the Humanity of Jesus

[Marie]

If, however, Jesus actually received His Humanity from Mary, He must have received her original sin. We all have that stain passed down from our first parents.

Hi,
Christ, didnt recieve mans (Adamic sin nature) inheritted from Adam, because that is passed down through the seed of Man, That's why he was born of a virgin. His humanity was through being born of the flesh of Mary, but he was Fully God and Fully Man.

Mary being born of a man her self, and could not have been sinless for that reason, but she was Chosen by God. God found favor in her and blessed her with a very unique honor!

No man could have ever been born of man, and been perfect in order to provide an apropiation for our sin. God knew that he had to die in order to pay that debt, thats what makes his grace so amazing, that yet while we were still sinners he loved us enough to pay that debt on our behalf.

 

[Starman3000m]

Hi,
Christ, didnt recieve mans (Adamic sin nature) inheritted from Adam, because that is passed down through the seed of Man, That's why he was born of a virgin. His humanity was through being born of the flesh of Mary, but he was Fully God and Fully Man.

Mary being born of a man her self, and could not have been sinless for that reason, but she was Chosen by God. God found favor in her and blessed her with a very unique honor!

No man could have ever been born of man, and been perfect in order to provide an apropiation for our sin. God knew that he had to die in order to pay that debt, thats what makes his grace so amazing, that yet while we were still sinners he loved us enough to pay that debt on our behalf.

Exactly right Marie. Romans 5:12-20 explains how mankind (humans) inherit the sin seed through the one man, Adam, but how mankind is justified through the righteousness of One Man, Yeshua. It was imperative that Yeshua be completely sinless in order to have been able to provide the perfect, unblemished Atoning Blood that could be acceptable by God for the remission of sins. This is the Free Gift of God to all who accept by faith that Yeshua was indeed the Divine Son of God, Lamb of God, Resurrected Saviour of mankind, and Messiah who will return to establish God's True Peace on earth for a millennial reign from Jerusalem.

If Yeshua would have inherited the sinful nature from His mother, Mary, His Blood would not have been an acceptable sacrifice as it would have been spotted and impure from birth just as our is. But, as noted, the sin-seed is passed down the line by the human father - not the mother.

 

[libby]

Hi libby,

You raise an interesting point here regarding Yeshua's humanity through being born of a virgin human woman and His Divinity through being born as a result of direct Intervention of the Holy Spirit. The miracles He performed and ability to discern the thoughts of others indicate, of course that He was more than just an ordinary "human".

Yes, Yeshua had human traits and attributes in the physical sense but His ability to be indwelled by The Spirit of God gave Him greater power and ability to overcome the world in the sense of temptations and trials that He endured.

The Holy Bible states that Yeshua was "tempted in all points" yet remained without sin. That means His total being was sinless even though born of a woman.

Now, here is the deciding point that you raise: Did Yeshua inherit sin because of His human mother. The answer, is NO due to the fact that according to the Holy Bible the sin seed is passed down through the genes of the human father (Adam). In other words, the woman does not genealogically carry the sin seed although she would be be the recipient of a sinful nature from her human father. Did I lose you here?

Without a human father to pass along the sin-seed, the virgin birth through Mary allowed Yeshua's blood to be sinless, without blemish and void of the curse that was placed upon Adam and Adam's seed. In other words, Mary was still a human of sinful flesh and in need of forgiveness but Yeshua was not.

Of course, this was a unique birth that could only have been accomplished by Yahweh whereby even the prophets had proclaimed the uniqueness of His birth: "Unto us a child is born..." There had to be something unique about the Son of God and it was His attribute to relate to mankind as a human but walk among His people as God; Perfect and Sinless in all manner from birth to death and Resurrected unto Glory.

One other point to add here: In Judaism, the family genealogy of Jewishness is passed down through the mother not the father. So, Yeshua was able to have inherited the lineage of David through Mary - and did not come through Joseph since Joseph was not the father anyway!

