There is NO SUCH THING as a "Christian Terrorist"

[PsyOps]

OK, so, then, we saw them as 'dirty Japs', our enemy. End of story. No one was screaming 'No fair!' and no one tried to argue Pearl was work place violence or anything other than what it was; an act of war. If we could have defeated Japan by leaving it along and watch it consume itself, we would have. However, they didn't attack us to provoke us. They hoped to make us leave them alone. Fundamentalist Islam NEEDS us to attack them. They collapse into a heap and infighting and the same crap that relegated Islam to minor world status WHEN WE LET IT. Our BEST weapon against them is to get our military out, stop assassinating them and START focusing, as Reagan thought best, on being America and American's. This Churchillian neo con cancer HAS to die off or be stopped. It is destroying us same as it destroyed England.

Japan attacked us because we were cutting off their lifeline: oil. They consider that an act of war. But, apparently unlike you, I believe there are things other countries can do to us that are acts of war and demand a war-like response.

I think you’re not living in reality if you think if we just pull out now they will just leave us alone. I’m afraid it’s too late for that. The part of this is… Americans are really angry now and largely demand something be done about this scourge that’s hitting our soil. Sorry Larry, what you want just isn’t going happen, and it will not glean the results you think it might. We cannot un-swat the hornet’s nest.

 

[Restitution]

So, I presume you now "buy that" and we can end this?

LOL. That's like giving a pillhead a full bottle and asking "So now you will stop taking these.. right?"

 

[This_person]

Words from the Bible have said the same thing! You just choose to pick and choose what version of that bible you want to read and believe. If someone reads and interprets the Old Testament, are they less Christian? No, that would be ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as ignoring the violence in the Bible while trying to claim another religious book has violence.

I don't ignore it :shrug: I put it in context.

If you look at a timeline, and the difference between the OT and the NT, you'll see that what was accepted is not so much anymore. It's really clear. Taking something from the OT and not balancing it from the NT (especially where Jesus, in the NT, provides specific new guidance) would be the cherry-picking, not using the information in context.

I believe I've been arguing that religious extremism should be treated as such regardless of religion. So I'm not sure where you came up with "it is ok to do with respect to Islam, it is NOT ok to do with respect to Christianity"

That came from the idea that it is ok to kill enemies WRT Islam, but it is NOT ok to kill enemies WRT Christianity. YW

You want me to find a Bible verse in the Quran? That's obviously impossible, but as I said, there are instances of peace in the Quran.

60:8-9 are fine provided the Islamist does not feel that the person is attacking them for their religion. Or, rather, it "may" be fine for that reason. However, if the Muslim does not believe things are equitable, it does not apply. Compare to Christianity that puts no limits on loving one's enemies that the enemies must not have harmed the Christian. For Christians, did your enemy fight against you on account of your religion, drive you out from your homes, not been kind to you or dealt equitably with you? SO WHAT, love them anyway.

The Quran also states that there are other religions and those religions and their opinions should be respected.

But, it's okay to kill them anyway, you'll just let God (or, in this case, Allah) sort it out in the end. It kind of allows for that.

Compare that to Christianity, which just says to love your enemy, period.

The Quran also doesn't have the upside of a more recent version that people can point to that somehow makes people ignore the past violence written by the same deity that influenced the New Testament. While also ignoring the fact the the deity didn't change. the same deity the wrote the violence to begin with. The Quran doesn't have a new version that looks past the language that led Christians during the Crusades to believe it was okay to kill the infidels (Jews and Muslims) that didn't believe in God.

The Crusades were not in line with Christian teachings. It may have been people claiming to be Christians doing so, but it was not in line with Christian teachings. See the repeated and accurate and sourced comments about loving your enemies unconditionally. Find me the NT passage where Jesus says, "nah, just kidding" or in any other way contradicts, and I will stand corrected. Note, I'm not asking for something pre-Christian (OT), I'm asking for something post Matthew 5 as presented repeatedly in this (and other) threads.

 

[PsyOps]

The Quran also states that there are other religions and those religions and their opinions should be respected.

I suppose this is what motivates them to behead Christians and drown their children in the sea?

 

[Larry Gude]

Japan attacked us because we were cutting off their lifeline: oil. They consider that an act of war. But, apparently unlike you, I believe there are things other countries can do to us that are acts of war and demand a war-like response.

