Tulsa officer Betty Shelby booked, released on bond

Inkd

Active Member
Has anyone ever seen the Kyle Dinkheller shooting video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOSELcrJ7Kw

This is one of the reasons that police officers do not let suspects go back to a vehicle they exited.

Look at the scenario that the Tulsa officer encountered.

A car is stopped in the middle of the street. Most times if a vehicle breaks down, you can coast it to the shoulder. But, say in this instance he wasn't able to. Most people who have broken down and approached by a cop say straight away that they're broken down. This guy didn't ask for help or say anything about being stranded. According to the deputy and at least one witness, he was heard to have said something along the lines of he was going to blow, or it was going to blow.

De-escalation was attempted by giving verbal commands about what to do, which he refused to follow. Should she have engaged him with a less than lethal weapon, that are not always effective at a shorter distance?

If she had in fact heard him saying something about "it's going to blow" or "I'm going to blow", would she have maybe thought that it's possible he had an explosive device in the vehicle. We did just have a few IED explosions go off in the U.S. not that long ago. Could that have been a factor in her decision to shoot?

Another officer did use a taser, or try to use a taser, at the same time she shot. Does everyone perceive risk the same way? Did she get there before him and assess the situation as a greater risk than the other officer?

Just a little while ago, a West Virginia police officer was fired because he was trying to de-escalate a situation that he thought was a case of suicide by cop. But, the guy did have a gun in his hand, it was found later to be unloaded but the officer didn't know it at the time. As other officers arrived to the scene, the guy with a gun started waving it around and pointing it at the newly arrived officers, which resulted in them killing the man. The officer was fired for putting the other officers at risk. At the moment that guy pointed a gun at the newly arrived officers, he should have shot the man.

Did she see or hear something that would cause her to think the situation was more dangerous than it really was that her fellow officers may not have seen or heard? Were there other people in the vehicle, were there houses around, maybe a school? If the guy was able to get into a car and did have an IED, was he going to drive it to the hospital down the street and detonate it in the parking lot?

Why was he stopped in the middle of the road, why didn't he listen to the officers commands?

These are all questions that none of us know because none of us were there. It's easy to say that someone fvcked up and handled a situation wrong when you have the luxury of watching it after it happened, in the comfort of your home on a computer screen.

I've got $5 that says she walks.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
I've got $5 that says she walks.
I think it's disgusting that she was arrested and charged in the first place.

At what point are we going to stop allowing these ghetto criminals to ruin the lives of our police officers?
 

Restitution

New Member
Hey Gude.... How about you sack up and go put on a badge and police the city for a little while!

Until then... hows about you STFU and stop armchair judging. Aren't you too monumentally busy to be commenting on this anyways?
 

tommyjo

New Member
So Officer Shelby, by taking precautions to protect her own life, is a bad cop?

The guy had any number of chances to not get shot. He chose to threaten a cop, and now he's dead.

How does that make Shelby a bad cop?
When exactly did he threatened the cop(s)? When we her life or the life of others in immediate danger that deadly force was justified?

When does not complying with a police order of stop and lie down give the officer the right to use deadly force?

You sure do live in a binary world. Either the cop was good or bad. Either the perp was a dead criminal or a live innocent civilian. The rest of us live in a much more complicated world in which she could be a wonderful police officer who made a terribly bad decision. The perp could be high on drugs and belligerent as hell...he could have jumped up and down, called her every four letter name in the book while disrespecting the flag and his mother...and none of this was reason for his life to be forfeit.

This individual had taken no action that justified shooting him. He was clearly not listening....but he also made no threatening moves towards the office or any others.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Hey Gude.... How about you sack up and go put on a badge and police the city for a little while!

Until then... hows about you STFU and stop armchair judging. Aren't you too monumentally busy to be commenting on this anyways?

Yeah, that's a good one, too. 'You can't judge in an opinion forum unless and until you've been there!'
So, if I was judged worthy and made it and ####ed up and killed someone, you'd have my back, yeah?

What is it, international no opinions in opinion forums day???
 

Inkd

Active Member
I think it's disgusting that she was arrested and charged in the first place.

At what point are we going to stop allowing these ghetto criminals to ruin the lives of our police officers?
I don't know. What I do know is that there is no amount of money in this world that could ever make it worth it to be a cop today.

Too bad some of the experts here don't go out and volunteer their time and teach classes in Law Enforcement to all these cops that apparently don't know how to do their job.
 

Lurk

Happy Creepy Ass Cracka
I don't know how you can tell from any view that windows were closed. Shelby maintains that the window was down.

Betty Shelby Was Justified In Shooting Terence Crutcher. Here’s Why.
If you watch the videos, Shelby approached the Google's car from the rear and behind the trunk. When the Google reached down (for whatever reason) she was not in a position to see that the window was closed. Despite that idiot lawyer who defended Trayvon Martin, the "window was closed" issue is after the fact. It may explain why one officer opted for a taser.

