Unwanted Horses

[CountryLady]

This was a topic of discussion at the Maryland Horse Forum.
VERY Passionate subject, but not a lot of solutions presented.
So I am asking for input here.

Proposed discussion:

How do we measure the problem of unwanted horses?

Can we solve the issue in MD?

Are the rescues in the State prepared to handle the number of unwanted horses in the state?

What can be done regarding the lack of options for euthanasia and disposal of equine?

How do zoning and landfill regulations effect disposal?

Are large animal composting businesses a foreseeable disposal alternative?

Any ideas or points of view welcome?



Links on the unwanted horse:

Unwanted Horse Coalition


UnwantedHorses.org

 

[Phyxius]

Here's an idea. People need to stop breeding sub-par quality horses. Just because an animal has reproductive capability does not mean that animal should be bred.

Color should not be a determining factor. Oh, but he/she is my baby and I want another one just like him/her is also not a good reason. There are more than enough average horses out there. Go rescue/buy one.

 

[fredsaid2]

I agree w/ Phy's answer. The world doesn't need another walk-rock-quarter-alosa-who knows what horse. Do your part - stop breeding.

 

[TCF42]

OT, but: Phyxius-- did you get my PM??

 

[Phyxius]

OT, but: Phyxius-- did you get my PM??

Crap! I did, forgot to respond. Sending answer now...They're in South Carolina for the week, but I'll give the cell number.

 

[happyappygirl]

I don't think the onsey-twosey (or even threesy-foursey) back yard bred foals are responsible for the big problem because those people more often than not, work hard to keep or find good homes for their foals - they have too, people won't just buy any 'ole foal, especially in this economy. It's a much bigger picture. Although in dogs/cats my answer would be somewhat different, and would more closely match what Phyx says.

I believe it's a combination of the economy and longevity in horses. A horse can live a long life, even after he's no longer "useful". Then you have a very expensive pasture ornament, especially as they age and what do you do if you're limited to only keeping one horse?

Many big breeding farms have curtailed breeding since they foals just aren't selling and the longer they keep a foal, the more it costs them, so they can't recoup. That reduction in breeding takes time to actually see. You'll see the results of this in 4 or 5 years when the economy recovers and those nice 4/5 y/os aren't being trained for what people want because they weren't born. It will become a sad cycle for a decade.

Let's place blame where it lies. Closing slaughter houses was the dumbest move ever. I truely hope that is reconsidered, along with additional regulations on what goes, how it gets there, and what's done with it once it's there.

 

[Cowgirl]

I don't think the onsey-twosey (or even threesy-foursey) back yard bred foals are responsible for the big problem because those people more often than not, work hard to keep or find good homes for their foals - they have too, people won't just buy any 'ole foal, especially in this economy. It's a much bigger picture. Although in dogs/cats my answer would be somewhat different, and would more closely match what Phyx says.

I disagree. I definitely think the small-time BYBs cause a problem. I think there are way more BY horse breeders than most people realize. I'm not sure I'd agree that most work hard to find good homes. If they're breeding when they aren't really qualified, or breeding animals that don't need to be breeding, I have a hard time believing they'll halter break those horses, vet them, and get hoof care done. It's going to be hard to market horses like those.

I believe it's a combination of the economy and longevity in horses. A horse can live a long life, even after he's no longer "useful". Then you have a very expensive pasture ornament, especially as they age and what do you do if you're limited to only keeping one horse?

Many big breeding farms have curtailed breeding since they foals just aren't selling and the longer they keep a foal, the more it costs them, so they can't recoup. That reduction in breeding takes time to actually see. You'll see the results of this in 4 or 5 years when the economy recovers and those nice 4/5 y/os aren't being trained for what people want because they weren't born. It will become a sad cycle for a decade.

Let's place blame where it lies. Closing slaughter houses was the dumbest move ever. I truely hope that is reconsidered, along with additional regulations on what goes, how it gets there, and what's done with it once it's there.

Closing slaughter had a good bit to do with it, but you have to roll with the punches. People need to stop breeding horses just for the fun of it. If you know there's no slaughter option, you have to change your management.

