Volunteerism - CRE style

[hotcoffee]

Hotcoffee...Eney did (with the board/cmm discussion) request not to "reinforce" - you words - the cliff...however the question was the type of reinforcing materials, whether appropriate and the danger of people reentering the cliff area. However, CMM did go back and do this reinforcement anyway because they never heard back from the BOD President.

But all in all, no recoup of legal fees, could just as well be handed the fossil, it is not an entire fossil and of what value will it be? There is confusion, as this had been touted as a means to garner support for the homeowners to get permission/permits to shore up the shore line. But the case isn't heading that way..just a "you dug on our property (now supposedly the boundaries show the property is POACRE,not homeowner owned), needed our permission (whether ARC with homeowner support or POACRE in general), you stole, you caused the cliffs to possibly erode more quickly and/or caused damage to same, and we POACRE want the court to order you NEVER to dig (no "we didn't know) the POACRE clifflines again.

This (all above) will not increase the chance of permission/permit to stablize the cliffs. Certain cost plenty, and piss many off who POACRe and/or homeowners need support from.

See... this is the problem.... It's all confused by poor management, big ego, and lack of communication.....

When all this started [I was in the office at the time], the Marine Museum seemed to be treaspassing and once caught seemed to thumb their noses at us by continuing to work. They came in by boat so they wouldn't be treaspassing [and upsetting POACRE]. The whole time, everyone seemed to be saying the property was owned by the homeowner.

Then [quite conveniently in my opinion] the land along the edge of the cliff miraculously belonged to CRE! So that supported the "theft by taking" claim. [I always thought theft was taking but there must be some other kind of theft... lol]

More handringing and money continued.... and the board allowed the hiring of legal eagles from Virginia... a sizable increase in the legal fees due to the fact those people are from Virginia... because our lawyer was on vacation and this just had to be handled immediately.

The Marine Museum takes these fossils from the cliffs all up and down the coast. They have developed a method to replace the excavated material which make the cliff area stronger. That would, of course, not work for POACRE. It's almost as if Eney wanted the cliffs to collapse, opening the way for a bigger monetary settlement. That's why they never heard from Eney..... in my opinion.....

Now, the Marine Museum has some old bones, the cliff has been restored in the manner they have used successfully in other areas, we have a huge bill to pay, Eney still hasn't gotten his day in court, the cliff dwellers are still meeting to figure out this can work to their advantage, and the rest of us are footing the bill TWICE....

See, if the County has to pay... we pay because we are county residents.... so we pay on both ends....

Unless you live on the cliffs you are in a loose loose situation.

Everyone was so upset when the water company filed suit against the County.... but now Eney has done the same thing and for what?

The truth is.... in my opinion... we should have enjoyed a relationship with the County and now we are just paying a fortune to look ignorant!

Sometimes it's very difficult to admit a mistake....

 

[punchbuggy]

We went to the county for what? To see if permits were pulled? Are they giving us a song and dance on that? Permits should have been pulled from the county to dig. Period. Where permits obtained? That's about all I see they should have been involved in. If there are no permits or other county and state codes were violated for the dig, the homeowner is responsible for the fines and they should be paid to POACRE & the County/State. I'm totally baffled why POACRE is involved in paying for an attorney for a homeowner. There had to have been more digging on the property owners land than on the sliver POACRE owns.........

 

[ladyhawk]

Those were examples. I'm sorry you don't know the difference between Archeology and Paleontology. What you posted is in reference to all things archeological (involving human interaction). Fossils such as the whale are paleontological.

Glad to see such a rude ignorant biatch is helping run CRE, no wonder we are screwed.

Here is one just for you!

You are one of the reasons board members quit coming in here.

You sit back, run your mouth and complain... I guess I need to go back and re-read some of my posts to see when I was ever as rude to someone as you have shown yourself to be... You are also an example of the type of people who are making it more difficult for me to fight for our community forum. You would be one that would be censured or completely booted out just because of your nastiness.

Regardless of people like you, At least I still make an attempt in some capacity to voluteer my time to my community...

June
PS.. I apologize to the others, if you feel like I went too far...

 

[ladyhawk]

See... this is the problem.... It's all confused by poor management, big ego, and lack of communication.....

When all this started [I was in the office at the time], the Marine Museum seemed to be treaspassing and once caught seemed to thumb their noses at us by continuing to work. They came in by boat so they wouldn't be treaspassing [and upsetting POACRE]. The whole time, everyone seemed to be saying the property was owned by the homeowner.