Shelby ####ed up. No doubt. But she had been dealing with this uncooperative, massive individual for quite a harrowing period of time.
 

tom88

Well-Known Member
Hey Gude.... How about you sack up and go put on a badge and police the city for a little while!

Until then... hows about you STFU and stop armchair judging. Aren't you too monumentally busy to be commenting on this anyways?
While I disagree with Larry's assessment of this incident, I am happy he is at least exercise his critical thinking to see if maybe, just maybe she was wrong. I don't think it should be an automatic that if a cop says they were in fear for their life they then get to use deadly force. That being said, based on what I see I feel she was justified.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
While I disagree with Larry's assessment of this incident, I am happy he is at least exercise his critical thinking to see if maybe, just maybe she was wrong. I don't think it should be an automatic that if a cop says they were in fear for their life they then get to use deadly force. That being said, based on what I see I feel she was justified.
I have ZERO doubt SHE was terrified. Maybe I'm ####ting my pants were I good enough to earn my way to being a cop. Don't know. Doesn't matter. As Tojo said, nothing he did justifies taking his ####ing life. :shrug:
 

tom88

Well-Known Member
When exactly did he threatened the cop(s)? When we her life or the life of others in immediate danger that deadly force was justified?

.
If this guy got back into that SUV; then drove down the highway killing someone, would your mind be changed? He had already driven the wrong way on a major roadway and was going back to the vehicle. It's no different in my mind of a person who has fired shots and is now going back to get the gun.
 

tom88

Well-Known Member
I have ZERO doubt SHE was terrified. Maybe I'm ####ting my pants were I good enough to earn my way to being a cop. Don't know. Doesn't matter. As Tojo said, nothing he did justifies taking his ####ing life. :shrug:
I pose the same question to you. Would you feel the officer should have shot him if he got into the vehicle and killed someone?
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
I pose the same question to you. Would you feel the officer should have shot him if he got into the vehicle and killed someone?
Ah, yes. So, is that the question, we decide to shoot, no shoot in THAT situation based on what might then happen???

I have said MANY times before, and this is why Vrais' "Larry hates cops' nonsense is just that. nonsense, that we, society, expect FAR too much from our cops.

There are all sorts of options that have nothing to do with violence if we allow for it and train for it. Maybe one of the cops races ahead of the dude who seems to be in a stupor and makes sure the keys are gone? Maybe shoot the tires? Put a cruiser in front of his car? One behind? Use the tazers sooner? They used to be allowed to use nets. What about some sort of tranquilizers? Hell, I'm ALL for TWO cops in every cruiser. We gotta give the tools and budgets if we demand so much of them.

You're proposing a situation that was not there. No sudden movements. The guy doesn't even appear to be agitated. Just because he's high on pcp doesn't not equal violent threat. The dude was probably in la la land and gonna just turn on some tunes and fire another bowl up. What he was NOT doing was presenting a threat. :shrug:
 

tom88

Well-Known Member
Ah, yes. So, is that the question, we decide to shoot, no shoot in THAT situation based on what might then happen???

that is what all shoot/no shoots are based on......if we wait for "it" to happen, then we have waited too long.

There are all sorts of options that have nothing to do with violence if we allow for it and train for it. Maybe one of the cops races ahead of the dude who seems to be in a stupor and makes sure the keys are gone? Maybe shoot the tires? Put a cruiser in front of his car? One behind? Use the tazers sooner? They used to be allowed to use nets. What about some sort of tranquilizers? Hell, I'm ALL for TWO cops in every cruiser. We gotta give the tools and budgets if we demand so much of them.

There were more than one cop in this situation. They tried less than lethal and it was not effective.

You're proposing a situation that was not there. No sudden movements. The guy doesn't even appear to be agitated. Just because he's high on pcp doesn't not equal violent threat. The dude was probably in la la land and gonna just turn on some tunes and fire another bowl up. What he was NOT doing was presenting a threat. :shrug:
It was there....He had already done it once........if not what was he reaching for? Shoot the tires????? This isn't Hollywood, this is real life.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Why? He had already driven the wrong way on a major road. What was he going back to his car for?
If he was shooting a gun at passing cars, set it down, and was going back to shoot at them some more, I say she took too LONG to put him down.

It's fine to cast about for a useful analogy to help your point. Just find a useful one to YOUR point, not mine. :shrug:
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
It was there....He had already done it once........if not what was he reaching for? Shoot the tires????? This isn't Hollywood, this is real life.
Look, here's the deal; My position is she ####ed up. Yours is that she did not. Yes? My position is that we place far too many demands on cops and don't provide the resources and training to meet those demands. What's your thoughts on that?

Hell, I've long wanted helo's to be armed, to have authority to shoot DOWN through engines.
 
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