Unwanted Horses

[appendixqh]

Ugh...where to begin Country Lady.

No, the TB "industry" does not do a good job of placing their horses. PRIVATE rescues, people like CANTER, do a good job of helping place the OTTBs that are a by product. Jockey club took one step in the past year to help rescues by offering free tattoo ID. And now some tracks are stepping up to ban trainers that send the failed horses to slaughter.

AQHA does have HYPP registration restrictions, I believe it was in 2007 that you could no longer register an H/H foal. - but that was not your point.

In the Quarter Horse Journal, there was an article recently about a program that has been implemented to help unwanted AQHA horses. Owners and breeders can privately place their name on a list as a forever home for that animal...the personal contact information will be used by AQHA to contact you if a horse you have on your list pops up. You would then have the option to take possession of that horse. If you own an AQHA horse, you can contact them if you want to be done with your horse and see if it is on someones list. They probably aren't returning your call because they recently laid a ton of people off due to significant drops in revenue...and a main source of revenue - registration. Numbers are dropping.

As for the kid at the dump...weak argument. You don't see all the dead deer and other animals that are taken off the side of the highway. And if by chance Johhny sees Mr Ed laying in a pit...perhaps it is a good opportunity for a real life lesson. Dead things just don't dissappear. Or if the kid is real young...then Mr Ed is sleeping in the pit!

JMO

 

[appendixqh]

They won't see Mr. Ed on a compost pile because in order to compost properly, the horse has to be completely covered. A properly maintained compost pile does not stink, and you do not see the dead animals.

Exactly, besides...the dump doesn't exactly have that Fresh Scent anyway!

 

[CountryLady]

Ugh...where to begin Country Lady.

No, the TB "industry" does not do a good job of placing their horses. PRIVATE rescues, people like CANTER, do a good job of helping place the OTTBs that are a by product. Jockey club took one step in the past year to help rescues by offering free tattoo ID. And now some tracks are stepping up to ban trainers that send the failed horses to slaughter.

AQHA does have HYPP registration restrictions, I believe it was in 2007 that you could no longer register an H/H foal. - but that was not your point.

In the Quarter Horse Journal, there was an article recently about a program that has been implemented to help unwanted AQHA horses. Owners and breeders can privately place their name on a list as a forever home for that animal...the personal contact information will be used by AQHA to contact you if a horse you have on your list pops up. You would then have the option to take possession of that horse. If you own an AQHA horse, you can contact them if you want to be done with your horse and see if it is on someones list. They probably aren't returning your call because they recently laid a ton of people off due to significant drops in revenue...and a main source of revenue - registration. Numbers are dropping.

As for the kid at the dump...weak argument. You don't see all the dead deer and other animals that are taken off the side of the highway. And if by chance Johhny sees Mr Ed laying in a pit...perhaps it is a good opportunity for a real life lesson. Dead things just don't dissappear. Or if the kid is real young...then Mr Ed is sleeping in the pit!

JMO

Actually, improvement is needed everywhere, with regard to the unwanted horse.

The Jockey Club would in the past look up the last owner/trainer/breeder of record even before the recent steps this past year of id'ing for rescues. I think that the further step they took was to contact the last person of record to let them know of the status of the animal to offer it back to them.
That is a step in the right direction. Because usually the breeders and trainers usually have the acreage to pasture their off the track TB's.

But also they need to think about helping a potential new buyer/rescues reregister the animal if desired.

Yes CANTER does a great job, as does Re-RUN, Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation, and a ton of others. WHAT ABOUT QH's

Days End Farm Rescue, Freedom Hill Horse Rescue, HoseNet Rescue, are local MD facilities, and help to facilitate a lot of adoptions for a potpourri of breeds.

Kid at the dump issue was not meant for an argument. It is merely looking at a different point of view. There are going to be people throwing a fit to find out there will be composting of horses in the local dump!

