious from Spoiled's remark ("I dont think I need an assault riffle to mow down deer or a single robber") that he thinks an "assault rifle" is an automatic rifle. However, automatic rifles have been and still are highly restricted. "Assault rifles" as they were defined in the AWB were semi-auto rifles with scary features like a carrying handle, floding stock, or a bayonet lug (oooo, scary).

From what I'm reading it looks like that there are actually more than one definition for "assault rifle" Different definition for law, society, military, etc

From Webster

Main Entry: assault rifle
Function: noun
: any of various automatic or semiautomatic rifles designed for military use with large capacity magazines

From wikipedia

Assault rifles are selective fire intermediate-power rifles.

The majority of selective fire weapons have a fully-automatic mode as the second option. With each pull of the trigger, the weapon continues to load and fire rounds until the trigger is released or the ammunition is depleted. The M14A1 and M16A1 of Vietnam fame; the ubiquitous Soviet-designed AK47; the Israeli Galil; the FN FAL; and the M4A1 carbine are but a few examples of this type of selective fire weapon.

In the United States, the term 'assault weapon' was used in certain groups primarily to describe a collection of semi-automatic firearms that have certain features, such as a magazine larger then ten rounds or a folding stock.

Articles in category "Assault rifles"
There are 62 articles in this category.A
AG-3
AK 22 Sidefolder
AK-101
AK-103
AK-47
AK-74
AK4
AN-94
APS Underwater Assault Rifle 5.56 mm
AR-10
AR-18
Ak 5
Ares Shrike 5.56
Assault rifle
B
Beryl (assault rifle)
C
C1A1
CETME
Chinese Type 56 Assault Rifle
Chinese Type 68 Rifle
Colt Commando
D
Diemaco C7
F
FAMAS
FARA 83
FG42
FN CAL
FN F2000
FN FAL
FN FNC
FN SCAR
G
G11
Galil
H
HK 53
Heckler and Koch G11
Heckler und Koch G3
Heckler und Koch G36
I
IMBEL MD2
INSAS 5.56 mm
K
KN300 Assault Rifle
L
L64/65
LR 300 By Z-M Weapons
M
M14 (rifle)
M cont.
M16 (rifle)
M4 Carbine
R
R4 assault rifle
R5 assault rifle
Rk 62
S
SA80
SAR-21
SIG 550
Sa 58
Sako M90
Sig 552 Commando
Steyr ACR
Steyr AUG
Stoner 63
Sturmgewehr 44
T
Tavor TAR-21
V
Valmet M76
Valmet M82
Vektor CR-21
X
XM29 OICW
XM8 carbine

 

[Triggerfish]

I am sure the Founders, most of them, would tell you we have far too many laws. Their idea of the proper amount of law was that the common man would be able to read and understand all of them in one days reading with no ambiguity. I don't think you could catalog all the law volumes in one day much less read and understand them.

I think society today is a lot more complicated now then in the 18th century. Shall we get rid of all laws related to the internet, telephones, genetic engineering, drinking and driving, pollution laws, aviation, women and minority right to vote, etc. Get rid of the income tax? Back then the United States was a fontier nation where many people were fighting to survive on the very basic level.


Ancient Greeks thought everything was made up of the four elements.
Medieval Europeans thought the universe rotated around the earth.
Many of the founding fathers owned slaves.

All these were widely accepted at their times. Time changes society and new laws are needed.

 

[Bruzilla]

From what I'm reading it looks like that there are actually more than one definition for "assault rifle" Different definition for law, society, military, etc

From Webster

Main Entry: assault rifle
Function: noun
: any of various automatic or semiautomatic rifles designed for military use with large capacity magazines

From wikipedia

Assault rifles are selective fire intermediate-power rifles.

Wikipedia's is the more correct definition. The first true assault rifle, the German MP-44, aka Sturmgewehr 44, was developed to answer a specific need. Prior to the assault rife, infantry and paratrooper personnel were limited to three primary types of light weapons: Main Battle Rifles (MBRs), machine pistols (aka submachine guns), and handguns. Since machine pistols fired pistol ammunition, they were not as effective at range as an MBR, but since MBRs of the time fired large ammunition (30.06, 8MM, .303, etc.) carrying enough ammunition to sustain large-scale combat operations was difficult, especially for paratroopers. So the Germans developed the 7.92X33K cartridge/MP-44 combination. The 7.92 Kurtz (short) cartridge was a shortened version of the 7.92X57 cartridge fired by the MBRs carried by the Germans, which meant that more ammunition could be carried, and the cartridge was far more effective than 9MM pistol ammunition.

So, the first true assault rife was a selective-fire rifle that was designed to fire a cartidge that was between a pistol and MBR cartidge.

