US Marines killed innocent women and children

[frstabbo]

That's what you did!

Im not one who murdered these people. The marines damaged their own name. do a google news search under marines and you will find over 1000 news carriers carrying the news of the coverup. I wish I could take the blame my friend but I cannot. The sad truth to this is that some innocent marine will probably die because of this.

 

[Mikeinsmd]

Im not one who murdered these people. The marines damaged their own name. do a google news search under marines and you will find over 1000 news carriers carrying the news of the coverup. I wish I could take the blame my friend but I cannot. The sad truth to this is that some innocent marine will probably die because of this.

What's your beef with the Marines Ahole?? Failed bootcamp or never made it in?

I'll guess the latter. Shouldn't you be out protesting at a military funeral or something?

 

[frstabbo]

i guess you never read this post of mine..

Originally Posted by frstabbo
First of all, I would like to apologise to everyone for starting this thread on this day. It was not my intention to insult our proud marines and if I did, I am sorry. I understand 99.99999 percent are professionals and I am very proud of. My only beef was with the VERY few who may have damaged the marines name and may have put other marines lives in danger from retrobutions. That is all I was trying to say here. I know now i chose the wrong day to bring this up. God bless America.

My only beef was with the FEW who may have done this war crime. I am proud of all the rest.

 

[Ken King]

My only beef was with the FEW who may have done this war crime.

You say may but it sounds as if you've already convicted them while the investigation is ongoing.

Here is something to consider. What if some of the insurgents that set off the IED survived the gun battle, saw the Marines go into the homes looking for culprits, and then after they left went in and murdered the occupants.

Until the evidence is examined and the investigation is complete we don't know what happened and truthfully we might never know.

 

[Mikeinsmd]

i guess you never read this post of mine..

Originally Posted by frstabbo
First of all, I would like to apologise to everyone for starting this thread on this day. It was not my intention to insult our proud marines and if I did, I am sorry. I understand 99.99999 percent are professionals and I am very proud of. My only beef was with the VERY few who may have damaged the marines name and may have put other marines lives in danger from retrobutions. That is all I was trying to say here. I know now i chose the wrong day to bring this up. God bless America.

My only beef was with the FEW who may have done this war crime. I am proud of all the rest.

Then you should have shut up and crawled back under your rock. You have an agenda. You come back and post this:

Im not one who murdered these people. The marines damaged their own name. do a google news search under marines and you will find over 1000 news carriers carrying the news of the coverup. I wish I could take the blame my friend but I cannot. The sad truth to this is that some innocent marine will probably die because of this.

Now go drown a kitten jerkoff.

 

[frstabbo]

You say may but it sounds as if you've already convicted them while the investigation is ongoing.

Here is something to consider. What if some of the insurgents that set off the IED survived the gun battle, saw the Marines go into the homes looking for culprits, and then after they left went in and murdered the occupants.

Until the evidence is examined and the investigation is complete we don't know what happened and truthfully we might never know.

I hope this was actually the case, but evidence keeps piling up. We are in damage control my friends. It seems even our british allies are upset.


http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1784622,00.html

 

[Ken King]

I hope this was actually the case, but evidence keeps piling up. We are in damage control my friends. It seems even our british allies are upset.


http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1784622,00.html

Pardon me if I wait for the actual results of the investigation. At that point I am sure we will do the correct thing should it be determined that criminal activity took place.

 

[willie]

I hope this was actually the case, but evidence keeps piling up. We are in damage control my friends. It seems even our british allies are upset.


http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1784622,00.html

You made it quite clear from all eight of your posts that you are anti military and probably pro Sheehan. Most posters on this particular board are going to find your position and maybe even you, disgusting. You probably should crawl back under the rock.

 

[RangerJohn]

Here is an article from the WP ....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/27/AR2006052700846_pf.html

As a veteran and someone who has been in "Indian Country" recently (Al Asad in 2005 and Khandihar 2004), there are stories, both good and bad, that in the media's rush to publish, came out with glaring inaccuracies. The story the URL links to is an example of such a rush to judgement.

Knowing the Marines as an institution, that this story is coming out now, does validate the Corps as an institution of truth and integrity. It is not without its faults, and like any other institution you might care to name, there are a few within who are not completely scrupulous.