AND, people need to be responsible for their horses. So what if your horse is no longer useful to you, it's your responsibility. People shouldn't be pawning off their senior or lame horses on other people. Don't blame the economy for that. Blame the owners for that. I'd much rather the horse be put down than be sold at some auction where it'll be shipped across borders where we have no say on how they're treated.

 

[appendixqh]

Oh how quickly this turns into a BYB slaughter thread. First off, I am pro slaughter option. Before you flame me, let me explain. I prefer to see regulated USDA slaughter, with enforced transportation regulation. I don't believe that the government should take away an individuals option to use their own judgement for a humane slaughter of LIVESTOCK. Yes, they are livestock, and the people in France think they taste delicious. A humane slaughter is much more dignified than years of neglect.

Now, personally, I have only sent 1 horse to slaughter in many many years of owning them. That horse was outright dangerous and unpredictable, when she broke the owners son's arm, that was the final straw. Now I have several horses, and while they are livestock, they are also part of the family. So I choose that when the time comes, to euthanize, as I don't want the people of France eating an animal I love. But the last horse we put down was $350 for vet and $350 for disposal!

You want an option...we should be able to euthanize at landfills. Haul in, meet the vet, disposal is taken care of. And I would like the euthanize fee to be closer to $250. Perhaps they could run a monthly euthanization clinic like the one that ran in california...that cost was down to $25 I think.

 

[Cowgirl]

Oh how quickly this turns into a BYB slaughter thread. First off, I am pro slaughter option. Before you flame me, let me explain. I prefer to see regulated USDA slaughter, with enforced transportation regulation. I don't believe that the government should take away an individuals option to use their own judgement for a humane slaughter of LIVESTOCK. Yes, they are livestock, and the people in France think they taste delicious. A humane slaughter is much more dignified than years of neglect.

I agree with you on the slaughter issue. .


And let's not get BYB and small-time breeder confused.

 

[happyappygirl]

And let's not get BYB and small-time breeder confused.

SUPER point.

And I also agree, the BYBs (perhaps that term needs a definition?) certainly DO cause (major) issues, on an individual, case by case situation, no question. BUT it has become a national problem because of the blanket, knee jerk reaction on the hill, of closing of all slaughter houses.

There could also be more instruction? I'm not sure if that's the word i want to use here, but people need to know (or be taught) how and when to make the decision to Euthanize, and I agree, options have to be more affordable for the act of euthanisia and disposal, but I'm not sure how that would/could happen. I haven't given it that much in depth thought because each of ours means so much to us, and we provide for our own.

I'm also for using large animals to the benefit of others if at all possible, ie: in feeding carnivores at zoos etc. having said that, I would never be able to let that happen to one of mine, plus if it's euthanized the chemicals would preclude it, but the theory is, using one tragedy to help many. I'm an organ donor for that reason.

 

[CountryLady]

Another thing to think about.

Interestingly enough, many of the same folks that were in the "unwanted horse" portion were also in the "zoning, land use and land preservation" portion of the break out forum. It seems that for years horse farms were not deemed to be agricultural. I thought it was very odd that in the forum for "zoning, land use and land preservation" everyone was fighting different levels of government to get their farm zoned agricultural, to get their property taxes lowered to agricultural rate, and so on. But those same folks were flipping out about the thought of animal slaughter.

ARE HORSES AGRICULTRIAL OR NOT!!!!

 

[CountryLady]

Still yet another thing to think about:

Breeds such as Thoroughbred and Quarter Horse industry produce more foals per year than any of the other breeds, with the QH industry in the lead of that race. The TB industry does a pretty good job re-homing their off the track TB’s. What does AQHA do, as an advocate for their own breed to properly place the surplus of QH equine in the industry?

 

[happyappygirl]

I'm not sure why the numeric limits are put on zoning laws for Agri., that almost seems to encourage (require) having more animals than a small breeder may want or be able to manage?

