Stats show no rise in sales or crime since end of gun ban

[woodchuck70]

Not to go back to the first page of this thread on everyone, but the purpose of the 2nd Amendment was to allow for everyday citizens to over through the government. And this purpose is just as relevant today as it was back then. I am not saying that our government isn't working, only that we are the only semi-democratic nation to only have one civil war and one revolution. Does this make our form of government perfect? Will we ever need another such war to make our nation a better place? Are our citizens so smart as to never elect anyone who would attempt to assume an all powerful role?

The problem is when talking about these types of weapons people conjure up images of insane militia men in Wyoming collecting assault rifles for a strategic strike. However, the need for citizens of this country to have a means to defend and perhaps rise up against our government isn't only a right but should be an obligation. I know guns are no longer required for food and survival but look at what happens in countries where citizens are not afford the ability to over throw their own government, Iraq under Saddam, Iran, North Korea, China. All of these countries were able to suppress their civilian uprisings demanding a better government. Sadly the same could happen here, despite the Founding Fathers wishes, if we ever needed as a country to reform our government by force.

And here's a question for all of you reading this and thinking that I am a nut, what government reform works when it is put in place by the same bureaucracy that needs to be reformed?

Not a sermon just a thought.

 

[Bruzilla]

Is there anyway to own machine guns? Special license or something? I'd love to own an M1918A2 BAR or M2. The other problem is that my taste in weapons tends to fall in the antique catagory. A kind of expensive catagory.

For the most part, anyone who can legally purchase a handgun or assault weapon can purchase a Class III weapon, a category which includes selective-fire and automatic weapons, short-barrelled weapons, and suppressed weapons, provided those weapons were imported, manufactured, or converted prior to May 1986. Also, for older weapons, the weapon must have been registered with the BATF prior to November 1968 to be legal. This was the last amnesty period for people to register war trophies and bring backs without any investigations. So if you meet a widow who found her husband's WWII BAR stashed away in the attic and wants to sell it to you, if the gun wasn't registered prior to 11/68, you can't legally buy it... although if the price was right it would be in my gun rack in a New York minute. If the gun is legally transferrable, you must pay a $200 transfer tax to have the gun transferred to your name, and the gun is yours.

Then, there is the issue of price. Legal BARs sell for between $12,000 and $15,000 depending on condition. There were some semi-auto BARs made before the AWB, but the prices on there are sky-high also. A legal M-2 carbine will run you about $5,000 or so. BTW, the dad of a friend of mine down here has two M-2 carbines sitting in a gun safe is his trailer. The bad news is that he locked them up for about ten years with no moisture control, and they are rusted into nothing.

 

[Bruzilla]

The problem is when talking about these types of weapons people conjure up images of insane militia men in Wyoming collecting assault rifles for a strategic strike.

And why do you suppose that is? I've seen countless news reports shot at insane militia men meetings, where guys wearing cammies, and with most of their teeth missing, loudly proclaim that they will shoot anyone that dares to interfere with their rights. Yet I've never seen a reporter doing a story from a firing range where people are firing M-14s/M-1As or AR-15s in service rifle competitions - one of the fastest growing target shooting categories. There are thousands of people out at ranges firing these rifles in competition for every one militia guy, yet the media only shows you that tiny minority. And by the way, when was the last time a militia ever took up arms? The last one was that quasi-group of criminals out west who were nothing more than a check kiting operation going under the name of a militia.

So why do these weapons conjure up those images? Because a lot of anti-gun people have gone to a lot of trouble to make sure those are the only images you see.

 

[Triggerfish]

we are the only semi-democratic nation to only have one civil war and one revolution.

This isn't an attack or anything but I am wondering where did you get this?