A child born of a Jewish mother is Jewish; a child born of a Jewish father and non-Jewish mother does not inherit the Jewish line.

I am intrigued by your statement that the sin seed is passed by the father, and that is found in Scripture. Could you please point me to that?
I'm working on some stuff IT said, but I haven't finished, but now I've got more passages to look up (well, once you send them along)

 

[mtordie]

For Christians it's a guide.

A guide for what?

 

[Starman3000m]

I am intrigued by your statement that the sin seed is passed by the father, and that is found in Scripture. Could you please point me to that?
I'm working on some stuff IT said, but I haven't finished, but now I've got more passages to look up (well, once you send them along)

Hi libby,
Here is the scriptural reference (Romans 5:12-20).

I'd be interested in reading the info you are working on - hope you will post it when you finish.

 

[toppick08]

A guide for what?

For your ass.

 

[ItalianScallion]

"It does NOT tell daughters to have sex with their fathers" The Bible surely does. Read below and tell me how you interrupt it?
Genesis
19:32
Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
19:33
And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
19:34
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

19:35
And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
19:36
Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
19:37
And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
19:38
And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

I'll tell you again how I "INTERRUPT" it.??? It is telling a story that happened long ago. YOU show me where/how you think that God is telling us to do this today. There is NO way to mis-"interrupt" this story my friend.

 

[PsyOps]

A guide for what?

Life.

 

[Xaquin44]

he was Fully God and Fully Man.

that would be pretty much impossible.

You could say he was god posing as man, but if he was mortal then he wasn't 'god' as god is, almost by definition, not mortal.

 

[PsyOps]

that would be pretty much impossible.

Not for God.

You could say he was god posing as man, but if he was mortal then he wasn't 'god' as god is, almost by definition, not mortal.

Mortality is only seen through the eyes of humans. God (if it were His will) could make any of us immortal in the flesh or in the spirit.

 

[Marie]

I am intrigued by your statement that the sin seed is passed by the father, and that is found in Scripture. Could you please point me to that?
I'm working on some stuff IT said, but I haven't finished, but now I've got more passages to look up (well, once you send them along)

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--

John 3:5-7
All have been born of flesh into a corruptible body (1 Corinthians 15:1We are born of corruptible seed inherited from our parents – which goes back to Adam Throughout the ages there has been the passing on of this corruption through the genes.


Job 14:15[/U] (Also Job 25:4
What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous” “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.”

1 Peter 1: 18-19
Christ’s blood is not corruptible. It was not affected or decayed by the corrupting influence of sin – his blood could not be defiled by the inherent nature of the sinful Adamic bloodline.

1 Peter 1:19 1Pe 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

John 1:1-14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth”

He was the “only begotten” = “only born”, i.e. not born of the adamic bloodline
He was the “Word made flesh” = 1 Peter 1:23 – the incorruptible seed of the word of God contains in it everything necessary to be ‘made flesh’.
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot“…but with precious blood, as of a faultless and pure lamb, the blood of Christ;” (World English Bible)

Rom 5:17
For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
Rom 5:19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

 

[Starman3000m]

that would be pretty much impossible.

You could say he was god posing as man, but if he was mortal then he wasn't 'god' as god is, almost by definition, not mortal.

Hi Xaquin,
A mere "mortal man" could not have done the supernatural miracles attributed to Yeshua in the New Testament accounts - and a mere "mortal man" could not have been killed/crucified in the manner that Yeshua was and then resurrect from the dead. Yeshua is immortal and alive today.

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. (John 10:14-18)

 

[Marie]

Christ could have been alive 2000 years ago and preached the gospel of a god of some sort. But since he has been dead for some 2000 years he is nothing more then imaginary now.

So because American gained her independance in 1776 She could or could not be independant, because it happended 232 years ago, so its not reality?