 

[CountryLady]

The other thing is, where do you draw the line:

I know of an acquaintance that bought a very well trained QH. They neglected his teeth for years. When the horse required major dental work, they refused. Instead gave the horse away without informing the new owners of the extent of work needed to be done. The horse was fairly young, (around or less than 12 years). Euthanasia was around $500.00 plus body rendering.

I agree that responsibility is that of the owner.
If you breed for sales, make sure you are able to take care of all resultant horses on the ground.

With the economy like it is, some breeds just aren't selling. People are losing their jobs and are unable to keep their horses regardless of age training, abilities etc...

Some breeders are taking the stance of breeding select mares and studs for prepaid foals. In other words paying for a foal prior to breeding for a guaranteed sale/placement. It seems like a good idea!

 

[BlissfulJumper]

Another thing to think about:
Breeds such as Thoroughbred and Quarter Horse industry produce more foals per year than any of the other breeds, with the QH industry in the lead of that race. The TB industry does a pretty good job re-homing their off the track TB’s. What does AQHA do, as an advocate for their own breed to properly place the surplus of QH equine in the industry?

AQHA has strict guidelines for their registered horses. The unregistered are mostly from BYB. AQHA is also discussing HYPP restrictions so that people can not register a horse with that. AQHA can't not control the unregistered but most of those horses are unregistered for a reason. The AQHA sociey/economy still seems to be booming in a sense because of the fact that the REGISTERED horses are bred to keep the integrity of the breed up and the demand for quality QH is still there, prices might be lower but the demand is still there and people are still willing to pay the price.

For example, my mare was listed at 45k last year, when I looked at her this year her price had decreased drastically, and I was still able to bring the owners down 7k from that price. There is nothing wrong with my mare at all and she is 5 years old and knows her stuff. The QH society is still producing quality horses but breeders/trainers are learning that the prices have to drop.

Also Countrylady, if i do recall, horses were considered agricultural a few years back. We cleared 20 acres back then and they wanted to charges us with clearing with a permit and then my dad told them we were a farm, but we either had to have 5 cows, and i think 2 or 3 three horse( I can't remember exactly) or a combination of animals.

 

[CountryLady]

I'm not sure why the numeric limits are put on zoning laws for Agri., that almost seems to encourage (require) having more animals than a small breeder may want or be able to manage?

One of the things we talked about in the forum was the non uniformity from county to county regarding this and similar types of requirements.

Once deemed agricultural in St. Mary’s you can add buildings such as barns and run-ins without a permit. In many other counties, if you have a four stall barn up already, you may have to pay 5-8k in attorney’s fees to add on two more stalls.

One thing is for sure, from the many counties represented from all over Maryland, JOIN the local Farm Bureau. They can help you weed through the many roadblocks that are out there regarding issues like this. The farm bureau did not always accept horses as being agriculture either. But their tune has changed for the better and they encourage Horsey folks to join.

Maryland Equine Industry is a 8 billion dollar industry. We deserve more support from the government entities out there. WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THIS ALL WENT AWAY??

 

[CountryLady]

AQHA has strict guidelines for their registered horses. The unregistered are mostly from BYB. AQHA is also discussing HYPP restrictions so that people can not register a horse with that. AQHA can't not control the unregistered but most of those horses are unregistered for a reason. The AQHA sociey/economy still seems to be booming in a sense because of the fact that the REGISTERED horses are bred to keep the integrity of the breed up and the demand for quality QH is still there, prices might be lower but the demand is still there and people are still willing to pay the price.

For example, my mare was listed at 45k last year, when I looked at her this year her price had decreased drastically, and I was still able to bring the owners down 7k from that price. There is nothing wrong with my mare at all and she is 5 years old and knows her stuff. The QH society is still producing quality horses but breeders/trainers are learning that the prices have to drop.

Also Countrylady, if i do recall, horses were considered agricultural a few years back. We cleared 20 acres back then and they wanted to charges us with clearing with a permit and then my dad told them we were a farm, but we either had to have 5 cows, and i think 2 or 3 three horse( I can't remember exactly) or a combination of animals.