Also please keep in mind that the U.S. is barely over 200 years some countries are thousands of years old. For example Switzerland was recognized as an independent nation in 1648 and it too only had one civil war in 1847. Iceland I don't think ever has had a civil war. It has lost its independence for a while....to Norway and/or Denmark

 

[Bustem' Down]

Then, there is the issue of price. Legal BARs sell for between $12,000 and $15,000 depending on condition. There were some semi-auto BARs made before the AWB, but the prices on there are sky-high also. A legal M-2 carbine will run you about $5,000 or so. BTW, the dad of a friend of mine down here has two M-2 carbines sitting in a gun safe is his trailer. The bad news is that he locked them up for about ten years with no moisture control, and they are rusted into nothing.

Some people just don't appreciate a nice weapon. I watched that show "Mail Call" the other day. Wouldn't mind getting my hands on ole "Ma Duece". R.Lee Ermy wasted a bunch of watermelons with one and it made me miss shooting those on the ship. That guy has the best job in the world.

 

[Triggerfish]

Some people just don't appreciate a nice weapon. I watched that show "Mail Call" the other day. Wouldn't mind getting my hands on ole "Ma Duece". R.Lee Ermy wasted a bunch of watermelons with one and it made me miss shooting those on the ship. That guy has the best job in the world.

I got to shoot a 50 cal. 2 Ammo box full in Fallon, NV.

 

[Bruzilla]

M-2s are nice, but I can't get past the fact that everytime I hear a "bang" I just spent about $1.00.

 

[2ndAmendment]

The best laws are the ones that are enforced. No sense in making more gun laws - it's already against the law to kill someone with a gun, but rarely does someone who does it get charged with a weapons violation in addition to murder.

They should hand out a mandatory death penalty if you kill someone with a firearm. You'd see firearm murders go down real quick.

Why just with a firearm? That was the point of our testimony in Annapolis. It cheapens the life of the person that was killed with a knife or baseball bat. Also, your statement leaves out the possibility that the person that was killed may have been threatening the life of the person that did the killing.

Why not a law that says if you use any implement as a weapon in the commission of a felony and kill someone with that implement, you get mandatory death penalty. That covers guns, knives, 2x4, pipes, bricks, and anything else that can be wielded as a weapon.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Is there anyway to own machine guns? Special license or something? I'd love to own an M1918A2 BAR or M2. The other problem is that my taste in weapons tends to fall in the antique catagory. A kind of expensive catagory.

Hello? Is this thing on? Do you have me on ignore? Did you read this post? http://forums.somd.com/showpost.php?p=927605&postcount=44

Short answer is: Yes. You can legally own a machine gun if you are a citizen and not a convicted felon.

 

[2ndAmendment]

And why do you suppose that is? I've seen countless news reports shot at insane militia men meetings, where guys wearing cammies, and with most of their teeth missing, loudly proclaim that they will shoot anyone that dares to interfere with their rights. Yet I've never seen a reporter doing a story from a firing range where people are firing M-14s/M-1As or AR-15s in service rifle competitions - one of the fastest growing target shooting categories. There are thousands of people out at ranges firing these rifles in competition for every one militia guy, yet the media only shows you that tiny minority. And by the way, when was the last time a militia ever took up arms? The last one was that quasi-group of criminals out west who were nothing more than a check kiting operation going under the name of a militia.

So why do these weapons conjure up those images? Because a lot of anti-gun people have gone to a lot of trouble to make sure those are the only images you see.

The people in the media, mostly anti-gunners, present their side since they are in control of the media. They don't want people to know that there is a fun side to owning and using guns.

 

[2ndAmendment]

M-2s are nice, but I can't get past the fact that everytime I hear a "bang" I just spent about $1.00.

Make that $1.25 for the cheap stuff and $7+ for the good stuff. Just reloading with good components can cost over $2 a round. Hornady AMAX bullets are over a $1 each. Then you need a case, primer, and powder. Of course you need a heavy duty press. A RCBS Rock Chucker just won't cut it. Guess why I know?

 

[Cletus_Vandam]

For the most part, anyone who can legally purchase a handgun or assault weapon can purchase a Class III weapon, a category which includes selective-fire and automatic weapons, short-barrelled weapons, and suppressed weapons...

