ProximaCentauri
Member
“Yes, we disagree that the Catholic Church is complicit in spreading AIDS. Again, if they are responsible, then you as well for promoting non-fool-proof condom use to people who admit they won't use them anyway.”
Pope Benedict and Catholic clergy were both guilty in telling Africans that ‘condoms actually worsen the spread of AIDS’ and ‘Condoms encourage promiscuity and their usage remains a sin in the eyes of the Church. And there are still Catholic Archbishops in SSA speaking out against the use of condoms as you saw in my lost. You’re right in saying many Africans simply won’t use them for a variety of reasons. BUT, many will use them with proper education of their value in AIDS/HIV prevention. And statistics show, condom usage is continuing to increase in SSA.
“What's interesting to me, is that you insist that Catholics are not going to follow Catholic teaching on abstinence and are going to have sex regardless, but yet those same Catholics somehow and miraculously follow the teaching on birth control.”
Some of the most devout, will try to adhere to Catholic teaching and avoid using contraceptives, but can get themselves infected if they fail with their effort to maintain 100% abstinence. Studies show, those trying to maintain abstinence, are more likely to fail to use contraception when they succumb to human urges and fail to maintain their chastity.
“Also interesting is that you praise Melinda Gates and catholicsforchoice.org for their individual choice, but yet criticize me for laying the spread of AIDS on individual choice. (I'm guessing individual choice is only praise worthy if it's in agreement with you.)”
As you know, Gates and catholicsforchoice.org recognized that the Vatican is taking the wrong approach resulting in more HIV/AIDS deaths, and have stepped in to take an activist stance against official Church dogma. The ‘choice’ for their activism, was a very well thought out and researched one based on data, studies, and the expert opinions of world health organizations. They have made a tough choice to reject the Church’s stance, and put themselves on the line for the greater good of humanity.
For me, this is much different than the ‘choice’ of an African (or anyone for that matter) to have sex or not to have sex; to use contraceptives or not; or to try to adhere to Church doctrine or not. As you know, this ‘choice’ is often made in the heat of the moment without much deliberation. The biological urge to have sex, often overrides cognitive decision making. Studies have shown that people are much more apt to use birth control for 'spontaneous' sex, if they have been educated previously in its importance to prevent HIV/AIDS or unwanted pregnancy.
With no education on their use, poor availability, or with the stigma of the sinfulness of condoms, their use is less likely. Catholic teaching and influence has negatively impacted condom use in all these scenarios for the last 15 years in SSA. But they are losing their doctrinal battle as the world has stepped in.
“You then go as far as to tell me I'm looking at this through a doctrinal lens, which would be hilarious if it weren't so sad because it's actually the contrary. Wth? You have inconsistencies that need to be addressed, and you need to ask yourself why they exist. “
They are only ‘inconsistencies’ by your thinking or my failure to explain things clearly. Hopefully some of my reply on this post will clear some of these ‘inconsistencies’. If not, I tried.
“Truly, I don't care what your beliefs or non-beliefs are; however, if and when I see you publicly make some asinine and grossly misleading statement that you can't even begin to prove, you can bet I'm going to call you out on it.”
Feel free to ‘call me out’. Just realize regarding this particular issue, that I am not going out on a limb with my views here. Nearly all Western European countries and World Health organizations have been very critical (if not outraged) by the actions of the Vatican and have been very steadfast in their criticism of the Church regarding this issue for more than a decade. Western Europe is much more willing to criticize Religion (including direct criticism of the Vatican) than the USA, my opinion. American’s tend to be detached, unless it affects them directly, as was the case with Pedophile Priests.
I will continue to speak out against the crimes against mankind, perpetrated by all religions, not just Catholicism, especially modern day issues like this one.