Many Breeds have strict guidelines for registering horses. I understand that. That was not what my comment was leading too. And people lose registration paperwork and transfer of ownership paperwork more that you think, which leads to a multitude of unregistered horses.

Simply said, if you breed for mass quantity like that of TB and QH industry, the industry should have a plan for all the extra horses that are put on the ground while they are breeding for that one PERFECT horse!

The TB industry does a very good job in placing their off the track TB's. I am a HORSE person, not particularly a TB person, (although I admire their athletic ability).

Having said that, I know of and am very aware of the retraining programs, and rescues that specialize in placing off the track TB's.

I have always been a QH person, and am not aware of ANY out there in support of re-homing the VAST numbers that come from that breed.

It was brought up at the forum by a fairly well know QH person in the Maryland community. What ran through my mind was there must be something out there. I have to date found nothing. I emailed AQHA the very next day posing the same question. NO ANSWER TO DATE. If you know of one, please let me know.


Regarding AGRICULTURAL ZONING, yes just a few years back horses were deemed agricultural, BUT the processes are not automatic, and nothing happens over night.

I am an advocate for this industry. I encourage all, that if you are having specific issues like this, contact the MHIB, extension service, MD Dept of Agriculture, Governor Martin O'Malley, and join the Farm Bureau. Use all the available resources.


We suggested that each county in MD have an expert to help folks through the processes like this. These experts need to KNOW HORSES. It doesn't do the industry any good if we have to argue that fact (that horses are agriculture) to every non-horse person to get pointed in the proper direction.

Also I don't know about you, but I don't have a live in lawyer to interpret all of the statutes or the time to read through all that CRAP. I have horses to train, stalls to muck, pastures to cut, tack to clean, and the list goes on. CAN YOU RELATE!!!!

 

[CountryLady]

Here are some helpful links:

County Land Preservation Resources
County Land Preservation Resources

Maryland Department of Agriculture
Maryland Department of Agriculture

Staff Directory

Secretary of Agriculture
Earl F. Hance (Buddy)
410-841-5880
hanceef@mda.state.md.us

Maryland Horse Industry Board
J. Robert "Rob" Burk, Executive Director
Maryland Department of Agriculture
50 Harry S. Truman Parkway
Annapolis, MD 21401
Phone: 410-841-5822
burkjr@mda.state.md.us

MD Extension service

Maryland Cooperative Extension - Maryland Cooperative Extension

MD Agricultural organizations
Maryland Agriculture Organizations

MD Farm Bureau
Home

 

[CountryLady]

Oh how quickly this turns into a BYB slaughter thread. First off, I am pro slaughter option. Before you flame me, let me explain. I prefer to see regulated USDA slaughter, with enforced transportation regulation. I don't believe that the government should take away an individuals option to use their own judgement for a humane slaughter of LIVESTOCK. Yes, they are livestock, and the people in France think they taste delicious. A humane slaughter is much more dignified than years of neglect.

Now, personally, I have only sent 1 horse to slaughter in many many years of owning them. That horse was outright dangerous and unpredictable, when she broke the owners son's arm, that was the final straw. Now I have several horses, and while they are livestock, they are also part of the family. So I choose that when the time comes, to euthanize, as I don't want the people of France eating an animal I love. But the last horse we put down was $350 for vet and $350 for disposal!

You want an option...we should be able to euthanize at landfills. Haul in, meet the vet, disposal is taken care of. And I would like the euthanize fee to be closer to $250. Perhaps they could run a monthly euthanization clinic like the one that ran in california...that cost was down to $25 I think.

Sooo comercial composting may be an option in the future. And it was an option discussed, .......... But what do you say to little johnnie and little suzie when their mommy or daddy take them on a trip to the dump and they see Mr. Ed on a compost pile?

 

[Cowgirl]

But what do you say to little johnnie and little suzie when their mommy or daddy take them on a trip to the dump and they see Mr. Ed on a compost pile?

They won't see Mr. Ed on a compost pile because in order to compost properly, the horse has to be completely covered. A properly maintained compost pile does not stink, and you do not see the dead animals.