You cant say Christ didnt exsist, because its recorded in history.
If you want to debate his deity thats differnt.
Also science has stated that its possible for a virgin to give birth.
If you throw out history, we have nothing to debate but if you look at history including other sources outside of the Bible you will see not only did he walk the earth but that Numerous people (not one or two) whitnessed the mircles.

How do you explain 12 men+ willing to die for there faith, after there leader had been gone more than 27 years. What would we be the point? Or 47 years latter when the last was Martyred?
Surley one would have perserved himself.
How do you explain someone like Paul that hated Christians willing to preach the message to the Jews that wanted to kill him for it, and then the Gentiles.
Remembering that Paul was raised a Jew and taught by Gamaliel, the leading authority in the Sanhedrin ?

Dont feel you need to answers these, but their good food for thought.
Why are people willing to die today to spread Christianiny or refuse to recant their faith under the penality of death?

Its better to face mans wrath once, than to have to face a Holy Gods.

I serve a risen Saviour,
He's in the world today;
I know that He is living,
Whatever men may say;
I see His hand of mercy,
I hear His voice of cheer,
And just the time I need Him
He's always near.

He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives
today!

He walks with me and He talks with me
Along life's narrow way.
He lives, He live, salvation to impart!
You ask me how I know He lives:
He lives within my heart.

 

[Starman3000m]

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--

John 3:5-7
All have been born of flesh into a corruptible body (1 Corinthians 15:1We are born of corruptible seed inherited from our parents – which goes back to Adam Throughout the ages there has been the passing on of this corruption through the genes.


Job 14:15[/U] (Also Job 25:4
What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous” “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.”

1 Peter 1: 18-19
Christ’s blood is not corruptible. It was not affected or decayed by the corrupting influence of sin – his blood could not be defiled by the inherent nature of the sinful Adamic bloodline.

1 Peter 1:19 1Pe 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

John 1:1-14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth”

He was the “only begotten” = “only born”, i.e. not born of the adamic bloodline
He was the “Word made flesh” = 1 Peter 1:23 – the incorruptible seed of the word of God contains in it everything necessary to be ‘made flesh’.
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot“…but with precious blood, as of a faultless and pure lamb, the blood of Christ;” (World English Bible)

Rom 5:17
For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
Rom 5:19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

Great job Marie! Indeed Yeshua was the Lamb of God and is now our High Priest and Mediator:

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:15)

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (Hebrews 9:28)

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
(1 Timothy 2:5-6)

 

[libby]

Hi IT,
Okay, “the Bible doesn’t say” that Jesus got His Humanity from His mother?? What about Gn 3:15?? It is written that there will be total enmity between Satan and “the woman”, and between your offspring/seed and hers. Now to my way of thinking “total enmity” means “total enmity”, especially when prophesied by God. So, what is “total enmity”? Well, between Christ and Satan, I would say that it means that neither of them co-operates with the other, for good (in Jesus’ case) or for sin (in Satan’s case). This is certainly supportive of the doctrine that Christ was free of any/all sin. What I’d like to note is that the passage also states that the enmity would be between Satan and “the woman”. Again, total enmity meaning that Satan never had dominion over that woman, Mary, for even a moment. Now, being that she was merely a human, that had to be only by the Grace of God, and that is what I believe.
Now we are all familiar with Isa 7:14, “the virgin shall be with child…and shall call Him Immanuel.”
What about Elizabeth’s statement in Luke 1:41 “and Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit cried out, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”
This is not just Elizabeth’s mis-interpretation of the events, it is inspired revelation.
That’s about enough to start on the matter.
I’m surprised that you would say that there is inferred meaning in any of the Bible passages. Teachings of the Catholic Church are systematically condemned for being borne out of inference.
As for a “sin nature” vs. “original sin”, I see this as splitting hairs. Perhaps some doctrinal issue will arise, but it’s very clear that the consequences are the same for sinless babies as they are for those of us beyond the age of reason, suffering and death. Clarify for me, does a child over that age of reason (let’s say 7 or 8) go to hell if he/she has not accepted Jesus Christ yet?

