The Bathroom 'Freedom Fighters'

[Tilted]

The newly gay and trans always think everyone's looking at them, and chances are good nobody really gives a damn. They are self-conscious just because they are, not necessarily because anyone is paying them special attention.

My nephew is gay, and now he's normal about it but when he first came out he was highly paranoid and sure that everyone was looking at him and pointing. PS, he lived in Seattle at the time, so...um...yeah, I'm sure the locals were just ate up with this particular gay dude. What's amusing is that he was insisting to his mom and me quite vehemently when we were back in Lincoln that people downtown were staring at him. I pointed out that he (at the time) had bright orange hair, and perhaps that's what people were staring at. No, he insisted, they were staring at him because he is gay.



Again, most trans people - if they're any good at it - could easily use the restroom that they most closely resemble and nobody would bother them. So why is this a thing?

I will suggest, even if you're not very good at being trans, you'd have to super suck at it to get anyone to give a damn. Sure, there will be a few people who care desperately and have nothing better to do with their time than pick a fight or be an ahole, but if the goal is to eradicate ALL forms of aholery in ALL humans...well, good luck with that.

Sure. But I think that's part of the opposition to this aspect of the North Carolina law. Now public facilities have to have a policy of not allowing transgender males to use the men's bathroom. Before they could perhaps just use the men's bathroom as you suggest and no one would notice. Now there's a law saying - hey, don't allow that to happen. They have to use the women's room and potentially cause a scene. Can they still just use the men's room and not have anyone notice? Yeah, in a lot of cases they probably could. But the point is there's a law against allowing them to do that and that law, if followed, will in some cases cause a scene to be made where otherwise there'd be no need for one.

How many transgenders are of the temperament that they'd prefer there not need to be a scene as opposed to how many are there that want the opportunity to cause a scene? I have little idea. I'd hope, and even guess, there's considerably more of the former. But I really don't know. At any rate, for some people I think that's what this is about - being able to use the bathroom that they look like they belong in so that no problems are created - they don't have to feel uncomfortable and those around them don't have to feel uncomfortable.

This gets back to the question I asked earlier. I wonder if there are existing penalties in North Carolina law (or local laws) for a person not using the correct bathroom. So is the effect of this law mostly symbolic (outside of the schools contexts) as a transgender man can just go on using the men's room without fear of legal consequence (and mostly without others noticing), and the reverse for a transgender woman?

 

[vraiblonde]

True, and that's also the case with some dude in a dress trying to make you look at him.

What you cannot deny is that any tranny worth his salt would not even be noticed in a ladies restroom. We are used to women of all shapes and sizes, with varying degrees of femininity. We don't look twice at them, beyond a cursory "That is one masculine looking woman." I am positive I've shared a restroom with trans people before and didn't even know it, because nobody cares until you make a stink and force them to care.

So if anyone notices the shemale in the ladies room, it's because he MADE her notice him.

You cannot get past that, sorry.

 

[Radiant1]

Absolutely not. I am making anatomy the entire sum of sexual identification (not orientation, not preference, not gender identification, but sexual identification). Not even with me, either. But, I know someone is a male if they have a penis, and female if they were born without one.No one that I can tell is evaluating the amount a person is male or female. "Less of a woman"? How would that be measured? What are the units that is quantified in? Or, is it really just a stupid question?Pretty sure they can tell whether or not they have a penis, so I'm thinking they're still female.There you go - wrong with the stem of the question, no need to go any further than this inaccurate premiseI hold none of these people to a different standard than anyone else. Not sure how to answer a question that presupposes an inaccurate premise.

You said, "I have a penis, therefore I am male. As much as I may identify as a female, I am a male." And I'm saying that you are making genitals the sole qualifier of whether one is male or female. I don't see this as a false premise.

And I really want you to directly address the hermaphrodite question. What gender are they, and what bathroom should they use?

I fully believe they will succeed. I fully believe we will go back to Lib's vaunted days when there is no difference between where men and women bath, urinate, etc. I'm just not seeing that as an advancement, or improvement.

Fair enough.

 

[Tilted]

What you cannot deny is that any tranny worth his salt would not even be noticed in a ladies restroom. We are used to women of all shapes and sizes, with varying degrees of femininity. We don't look twice at them, beyond a cursory "That is one masculine looking woman." I am positive I've shared a restroom with trans people before and didn't even know it, because nobody cares until you make a stink and force them to care.