I think you’re not living in reality if you think if we just pull out now they will just leave us alone. I’m afraid it’s too late for that. The part of this is… Americans are really angry now and largely demand something be done about this scourge that’s hitting our soil. Sorry Larry, what you want just isn’t going happen, and it will not glean the results you think it might. We cannot un-swat the hornet’s nest.

I think Saudi has been at war with us for decades. That we've had two presidents faithful to them is one of the great untold stories of this era.

I think we pull out, we regain our moral high ground. It also would mean we say to Saudi "Next attack, we will kill you in retaliation." Now, what will do we lack, the will to fight in the first place or the will to do the right thing AND have the backbone to defend ourselves?

It is breathtaking to me to watch the lockstep denunciation of Trump's thoughts on Islam by the party that claims to be the defenders of the nation.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

I suppose this is what motivates them to behead Christians and drown their children in the sea?

No, the twisted words and meanings of an ancient book, along with some mental instability, motivates them to do that.

Our presence there helps the brainwashing by "clerics", too.




Again, religion seems to be the underlying factor here. If they were athiests and killed people, they'd be #######s deserving of justice.

But thanks to followers of certain religions that feel they are better than the other, we have discussions like this.

Maybe everyone should be Amish.

 

[Larry Gude]

No, the twisted words and meanings of an ancient book, along with some mental instability, motivates them to do that.

Our presence there helps the brainwashing by "clerics", too.




Again, religion seems to be the underlying factor here. If they were athiests and killed people, they'd be #######s deserving of justice.

But thanks to followers of certain religions that feel they are better than the other, we have discussions like this.

Maybe everyone should be Amish.

There is nothing twisted about ISIS/Al queda/fundamentalist group of your choosing's 'interpretation' of the Quoran. They are spot on and very literal. Fundamentalists Muslims see the West not only as infidels who do not believe in Islam NOR our own faiths. They see us as corrupting of their world, which we are. We see it as liberalizing, or like to, in our pursuit of profit but they see it as an attack.

Islam has faced, for 700 years now, an internal argument, as the fortunes of the faith declined, whether to modernize and whether to Westernize. Most have chose to modernize and forsake Westernization (liberalization) and have done quite well. However, the fundamentalists have seen modernization result in defacto Westernization, a liberalizing that is directly at odds with their book. That's all this is; the old ways vs. the new. When we leave them alone, they argue over whom are the proper heirs of the prophet. When we invade, engage the monarchs and dictators of the region, we give them unity.

We can talk about the relative merits of faith all day long but when we're talking 'terror' and 'radicals' and all this nonsense, we're simply talking about fundamentalism and the survival of their way of life. Think Geronimo and Crazy Horse; losing to modernity and liberalism (albeit at the point of a gun all too often) and that's what we face; people willing to fight and kill and die to try and save what they believe in. Imagine if American Indians had patrons in the federal government and in every state government and the local sheriffs office. In business. Fiance. They'd have been able to carry on the fight to this day.

They didn't. Fundamentalist Muslims do. It's just that simple. :shrug:

 

[rmorse]

That awkward part when Christians ranting about how what was said in the OT doesn't reflect the word of Jesus just made a solid argument as to why homosexuality shouldn't be illegal....

You guys suck. Flip flop your take on the Bible and use it to push your own bass ackward agenda.

 

[This_person]

That awkward part when Christians ranting about how what was said in the OT doesn't reflect the word of Jesus just made a solid argument as to why homosexuality shouldn't be illegal....

You guys suck. Flip flop your take on the Bible and use it to push your own bass ackward agenda.

You think religion should establish United States law?

 

[rmorse]

You think religion should establish United States law?

Not at all, which is why I never understood the push against the legalization of gay marriage.

 

[MMDad]

Here is the philosophical problem...

"Christians" marched onto lands that predominately belonged to Muslims, dropped bombs, and shot their people. We went where we were probably better off not going. How do we Christians justify our actions on land that is considered holy in the minds of Muslims? I am by no means justifying what Muslims are doing; it angers me. But now we can get a sense of what it must have felt like to have us going there and killing their people.

But, it's done now... there's no turning the clock back. I don't give a damn whether Obama and liberals want to recognize this for what it is... We ARE at war and we had better get that in our heads pretty quickly.

