The Rapture was taught by early Church Fathers

[Chuckt]

So, tell me Chuckt, what is your answer to this question since you used Job to support your argument that the rich can pass through the gates of Heaven.

It wasn't a bet. There is a secular version of Job where God and Satan exchange a dollar over the bet but no where in the book of Job is such a transaction and you can't find it.

 

[Chuckt]

So you are saying that every Catholic who hears the words of Jesus and believes in God will have everlasting life? So why do you keep castigating them?

The summary is that there are some who come to church for prestige, business contacts, to create their own righteousness, etc. There are people in Church that don't know Jesus as there are people who have never read the Bible. They all aren't trusting in Jesus but their own righteousness.

It is great that if there are people in the Catholic church that believe in Jesus that might go to heaven. "Might" is not something I trust in.


Matthew 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:13 ¶ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[Amused_despair]

It wasn't a bet. There is a secular version of Job where God and Satan exchange a dollar over the bet but no where in the book of Job is such a transaction and you can't find it.

Job 1:6-12

 

[Amused_despair]

The summary is that there are some who come to church for prestige, business contacts, to create their own righteousness, etc. There are people in Church that don't know Jesus as there are people who have never read the Bible. They all aren't trusting in Jesus but their own righteousness.

It is great that if there are people in the Catholic church that believe in Jesus that might go to heaven. "Might" is not something I trust in.


Matthew 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:13 ¶ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

But you are willing to put your lawyer's interpretation of the very words of Jesus when he tells you what he considers important to obey God and to pass through the Gates of Heaven against the possibility of "might".

 

[Chuckt]

But you are willing to put your lawyer's interpretation of the very words of Jesus when he tells you what he considers important to obey God and to pass through the Gates of Heaven against the possibility of "might".

What do you think it means to believe in Jesus?

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

So the devils believe and Catholics might believe. What is the difference in belief between the two?

There is this interesting verse:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

What does it mean to believe? It is the same word "commit" in John 2:24:

John 2:24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

Do the devils commit themselves unto God? No. They left their first estate (Jude 1:6).

So is it good enough to just believe like the demons do or do you have to commit yourself to God?

So then I'm thinking about this verse you quote about you cannot serve God and mammon. The righteousness that you earn or merit is equivalent to wages and Jesus already said you cannot serve God and mammon. And this idea of a human mediator like Mary or the Pope is like you are trying to serve their mammon.

Sow how do I obey Jesus?

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[Radiant1]

I'm not your savior.
Catholicism is just another interpretation.
The Catholic church kept people from reading the Bible...

In what manner did the church keep people from reading the bible? Think long, hard and carefully before you answer this question.

and doesn't stand by the Bible today.

It does not stand by some of your interpretations that's for sure, nor should it. If it did, I would cease to be Catholic.

"What is impossible with man" implies that a rich man going to heaven is impossible so the Catholic story of a gate named the needle in Jerusalem and the passenger having to take all of his belongings off to get the camel down on its knees is impossible with man. The idea of that story is works and according to this verse, it is impossible with man. But possibility with God means that it isn't your works, merit or effort because it is possible with God. In retrospect, it teaches the Catholic doctrine is wrong and that justification by grace alone is salvation.

And this is why people like seekeroftruth feel about you the way they do. http://forums.somd.com/threads/3032...urch-Fathers?p=5576532&viewfull=1#post5576532 By the way, you did know that Catholicism teaches salvation by grace don't you? So, if Catholic doctrine is wrong on this so are you. You really should know what it is you're talking about before you talk about it.

So you are saying that every Catholic who hears the words of Jesus and believes in God will have everlasting life? So why do you keep castigating them?

Good question!

The summary is that there are some who come to church for prestige, business contacts, to create their own righteousness, etc. There are people in Church that don't know Jesus as there are people who have never read the Bible. They all aren't trusting in Jesus but their own righteousness.

You certainly come across as trusting in your own righteousness, and again, this is why people like seekeroftruth feel about you the way they do.

It is great that if there are people in the Catholic church that believe in Jesus that might go to heaven. "Might" is not something I trust in.


Matthew 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:13 ¶ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

You didn't really answer Amused's question. I'm interested in hearing your direct answer.