Then [quite conveniently in my opinion] the land along the edge of the cliff miraculously belonged to CRE! So that supported the "theft by taking" claim. [I always thought theft was taking but there must be some other kind of theft... lol]

More handringing and money continued.... and the board allowed the hiring of legal eagles from Virginia... a sizable increase in the legal fees due to the fact those people are from Virginia... because our lawyer was on vacation and this just had to be handled immediately.

The Marine Museum takes these fossils from the cliffs all up and down the coast. They have developed a method to replace the excavated material which make the cliff area stronger. That would, of course, not work for POACRE. It's almost as if Eney wanted the cliffs to collapse, opening the way for a bigger monetary settlement. That's why they never heard from Eney..... in my opinion.....

Now, the Marine Museum has some old bones, the cliff has been restored in the manner they have used successfully in other areas, we have a huge bill to pay, Eney still hasn't gotten his day in court, the cliff dwellers are still meeting to figure out this can work to their advantage, and the rest of us are footing the bill TWICE....

See, if the County has to pay... we pay because we are county residents.... so we pay on both ends....

Unless you live on the cliffs you are in a loose loose situation.

Everyone was so upset when the water company filed suit against the County.... but now Eney has done the same thing and for what?

The truth is.... in my opinion... we should have enjoyed a relationship with the County and now we are just paying a fortune to look ignorant!

Sometimes it's very difficult to admit a mistake....

It appears you have more information right now, than I do!
If nothing else, I have at least have information I can look into myself!
although, I would have preferred in an email! : )

Thanks!
June

 

[GONEFISHIN]

wa.wa.wa

 

[ladyhawk]

wa.wa.wa

LOL that is funny!
Did you miss the fact that I need something to look into?....

June

 

[GONEFISHIN]

I think I'm not the one 'missing the fact' !!
Ever wonder why nothing gets accomplished? (probably not)

 

[ohsnoes]

Here is one just for you!

You are one of the reasons board members quit coming in here.

You sit back, run your mouth and complain... I guess I need to go back and re-read some of my posts to see when I was ever as rude to someone as you have shown yourself to be... You are also an example of the type of people who are making it more difficult for me to fight for our community forum. You would be one that would be censured or completely booted out just because of your nastiness.

Regardless of people like you, At least I still make an attempt in some capacity to voluteer my time to my community...

June
PS.. I apologize to the others, if you feel like I went too far...

I've seen you at a members meeting being completely rude. Standing in the back of the room while members were addressing the BOD. Eney had to ask you to shut your piehole. You are rude. And ineffective to boot.

 

[ladyhawk]

I've seen you at a members meeting being completely rude. Standing in the back of the room while members were addressing the BOD. Eney had to ask you to shut your piehole. You are rude. And ineffective to boot.

Funny, I do remember having a conversation in the back of the room along with quite a few other people. As others in this community have found and seen for themselves, he picks his own targets. And that morning he picked me. Could care less.

What concerns me more is the fact that he is our current President, I'm suppose to be the Vice President.. Even though I have no clue what is going on some of the members asked me to hold Saturdays meeting. I would have not had a problem with committee reports and just hanging out with the members because I find those meetings to be less formal, I enjoy hearing what members have to say and we always seem to have more fun without all the formality. Because I know what the ramifications would have been had I done so, I declined.

As it is, I am not suppose to be in here talking to you. They don't want any of us speaking to you in the forums but I'm still out here trying to communicate and answer questions but then there are people like you that continue to try to provide more entertainment......

Are you that bored in your life that you have nothing better to do than be outright mean to others and hide behind a screen name? You are another one of those reasons POACRE won't let us have our community forum. The members blame the POACRE Board...But what the members really don't know is that every board that has had this discussion decline because they don't want our community members being mean to each other....

We all agree we want the best for our community, we just can't communicate with each other the members because of all the hidden agendas and inuendos. Without proper communications, I don't know how anyone expects for any of us to determine what members really feel is in the best interest for the community as a whole...

I'm starting to get to a point where maybe the community as a whole could care less...

June

 

[slaphappynmd]

I'm starting to get to a point where maybe the community as a whole could care less...

June

It took you this long to realize this? How many people voted in the last election? That is all.