Battle requires that human beings perform some supremely inhuman acts and some of these lads were on the 3rd tour of duty in-country. The Marines routinely give their personnel less than a third of the rest and recovery an Army unit gets before heading back. Some of the Marines I knew in Afghanistan were in Iraq within 90 days of leaving Afghanistan! However, that is not an excuse for violating orders. If these Marines violated their Rules of Engagement, I've no doubt that they will be disciplined severely. More severely than say those few police and law-enforcement personnel down in Louisiana who abandoned their posts and joined in the looting. (I went to New Orleans to assist with relief efforts last September, and came away more profoundly troubled and depressed than I had been in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

There are some in our country who forget that the Marines, Sailors, Soldiers, and Airmen that go into harms way are US. They are our brothers (and sisters), Moms and Dad's, Husbands' and Wives.....and they are doing a job that the vast majority of our country are simply not willing to do. The peoples in the countries of Iraq and Afghanistan have had a bad deal and if the United States can't help them, then who can? The French?

 

[vraiblonde]

First of all, I would like to apologise to everyone for starting this thread on this day. It was not my intention to insult our proud marines and if I did, I am sorry. I understand 99.99999 percent are professionals and I am very proud of. My only beef was with the VERY few who may have damaged the marines name and may have put other marines lives in danger from retrobutions. That is all I was trying to say here. I know now i chose the wrong day to bring this up. God bless America.

Would anyone really be surprised if this story were true? Really? Marines aren't God - they're human. Some are good people, some are bad. They get excited and carried away. They get pissed and want revenge. Stuff happens.

Unfortunately, our armed forces need to be very careful because there is a public spotlight on them and so many are just drooling down their chins, waiting for something like this to happen so they can go, "See??? I told you so!"

I hope this story isn't true. And, if it is, I hope they get the maximum punishment for putting ALL Marines in a bad public light and giving ammunition to the Sheehans of the world.

 

[Bustem' Down]

I hope this story isn't true. And, if it is, I hope they get the maximum punishment for putting ALL Marines in a bad public light and giving ammunition to the Sheehans of the world.

That's it? Not for killing innocent people?

I hope it isn't true either. It sucks that stuff like this happens, but as long as there has been war, there has been incidents like this.

 

[vraiblonde]

That's it? Not for killing innocent people?

Honestly?

Define "innocent". Does it mean they had absolutely no knowledge of insurgent activites, nor did they cooperate with them in any way? Or does it simply mean they weren't actively shooting at US troops and planting IEDs at that particular point in time?

It sucks that stuff like this happens, but as long as there has been war, there has been incidents like this.

And if there were MORE incidents like this, wars would be over a lot quicker.

My biggest beef with Bush's handling of the war is that I think he should send troops in there to break things and kill people - decimate the enemy instead of this compassionate warfare and "winning hearts and minds" crap. Get it over with. If you have to lop off a finger or two in the interrogation process, oh well.

If you're going to play, play to win. Less lives lost in the long run - ours AND theirs.

 

[RangerJohn]

Really,

Of course there are those folks who think "Why should poor 3rd world people suffer and die, when there are Americans' who can suffer and die in their place."

Being leader of the Free World is a #####, those without the desire, resources, or ability look with envy (from a safe distance) and take potshots when given the opportunity. But as they say, "Either Lead or get out of my way!"

 

[rack'm]

Yeah, it's a shame women and children are killed during war........

But it happens.................


and I'm sorry the Marines killed them...............it should have been done with a MIRV.

 

[Bustem' Down]

Honestly?

Define "innocent". Does it mean they had absolutely no knowledge of insurgent activites, nor did they cooperate with them in any way? Or does it simply mean they weren't actively shooting at US troops and planting IEDs at that particular point in time?


And if there were MORE incidents like this, wars would be over a lot quicker.

My biggest beef with Bush's handling of the war is that I think he should send troops in there to break things and kill people - decimate the enemy instead of this compassionate warfare and "winning hearts and minds" crap. Get it over with. If you have to lop off a finger or two in the interrogation process, oh well.

If you're going to play, play to win. Less lives lost in the long run - ours AND theirs.

Unarmed civilians are not targets, period, no matter what you think. Going over there and terrorizing the civilian population just gives the insurgency more recruits and would not end the war quicker.

 

[vraiblonde]

Unarmed civilians are not targets, period, no matter what you think.

Say you're over there on a patrol. You get word that a local family is sheltering terrorists in their home. You go kick in their door and there are distinct signs that, yes indeed, they've got themselves a little insurgent hide-out going on.

On top of that, one of your buddies was just blown apart by an IED that intel suggests was placed by one of this family's guests.