 

[libby]

Hi libby,
Here is the scriptural reference (Romans 5:12-20).

I'd be interested in reading the info you are working on - hope you will post it when you finish.

Hi Starman,
I'm afraid I'd have to see more than that to accept that the sinful nature is only passed through dad. Seems like a personal interpretion, at best. Yes, it says that through one man sin entered the world, but I hardly see that as a statment suggesting only dad passes that on. Eve began the process of the fall, although Adam effected it. Just as Mary began the process of redemption, although Christ effected it.
I'm not sure how cloning is done, but wouldn't your take on Romans mean that a cloned person has no soul and no "sin nature"? Should I assume a clone would be sinless? An absurd stretch, my example, but a natural progression of your interpretation, I think.

 

[Starman3000m]

Hi Starman,
I'm afraid I'd have to see more than that to accept that the sinful nature is only passed through dad. Seems like a personal interpretion, at best. Yes, it says that through one man sin entered the world, but I hardly see that as a statment suggesting only dad passes that on. Eve began the process of the fall, although Adam effected it. Just as Mary began the process of redemption, although Christ effected it.
I'm not sure how cloning is done, but wouldn't your take on Romans mean that a cloned person has no soul and no "sin nature"? Should I assume a clone would be sinless? An absurd stretch, my example, but a natural progression of your interpretation, I think.

Hi libby,

What we know and understand about Yeshua is not only based on written accounts but on Faith of who He was. If Yeshua inherited any type of sin-seed, as you infer, then His Blood could not have been the Perfect, Unmblemished and Sinless Atonement acceptable unto God for the remission of sin. What the sin-seed of Adam passes along is the inherit mindset to be disobedient to the authority of God. The human nature is a fallen nature and I believe that Yeshua did not have a fallen nature. If indeed Yeshua was God in human form through the Spirit indwelling Yeshua then I really doubt that He would have allowed Himself to be tainted with a fallen nature that was passed along by the curse of Adam's seed.

My Lord and Saviour was perfect, unblemished and spotless without sin of any kind.

BTW: Are you aware that it is also the seed of the human father that determines the gender of a child? A woman's X chromosomes cannot produce the gender but the male's XY do. So not only is sin passed along by the father; so is the determined gender of a child. Interesting?

 

[PsyOps]

The conception, birth and life of Christ is purely spiritual. If God wanted to “POOF!” put the messiah on earth without all the “immaculate conception” and Mary giving birth and all that, HE could have. Discussing the humanity of Christ from any other angle is really kind of pointless to me.

 

[Starman3000m]

The conception, birth and life of Christ is purely spiritual. If God wanted to “POOF!” put the messiah on earth without all the “immaculate conception” and Mary giving birth and all that, HE could have. Discussing the humanity of Christ from any other angle is really kind of pointless to me.

Actually, I don't see the discussion of Yeshua's humanity as "pointless" but as something that indicates how He understands our own humanity. When people hate you and say all manner of evil against you, He understands. He's been there. When people suffer hardship and unjust punishment, He understands that too. He's been there. When people cry from sorrow and laugh with joy, I am sure He totally understands that too. God can relate to us through the humanity of His Son.

BTW: Yeshua had to be a perfect obedient "representative" of mankind in order to have had the unblemished blood that became the acceptable Atonement for the remission of sins. Yeshua had to have had the ability to feel the suffering, pain, emotions, etc. as mankind with the exception that He represented Perfect Love and Divine Truth; something that mankind is incapable of achieving.

That is why Salvation is by the Grace of God and unattainable by our individual efforts or any other way except through Yeshua HaMashiach, The Lamb of God.

 

[Xaquin44]

Not for God.

not true. If he made himself just as man (100%), then he wouldn't be god. Man does not equal god.