Why are people so short sighted to think that this just started in the last couple of decades? Learn your history - this has been going on for 1,000 years. The only things that have changed are our instant access to the news and our arrogance in thinking that we are somehow specially persecuted.

Beirut did not happen because Boosh was going to invade Iraq in the future.

 

[MMDad]

There is nothing twisted about ISIS/Al queda/fundamentalist group of your choosing's 'interpretation' of the Quoran. They are spot on and very literal. Fundamentalists Muslims see the West not only as infidels who do not believe in Islam NOR our own faiths.

And they are no different than those who have a fundamentalist view of the bible and believe that killing abortionists is justified.

 

[Larry Gude]

And they are no different than those who have a fundamentalist view of the bible and believe that killing abortionists is justified.

No different? Not even a little?

 

[BigBlue]

The thing that surprises me is that we have a Muslim in the White House and some people still believe he is some sort of Christian.

I'd like to see things from your point of view but I can't seem to get my head that far up my arss.

 

[PrchJrkr]

I'd like to see things from your point of view but I can't seem to get my head that far up my arss.

Again, no rebuttal, no addition information, no nothing. Insulting for the sake of what?

Do you think obama is Christian, Muslim, or Buddhist?

I think he may be the beast. What say you?

 

[littlelady]

Again, no rebuttal, no addition information, no nothing. Insulting for the sake of what?

Do you think obama is Christian, Muslim, or Buddhist?

I think he may be the beast. What say you?

I have thought about that. I don't know if Barry is the beast in the Biblical sense, but I do know he is not an American patriot. That is a given.

 

[GURPS]

Or, rather, it "may" be fine for that reason. However, if the Muslim does not believe things are equitable, it does not apply.

I have read about the History of Islam, and Old Mo'.


the tone Koran changes in regards to 'people of the book' from the beginning to the end ... as more was 'revealed' to the Prophet
in the early days when Mohammad was trying to garner 'converts' ... it had been 'revealed' Allah was the same God as 'the people of the book'
Christians and Jews looked at what Mo had to say - and basically laughed in his face - rejected him, so off sulking he went, preaching to the Arab tribes gathering converts, when he came back with an Army - there had been new revelations; people had 2 choices Convert or suffer some horrible fate [death, slavery] or have no rights and pay a tax for being allowed to stay.


this 'we are all the same people' is what Islamic apologists and Muslim Liars point to and say 'Religion of Peace' while Fundamentalists are operating on the latter half of the Koran - Convert or Die

 

[Larry Gude]

Do you think obama is Christian, Muslim, or Buddhist?

He's a pretty simple dude if you step back and look at it for what it is; He's a guy with roots in the East and simply is not an America first kinda guy, meaning that the rest of the world will do better if America gives up some stuff. Neither was the last President 'America First'. Objectively, their administration have been identical; 'American can afford to give up more and more to the rest of the world'. Motives? I dunno. Hard to speak for people's hearts. Bush is Churchill, leader of the decline of his nation but not meaning to do so. Simply not wise enough and too glory hungry to see it. Obama, I think, has a more calculated intent, more deliberate.

Results are the same. We'd probably do better to judge people that way, on what they do, and less on what we think is in their hearts and minds. Simpler that way and a damn sight more effective.

 

[PsyOps]

Why are people so short sighted to think that this just started in the last couple of decades? Learn your history - this has been going on for 1,000 years. The only things that have changed are our instant access to the news and our arrogance in thinking that we are somehow specially persecuted.

Beirut did not happen because Boosh was going to invade Iraq in the future.

Well, I'd argue that, although I get your point, the U.S. isn't 1000 years old. For us, the problem is only a few decades old. Your point is taken only to the extent that we fail to recognize who these people are; but your point does not answer to the problem we face and that we had better learn how to deal with it, because it isn't going to just go away if we leave their land and leave them alone.

 

[PsyOps]

And they are no different than those who have a fundamentalist view of the bible and believe that killing abortionists is justified.

There it is again... This is just a blatant lie. Christians do NOT feel killing abortionists is justified. There is no jihad by Christians to kill abortionists. There is no Christian version of ISIS or al Qaeda threatening with terror against abortion doctors to convert to our way of thinking or die. If any of this were true, I assure you abortion clinics would be going up in flames every day. You have a few nutcases that go on their own, claim they are killing abortion doctors in the name of Christ; that's it! This pales in comparison to the likes of al Qaeda and ISIS.