I put this question out there for people to think about. It is not productive to attack any one group, large breeders, small breeders the occasional back yard breeder, the problem does not stem from one group. The problem we may be facing is one of unexpected circumstance. Many different circumstances can produce the unwanted horse.
Say for instance you lose your job, in the economy down turn how will you continue to pay for your horse, especially if you are unable to find another job. A lot of people in boarding situations are finding themselves in quite a predicament. Ok, so you think I guess I sell my 45,000.00 horse. To who? In MD we are very fortunate to be surrounded by the lucrative areas such as DC etc.. In southern MD we have Pax River Naval Air Station, Indian Head is not too far, Andrews Air force Base, ..... A lot of folks that make decent money that may lease your beloved horse if you are lucky. Some places/people/horses aren't so lucky.

Some boarding stable across the state are waking up to find a few more horses in their fields than were there the night before. I have a feeling it may become more of a problem that we think.

What I am looking for is some thinking out of the box (stall) if you will.
WHAT PROACTIVE Measures can we take NOW and in the FUTURE to reduce the numbers of the unwanted horse.

We need to look at a lot of different areas.
Can the Breed associations do more to support the unwanted horses of their breed? I think so?

Should individual owners of horses be more accountable? I think so, but where do you draw the line?

Should there be more laws, more fines, more restrictions on breeding?
Should euthanasia be the ONLY way of ending the life of a horse?
Should slaughter houses be brought back? and under what terms?

Do we need better education with regard to Equine ownership?

I hear from many that the cost of euthanasia is prohibited for them. Ranging anywhere from $300-500 plus body rendering.
Should we have a low cost euthanasia clinic? Who is responsible for evaluating the animals to see if their life is beyond useful?

What do you do with the bodies?
Donate the cadaver to science research? Dog-food? Compost? Incinerate?
I realize that horse meat is a delicacy in some European countries. BUT if you worm your horse regularly, and you've read the label, it says plain as day, "NOT TO BE USED IN ANIMALS FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION!"

What are some of the other things that we need to look at???????

 

[CountryLady]

Exactly, besides...the dump doesn't exactly have that Fresh Scent anyway!

TRUE STATEMENT!!!!

 

[CountryLady]

SUPER point.

And I also agree, the BYBs (perhaps that term needs a definition?) certainly DO cause (major) issues, on an individual, case by case situation, no question. BUT it has become a national problem because of the blanket, knee jerk reaction on the hill, of closing of all slaughter houses.

There could also be more instruction? I'm not sure if that's the word i want to use here, but people need to know (or be taught) how and when to make the decision to Euthanize, and I agree, options have to be more affordable for the act of euthanisia and disposal, but I'm not sure how that would/could happen. I haven't given it that much in depth thought because each of ours means so much to us, and we provide for our own.

I'm also for using large animals to the benefit of others if at all possible, ie: in feeding carnivores at zoos etc. having said that, I would never be able to let that happen to one of mine, plus if it's euthanized the chemicals would preclude it, but the theory is, using one tragedy to help many. I'm an organ donor for that reason.

BYB in the dog community is the average pet owner that breeds their dogs?
So the statement being fairly general can include other animals such as cats and horses.

Education, I think, is the big key!!!!

 

[CountryLady]

They won't see Mr. Ed on a compost pile because in order to compost properly, the horse has to be completely covered. A properly maintained compost pile does not stink, and you do not see the dead animals.

I wonder how many tons of dirt it would take to cover 100 horses at the county landfill if an euthanasia clinic was held once or twice a year. Suppose your county was the only county in MD that offered this option.

I think we better all get on the same page soon, don't you?

 

[fredsaid2]

Anyone concerned with the numbers of unwanted horses should take the first step and not breed a horse themselves.

The argument I've read here is BYBs don't significantly add to the problem due to the low number of animals they produce. My argument to that is most BYBs have little to no expertise or experience. They produce low quality animals, in turn selling them to other people of little to no expertise and/or experience. That whole lack of education leads to problems in how to care and maintain the sold horse and what to do when things go south. So yes, BYBs do play a part. Is it only a concern when the numbers are great or doesn't every horse deserve a chance at a decent well cared for life?