So if anyone notices the shemale in the ladies room, it's because he MADE her notice him.

You cannot get past that, sorry.

So should he be allowed to use the women's room or forced to use the men's - where, presumably, to the extent that what you're saying here is true (and I think it would be in many cases), he would be noticed as being out of place?

 

[vraiblonde]

Now public facilities have to have a policy of not allowing transgender males to use the men's bathroom.

How are they going to even enforce that, do spot checks? "Oops, sorry Louise - I thought you were Louis. You can put your pants back on."

This is a made up problem with no solution because it's not a problem. All it is is gay activists wanting to piss off the heteros and give us the old yuck foo.

Trannies are going to be uncomfortable no matter what anyone else does. THEY are uncomfortable and it has nothing to do with the rest of us. They are uncomfortable by their very nature, or lack thereof, and not because of anything anyone else did. There is no legislation or acceptance that will make a man who thinks he's a woman be comfortable.

 

[vraiblonde]

So should he be allowed to use the women's room or forced to use the men's - where, presumably, to the extent that what you're saying here is true (and I think it would be in many cases), he would be noticed as being out of place?

I have already said: they should use the restroom that they look like. If you're a trans guy being a woman, use the ladies room and shut up about it. Nobody cares, nobody will bother you, nobody's going to check. Nobody will call the police. If, however, you are some hairy guy who is clearly a guy, get your ass out and go use the mens room.

Like I said, this is a stupid "solution" to a non-problem.

 

[vraiblonde]

And I'm saying that you are making genitals the sole qualifier of whether one is male or female.

Hello? What do you think genitals are? Some arbitrary meaningless body part?

 

[Radiant1]

What you cannot deny is that any tranny worth his salt would not even be noticed in a ladies restroom. We are used to women of all shapes and sizes, with varying degrees of femininity. We don't look twice at them, beyond a cursory "That is one masculine looking woman." I am positive I've shared a restroom with trans people before and didn't even know it, because nobody cares until you make a stink and force them to care.

So if anyone notices the shemale in the ladies room, it's because he MADE her notice him.

You cannot get past that, sorry.

No, it's because you cared to look and made a judgment.

It's true that some "pass" more than others; however, I don't make "passing" a requirement for my acceptance that people are born in the wrong body. :shrug:

All it is is gay activists wanting to piss off the heteros and give us the old yuck foo.

Transgender doesn't mean gay, and I'm having a really hard time believing that activists would want to just piss CIS people off when the repercussions of doing so could be horrendous. Certainly, they believe in what they are doing for legitimate reasons just like activists for other causes in the past.

Hello? What do you think genitals are? Some arbitrary meaningless body part?

Not meaningless by any means, but if you will notice I said they are not the *SOLE QUALIFIER* of being male and/or female. On the contrary, to say that they are is to render everything else about being male and/or female meaningless.

 

[Hijinx]

Hello? What do you think genitals are? Some arbitrary meaningless body part?

Just shows how crazy this argument is, Now we have hermaphrodites getting involved.

Sheit. Go wherever you want to go, if anybody doesn't like it they will tell you soon enough.
Anything is acceptable in today's PC culture.
Why use the bathroom at all , in New York you use the entrance to the closest building or piss in the elevators.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-floor-ruined-mechanics-putting-action.html
In some countries you just go in the gutter.

Why should the US be worried about where you want to pee.

 

[This_person]

You said, "I have a penis, therefore I am male. As much as I may identify as a female, I am a male." And I'm saying that you are making genitals the sole qualifier of whether one is male or female. I don't see this as a false premise.

Again, I believe you are conflating sex with sexuality or gender. It is really simple math to say male is male. Male does not equal masculine, or beard-wearing, or diesel pick-up driving. It means male.

And I really want you to directly address the hermaphrodite question. What gender are they, and what bathroom should they use?

A fair question for which I have no good answer beyond what they identify as and presumably have sex organs for. Most are selected at birth and the other organ is removed. However, you are discussing 0.05% of the population, so I don't really see a strong need to come up with a solution for them.

 

[SamSpade]

Just shows how crazy this argument is, Now we have hermaphrodites getting involved.

Sheit. Go wherever you want to go, if anybody doesn't like it they will tell you soon enough.
Anything is acceptable in today's PC culture.
Why use the bathroom at all , in New York you use the entrance to the closest building or piss in the elevators.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-floor-ruined-mechanics-putting-action.html
In some countries you just go in the gutter.