Not trying to pick, but aren't short-barreled shot guns covered under the A.O.W. (all other weapons) classification?

As I understood this, you could purchase a 12" mod'ed Mossberg for purchase price plus a one-time $200 stamp; whereas the Class III stamp was significantly higher and required periodic renewal.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Not trying to pick, but aren't short-barreled shot guns covered under the A.O.W. (all other weapons) classification?

As I understood this, you could purchase a 12" mod'ed Mossberg for purchase price plus a one-time $200 stamp; whereas the Class III stamp was significantly higher and required periodic renewal.

See my post quoted for bustin --- twice. It has the details.

 

[Bustem' Down]

Hello? Is this thing on? Do you have me on ignore? Did you read this post? http://forums.somd.com/showpost.php?p=927605&postcount=44

Short answer is: Yes. You can legally own a machine gun if you are a citizen and not a convicted felon.

Oh sorry, I missed that one.

 

[Bruzilla]

Hello? Is this thing on? Do you have me on ignore? Did you read this post? http://forums.somd.com/showpost.php?p=927605&postcount=44

Short answer is: Yes. You can legally own a machine gun if you are a citizen and not a convicted felon.

2A, your post is a bit of an exageration. I've had three class III weapons (MP-40, M-16, and an M-14) and they are a lot easier to get than your post indicates (I've also had a TS clearance and it's no where near that difficult.) I've also held a Class II manufacturer license to convert AR-15s to M-16s, and assisted people with obtaining their Class III transfers. The only real difference between getting any handgun and a Class III weapons is that you need to get the NAC and your fingerprints, but the Class III NAC isn't nearly as comprehensive as one for a clearance. As long as you've never been convicted of a major crime, you're usually good to go.

What IS hard is obtaining a Class III dealers license... that's a nightmare!

 

[2ndAmendment]

2A, your post is a bit of an exageration. I've had three class III weapons (MP-40, M-16, and an M-14) and they are a lot easier to get than your post indicates (I've also had a TS clearance and it's no where near that difficult.) I've also held a Class II manufacturer license to convert AR-15s to M-16s, and assisted people with obtaining their Class III transfers. The only real difference between getting any handgun and a Class III weapons is that you need to get the NAC and your fingerprints, but the Class III NAC isn't nearly as comprehensive as one for a clearance. As long as you've never been convicted of a major crime, you're usually good to go.

What IS hard is obtaining a Class III dealers license... that's a nightmare!

:shrug: I never had any problems with any clearance, so that was my point of reference. You obviously have more experience in the area. I have only wanted a class III weapon but never have had one. The majority of my post was from the web site of a class III dealer.

The gist of the whole thing is it is legal for law abiding citizens to own fully automatic/select fire/class III weapons.

 

[Cletus_Vandam]

I know this thread kind of wandered off it's original thought, but I think the main thing that everyone here needs to keep in mind is that including fully automatic, class III weapons in a discussion relating to Clinton’s AWB is really comparing apples to oranges. The two are not related; and mixing the two into this discussion only confuses people who don’t know much on AWB subject. As stated earlier, the AWB did just as good as every other weapon ban or restriction that is or has been on the books. All they do is keep the law-abiding citizen from obtaining a weapon legally. Does anyone out there really believe that “joe-criminal” is going into Wal Mart or the local gun store and buying the tool of their trade?

I really don’t have too much of a problem with the waiting period, but I have heard cases of where MSP has abused their time line when it comes to the review period. Furthermore, MSP never “approves” your purchase; they simply state that you are “not disapproved”. What does that tell you about gun ownership in this fine state?

 

[2ndAmendment]

I agree. The thread got "hijacked".

The AWB (Assault Weapons Ban) affected NO assault weapons. That is absolute fact. The AWB only affected ordinary firearms with certain cosmetic features.

It was the same as saying you're not allowed in the club because your shoes are black.