There are so many available horses I can't see the rationale in breeding to sell at a 3k or below price point. You could make that re-training horses picked up cheap.

 

[Robin]

Anyone concerned with the numbers of unwanted horses should take the first step and not breed a horse themselves.

The argument I've read here is BYBs don't significantly add to the problem due to the low number of animals they produce. My argument to that is most BYBs have little to no expertise or experience. They produce low quality animals, in turn selling them to other people of little to no expertise and/or experience. That whole lack of education leads to problems in how to care and maintain the sold horse and what to do when things go south. So yes, BYBs do play a part. Is it only a concern when the numbers are great or doesn't every horse deserve a chance at a decent well cared for life?

There are so many available horses I can't see the rationale in breeding to sell at a 3k or below price point. You could make that re-training horses picked up cheap.

not me, my friends, or anyone I know.

everyone I know isn't the problem.

The problem is open your eyes everyone that breeds any animal needs to take part.

Which will never happen, So Country Lady are you asking to government to take part in helping the problem go away or fix it?

 

[Robin]

netposse.com - Stolen Horse International, Inc   Equine Euthanasia

Since when do we make the decision to end a life when the animal has not life threatening illness?

If you breed it and there is not a market for it are you going to put it down?
Just for the hell of the poor market?

How about stop breeding. The well bred horses are usually sold as they hit the ground. They don't float from classified to classified.

Top breeders have inquiries for foals during the mares gestation.

 

[Robin]

Country Lady

Why do you want the county or state to get involved with disposal of the animal? Is that not the responsibility of the owner?

Cremation is another option.

Call College Park. They do it there. You can bury the remains on your property. or spread it on the field.

I think it cost me 400-500 to have it done.

This should be part of the owners package if they want to have the privilege of owning a horse/pony.

 

[Robin]

Have been around for a long time. We are just hearing more about it because there is so many shelters out there getting maxed to capacity. The wonderful recession.

Hormonal women had a big impact with premarin
premarin mares and foals keeping the mare pregnant so these women had the medication needed to adjust hormones. What an impact and problem that was.

New registries for horse breeds need to stop. There was reasons some horses did not get registered. No Quality.

 

[Robin]

Selling a horse at a low value......

Opens the door for folks that really can not afford to really, provide proper care for the horse. Its not cheap. Lowering a price just so you can sell a horse opens that avenue and adds to the problem of in adequate care of an equine.

I guess thats where that saying comes from.

The cheapest Item in all of this was actually purchasing the horse.

 

[CountryLady]

An Excerpt for MHIB:

Maryland equine stables that operate as boarding, sales/breeding, rental, instructional, rescue or training stables are required to have an annual license from the MHIB (review the MHIB General Regulations to see if your stable qualifies). Horse racing (Thoroughbred, and Standardbred breeding, training, or layup stables), and farms using horses for cultivating the soil or herding livestock are exempt from MHIB licensing.

Do you think they need to start enforcing the LAW?

 

[jetmonkey]

Send them to Florida. People are eating them down there.

 

[fredsaid2]

An Excerpt for MHIB:

Maryland equine stables that operate as boarding, sales/breeding, rental, instructional, rescue or training stables are required to have an annual license from the MHIB (review the MHIB General Regulations to see if your stable qualifies). Horse racing (Thoroughbred, and Standardbred breeding, training, or layup stables), and farms using horses for cultivating the soil or herding livestock are exempt from MHIB licensing.

Do you think they need to start enforcing the LAW?

I don't think they have the manpower to enforce the law. And if they did, what would ensuring stables are compliant do for the issue of unwanted horses?

 

[appendixqh]

I don't think the answer to a problem that legislation had a huge hand in creating, is more legislation. And I have to say I am pretty grossed out at the negative environmental impact of all these unslaughtered horses being injected. You talk about chemicals, you cant bury a lethally injected horse within something like 100 or 200 yards of a well without risking contamination to the well! I am even more disgusted with these horses being hauled out of the county to be slaughtered, the methods in Mexico are appalling!