What would you do? Say, "Oops, not here anymore. Sorry to have bothered you folks," and left? Would you round 'em up and take 'em to the nearest detention facility?

Let's say you've been doing this for several months and your adrenaline spikes every time you confront one of these families because you don't know if they're going to come out shooting or if they're truly innocent. Let's say it's not unusual for them to wire up their youngster with explosives and send them into a military compound.

NOW what do you do?

I feel that you, Bustem, do not appreciate the stress these guys are operating under.

Going over there and terrorizing the civilian population just gives the insurgency more recruits and would not end the war quicker.

I will suggest to you that if they are harboring the enemy, they are already recruits.

 

[Larry Gude]

Bs...

Unarmed civilians are not targets, period, no matter what you think. Going over there and terrorizing the civilian population just gives the insurgency more recruits and would not end the war quicker.

...so you're a Marine and some BG comes out shooting, only he's got some kid as a human shield. You and you're guys are exposed. It's him or you.

Maybe a BG has run into a house, an orphanage. He's got an armful of RPG's and your buddy's are being evacuated in a couple of trucks that, unknowingly, are driving right past the house. You're in the turret of a Bradley, radio is broke. The first truck goes up in flames and it's obvious the dude is grabbing another.

There's a distinction between wanton murder and open warfare. Yes, there is a line, but civilians can and will be killed in war, for good reasons. If these Marines are proven to have crossed the line, that's one thing, but there is NO, ZERO doubt that US armed forces, far from terrorizing the civilian population, have been bleeding and dying in the effort to be VERY careful to avoid harming civilians and to show ourselves as benign invaders as possible.

The problem is we did not use enough force initially to subdue the entire country. The civilians figure we are temporary. The BG who demands refuge and their silence is gonna be there when we are gone. This is the problem with any conversation of us leaving Iraq at ANY time until AFTER peace is established and maintained for a reasonable time.

Think no civilians are killed in the bombing of the opening phase? Think an artillery round going downrange isn't gonna kill a few kids sometimes?

These troops are operating as soldiers, under specific rules of engagement that put them at risk, day in and day out, tying one or even two hands behind their backs in order to be nice while the left in our nation gives their immediate enemies hope that if they just kill and blow up enough troops, we'll leave. This is Bush's fault and Rumsfeld fault. They are entrusted with the role of leader, policy maker and strategic grand pubahs.

130,000 US soldiers WILL stop the ieds, the suicide bombers and all the rest in a matter of weeks if they are ordered to use the power they have and are trained to use. When enough moms and dads and children are blown to tiny little bits along with the BG's among them, it will stop and peace will come. Ask Germany and Japan how this works.

"War is cruelty. There's no use trying to reform it, the crueler it is the
sooner it will be over."
-William Tecumseh Sherman

 

[Bustem' Down]

Say you're over there on a patrol. You get word that a local family is sheltering terrorists in their home. You go kick in their door and there are distinct signs that, yes indeed, they've got themselves a little insurgent hide-out going on.

On top of that, one of your buddies was just blown apart by an IED that intel suggests was placed by one of this family's guests.

What would you do? Say, "Oops, not here anymore. Sorry to have bothered you folks," and left? Would you round 'em up and take 'em to the nearest detention facility?

Let's say you've been doing this for several months and your adrenaline spikes every time you confront one of these families because you don't know if they're going to come out shooting or if they're truly innocent. Let's say it's not unusual for them to wire up their youngster with explosives and send them into a military compound.

NOW what do you do?

I feel that you, Bustem, do not appreciate the stress these guys are operating under.


I will suggest to you that if they are harboring the enemy, they are already recruits.

You take them into custody, you don't kill them. It's not justifiable. We train that everyday. You can make what if scenarios all the time, but it won't make it right.

 

[vraiblonde]

And one more thing:

By all indications, Middle Eastern "soldiers" do not value their own civilians - so why should we?

 

[Larry Gude]

Ps...

...nothing makes me sicker than training and arming some kid who volunteered to fight for his nation, turn him into the most lethal, best trained, armed and equipped soldier to ever trod this earth and then he is asked, ordered, to stand around with his thumb up his azz and wait to bleed and die, stand there and take just it, instead of killing every thing he sees.

Don't send a solider to do a diplomats job. Don't send a firetruck to put out a cigarette. Don't send a neurosurgeon to put a band aid on a blister.

This is the Marine Corps. Not the Peace Corps.