Why should the US be worried about where you want to pee.

Heck, if it's New York you can just do it against a police car.

 

[Radiant1]

Again, I believe you are conflating sex with sexuality or gender. It is really simple math to say male is male. Male does not equal masculine, or beard-wearing, or diesel pick-up driving. It means male.

That's English, not math. And this is fine, but why are you delegating someone to a certain bathroom because of their sex as opposed to their gender (or even sexuality for that matter)? I think Vrai already addressed the issues with this. Are you going to have penis and/or vagina check at the door?

A fair question for which I have no good answer beyond what they identify as and presumably have sex organs for. Most are selected at birth and the other organ is removed. However, you are discussing 0.05% of the population, so I don't really see a strong need to come up with a solution for them.

A hermaphrodite has both sexual organs, so in regard to a hermaphrodite and the bathroom issue you resort to "What they identify as". So why do you not allow the same for a transgender person?

 

[Gilligan]

Are you going to have penis and/or vagina check at the door?

Might have to start doing that..until very recently it was never an issue, but have to keep up with the changing times.

Can't wait to read the position description in the want ads.

 

[Radiant1]

Might have to start doing that..until very recently it was never an issue, but have to keep up with the changing times.

Can't wait to read the position description in the want ads.

Now *that's* what will bring the pervs out. They'll get to perv AND make money while doing it.

 

[GURPS]

.... and CIS people ....

 

[vraiblonde]

It's true that some "pass" more than others; however, I don't make "passing" a requirement for my acceptance that people are born in the wrong body. :shrug:

Well, that's you. Unfortunately you have to share your world with the rest of us and most women don't want some guy in our restroom.

Why do just the trans people get to be "comfortable"? Why can't other people be comfortable too? Do they own the world or something?

What part of this do you not understand, in your zeal to be oh so kewl and hip with the LGBTQRSTUV crowd?

 

[Gilligan]

Now *that's* what will bring the pervs out.

Looks like they are already out anyway. I'm astonished to learn that there are so many men that want pee in the women's rest rooms.

 

[This_person]

That's English, not math. And this is fine, but why are you delegating someone to a certain bathroom because of their sex as opposed to their gender (or even sexuality for that matter)? I think Vrai already addressed the issues with this. Are you going to have penis and/or vagina check at the door?

When it comes to the science of it, it's as simple as math. Male = male, male =/= female.

I would not check. I see no need to check. Vrai did mention it, and it makes very good sense to me - if the people in the room don't know, why would they care? The ones who are likely to BE a problem are the ones who are going to let you know whether they are male or female. A law that says, "you can't be here if you're male" gives a redress to the concern. A law that says, "if you want to waive your penis in front of little girls because you claim to identify as feminine" is in effect, there is very little redress.

A hermaphrodite has both sexual organs, so in regard to a hermaphrodite and the bathroom issue you resort to "What they identify as". So why do you not allow the same for a transgender person?

Again, we're talking about literally 0.05% of the population as born, and a smaller percentage because most doctors/parents make a sex decision for the hermaphrodite. I "resort" to that in way of saying I have no good answer, and see no need for one. Assuming half of the children born this way have a sex selected for them at birth, we're talking 0.025%. If NYC has 10 million people, that means it is an issue for 2500 people. That seems like an insignificant number to be concerned with, and not worthy of law. And, I'd bet it's actually a much lower number than that, but the 0.05% is accurate - I simply can't tell how many are fixed at birth.

 

[Radiant1]

What? I'm not sure why you're rolling your eyes at me. It's not a derogatory term.

Well, that's you. Unfortunately you have to share your world with the rest of us and most women don't want some guy in our restroom.

Why do just the trans people get to be "comfortable"? Why can't other people be comfortable too? Do they own the world or something?

Nope, they don't own the world anymore than you do. What's ultimately going to happen is that younger generations will accept it just like you currently accept lesbians in your domain. Big deal. It doesn't make me uncomfortable so it's not my problem, it's yours.

What part of this do you not understand, in your zeal to be oh so kewl and hip with the LGBTQRSTUV crowd?

Don't condescend to me, and don't think you know my motivations because you aren't that good at guessing.

 

[Gilligan]

It doesn't make me uncomfortable so it's not my problem, it's yours.

My gawd.