 

[Vince]

Cars are meant to be driven. McDonalds is meant to be eaten. Guns are meant to Kill. Get it? Got it? Good!

You'd better check your statistics. There are more people killed every year in the US by heart disease, high blood pressure, cholesteral, etc, i.e. eating the stuff at Mickey Dees than by guns. More people killed in car accidents each day than by guns. If you want statistics just punch them up on the web. You'll get all you want, but don't sit there and tell me GUNS KILL. That's

 

[ylexot]

To me, the term "assault rifle" is just that...a term. As Shakespeare wrote, "that which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet." It doesn't matter what you call these guns, it's the features that matter. Full auto and select fire are restricted and need special permits to obtain. If you want to ban semi-auto, you have to ban ALL semi-auto. Banning them based on cosmetic differences (as was done in the AWB) is just plain stupid.

 

[Bruzilla]

Full auto and select fire are restricted and need special permits to obtain.

Actually, full auto and selective fire weapons were restricted by NFA 1934, and the manufacture, import, conversion, and sale of new weapons was banned by NFA 1986. Only weapons made before 1986 are still transferrable to private individuals.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I think society today is a lot more complicated now then in the 18th century. Shall we get rid of all laws related to the internet, telephones, genetic engineering, drinking and driving, pollution laws, aviation, women and minority right to vote, etc. Get rid of the income tax? Back then the United States was a fontier nation where many people were fighting to survive on the very basic level.


Ancient Greeks thought everything was made up of the four elements.
Medieval Europeans thought the universe rotated around the earth.
Many of the founding fathers owned slaves.

All these were widely accepted at their times. Time changes society and new laws are needed.

The point is the laws are far too numerous and complex. There is no way you or anyone can live an active day outside their own home and not break at least one law. Even staying inside your home, you may break a law. It should not be that way.

 

[SmallTown]

The point is the laws are far too numerous and complex. There is no way you or anyone can live an active day outside their own home and not break at least one law. Even staying inside your home, you may break a law. It should not be that way.

Only bad thing is, most laws are put in place for a reason, based on people's actions. So I'm not sure which is worse, the idiots that cause the laws to be in place, or the lawmakers creating them all.

 

[SmallTown]

As Shakespeare wrote...

damn, don't quote Shakespeare in a gun thread. You'll confuse everyone

j/k carry on.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Only bad thing is, most laws are put in place for a reason, based on people's actions. So I'm not sure which is worse, the idiots that cause the laws to be in place, or the lawmakers creating them all.

Or could it be "do gooders" that want to save people from themselves and pass laws to enable them to control the actions of others just because the legislator or some lobbyist group doesn't like something. The knee jerk reaction of "there ought to be a law against that." Well maybe but then again, maybe not. The best government is the least government. The best laws are the fewest.

 

[Triggerfish]

There is no way you or anyone can live an active day outside their own home and not break at least one law. Even staying inside your home, you may break a law. It should not be that way.

I do not believe I can live an active day outside without breaking at least one law. I know a lot people jay walk and drive past the speed limit but no one is forcing you to do that. Masybe you should have left earlier or have more patience. Swearing? If you can't control yourself enough that you can't stop using profanities in public maybe you should consider changing your habits. Littering, turning without using a turn signal. All these are common crimes yet majority are preventable.


However there are plenty of laws that were and still are stupid. In many states and the military there is a law against sodomy. Sodomy depending whose law it is can include oral and anal sex or even sexual positions other than the missionary. These laws in many cases include both hetrosexual and homosexual. I could care less what goes on between two consenting adults in privacy.

I think there is a law still in Washington state that makes it illegal to take a bath with out your clothing on. They do need to check over the laws and get rid of outdated ones or ones that are plain stupid.

 

[Triggerfish]

However a lot of the laws do not pertain to our everyday life. They may be area or career specific. Most of us do not have to deal with laws concerning flying an airplane. Or laws concerning corals off the coast of Florida.

 

[vraiblonde]

The best laws are the fewest.

The best laws are the ones that are enforced. No sense in making more gun laws - it's already against the law to kill someone with a gun, but rarely does someone who does it get charged with a weapons violation in addition to murder.

They should hand out a mandatory death penalty if you kill someone with a firearm. You'd see firearm murders go down real quick.

 

[Triggerfish]

The best laws are the ones that are enforced.

I noticed that about Singapore. If people from this country knows anything about Singapore it's how they don't mess around with criminals. Michael Fay, the American kid vandalized cars there and got caned about 10 yrs ago.

 

[Bustem' Down]

Is there anyway to own machine guns? Special license or something? I'd love to own an M1918A2 BAR or M2. The other problem is that my taste in weapons tends to fall in the antique catagory. A kind of expensive catagory.