You want a solution, Get a USDA inspected and monitored dry lot / rendering plant. Require the horses be held for 2 weeks if ID'd and 3 weeks if no papers. This incourages keeping the papers with the horses to aid in tracking. This also buys time for detox if you are worried about chemicals like wormers...and during this time offer the rescues and private buyers/owners to come in and ID, purchase any animal they choose at a small profit to the rendering company. Require the slaughter house to maintain a public site with the date each horse is recieved, and post the name, breed, sex, color, and planned rendering date. This humanely disposes of the unwanted horses, and gives a second chance window of opportunity for the horses before they are rendered. It also provides a tracking system to aid people looking for stolen horses, all while creating a profitable export and jobs for our state. Also insist that no horses with open wounds, and horses must be able to walk in and be reasonably comfortable. Any horse with excessive lameness or injury should not be accepted, or it must be euthanized/treated by the tending veteranian at the delivering persons expense. Now you have another way to enforce safe transport.

Just a thought...

 

[CountryLady]

I don't think the answer to a problem that legislation had a huge hand in creating, is more legislation. And I have to say I am pretty grossed out at the negative environmental impact of all these unslaughtered horses being injected. You talk about chemicals, you cant bury a lethally injected horse within something like 100 or 200 yards of a well without risking contamination to the well! I am even more disgusted with these horses being hauled out of the county to be slaughtered, the methods in Mexico are appalling!

You want a solution, Get a USDA inspected and monitored dry lot / rendering plant. Require the horses be held for 2 weeks if ID'd and 3 weeks if no papers. This incourages keeping the papers with the horses to aid in tracking. This also buys time for detox if you are worried about chemicals like wormers...and during this time offer the rescues and private buyers/owners to come in and ID, purchase any animal they choose at a small profit to the rendering company. Require the slaughter house to maintain a public site with the date each horse is recieved, and post the name, breed, sex, color, and planned rendering date. This humanely disposes of the unwanted horses, and gives a second chance window of opportunity for the horses before they are rendered. It also provides a tracking system to aid people looking for stolen horses, all while creating a profitable export and jobs for our state. Also insist that no horses with open wounds, and horses must be able to walk in and be reasonably comfortable. Any horse with excessive lameness or injury should not be accepted, or it must be euthanized/treated by the tending veteranian at the delivering persons expense. Now you have another way to enforce safe transport.

Just a thought...

That's an idea. This is more like the response I was looking for. Not in the exact detail, but it is well thought out, keeping in mind many points of view.
Thanks.

 

[CountryLady]

I don't think they have the manpower to enforce the law. And if they did, what would ensuring stables are compliant do for the issue of unwanted horses?

Man power is a problem. Does anyone know where the money goes that is paid for getting licensed? :shrug:

 

[CountryLady]

So Country Lady are you asking to government to take part in helping the problem go away or fix it?

I think we all need to do our part and help put solutions out there to head off this potentially devastating situation. That includes working with the government to indentify the problems, to find solutions, implement them with out costing the taxpayer an exorbitant amount of money.

 

[CountryLady]

Why do you want the county or state to get involved with disposal of the animal? Is that not the responsibility of the owner?

Cremation is another option.

Call College Park. They do it there. You can bury the remains on your property. or spread it on the field.

I think it cost me 400-500 to have it done.

This should be part of the owners package if they want to have the privilege of owning a horse/pony.

Properly disposed of animal carcasses would behoove us all.
• Composting
• Incinerating /cremation
• Open air burning
• Body rendering
• Burying
They all come with some draw backs.

Coming to a consensus with respect to how to go about it may prove difficult if the general public is not educated.


The MD Dept. of Ag has a state lab in College Park that does have the ability to cremate horses. I think they only use it after they perform a necropsy though. There website with the College Park Lab's contact information is:

Regional Animal Health Diagnostic Laboratories