 

[ohsnoes]

Funny, I do remember having a conversation in the back of the room along with quite a few other people. As others in this community have found and seen for themselves, he picks his own targets. And that morning he picked me. Could care less.

What concerns me more is the fact that he is our current President, I'm suppose to be the Vice President.. Even though I have no clue what is going on some of the members asked me to hold Saturdays meeting. I would have not had a problem with committee reports and just hanging out with the members because I find those meetings to be less formal, I enjoy hearing what members have to say and we always seem to have more fun without all the formality. Because I know what the ramifications would have been had I done so, I declined.

As it is, I am not suppose to be in here talking to you. They don't want any of us speaking to you in the forums but I'm still out here trying to communicate and answer questions but then there are people like you that continue to try to provide more entertainment......

Are you that bored in your life that you have nothing better to do than be outright mean to others and hide behind a screen name? You are another one of those reasons POACRE won't let us have our community forum. The members blame the POACRE Board...But what the members really don't know is that every board that has had this discussion decline because they don't want our community members being mean to each other....

We all agree we want the best for our community, we just can't communicate with each other the members because of all the hidden agendas and inuendos. Without proper communications, I don't know how anyone expects for any of us to determine what members really feel is in the best interest for the community as a whole...

I'm starting to get to a point where maybe the community as a whole could care less...

June

So it's everyone else's fault that you are rude? That's rich. If you equate telling the truth as being mean, tough crap.

 

[stsssn]

There is allot of ineffective communication occurring in here. It is just like the meetings. Personal issues cloud judgement.

I agree that the community could care less as a whole. That fact is irrelevant.

Have you heard of the Pareto principle(Pareto principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

It applies! The entire community has never and will never get involved. That is not a POACRE phenomenon. It is a reality of life as a human being. It would be nice to have 20% involvement because that is when things can actually start to happen.

We are close right now. 90% paid the fees last year. even in this economy. We have plenty of members who do care a great deal.

June: The "complainers" will always be out there. It is not a bad thing, they keep people honest. They also have no problems calling out what is perceived to be dishonest, which is sometime more important.

I intend to be part of the 20% that changes to community in a positive way. I do not know what that way is. I think there are quite a few others out there that have no personal agenda or grievances and just want to help move the community forward.

It would be easy if it was a drug dealer or criminal gang. Everyone in the community would agree, that activity is not acceptable in POACRE. Amazingly we do not have significant issues of illegal activity, even with the size of our community. That is a testament to the great members we have. Unfortunately, community solidarity gets less clear as the issues move away from illegal activity.

Some questions as a homeowner I have.

Are we really going broke?
What does that mean for the community?
Are the amenities not being kept up?
What is our plan for upgrades and improvements in the future?
Are property values going to rise?
Does the BOD have a plan to help that occur?
Do we ever plan on paving all the roads?
Is paving cost effective with change in home values?
Do I need to pay more in Fees to realize the property value increase?
Where did the SHUR funds go?
Why do we have an STD that I did not vote for?
Is the STD the right way to raise funds?
Why are we still pursuing multiple litigations at excessive costs?
Who are our politicians, what have they done for the community?
Do we need new ones: BOD, County, State, National?

these issues are opinion based and everyone gives there opinion based on their view of the future of POACRE. We do not have to be on the same page for every issues. We have to respect each other enough to work together on the issues we agree with.

I volunteer and look forward to working with anyone who cares to give some time to the community. There are plenty of great people already doing this.

 

[Jbeckman]

There is allot of ineffective communication occurring in here. It is just like the meetings. Personal issues cloud judgement.

I agree that the community could care less as a whole. That fact is irrelevant.

Have you heard of the Pareto principle(Pareto principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

It applies! The entire community has never and will never get involved. That is not a POACRE phenomenon. It is a reality of life as a human being. It would be nice to have 20% involvement because that is when things can actually start to happen.

We are close right now. 90% paid the fees last year. even in this economy. We have plenty of members who do care a great deal.

June: The "complainers" will always be out there. It is not a bad thing, they keep people honest. They also have no problems calling out what is perceived to be dishonest, which is sometime more important.

I intend to be part of the 20% that changes to community in a positive way. I do not know what that way is. I think there are quite a few others out there that have no personal agenda or grievances and just want to help move the community forward.

It would be easy if it was a drug dealer or criminal gang. Everyone in the community would agree, that activity is not acceptable in POACRE. Amazingly we do not have significant issues of illegal activity, even with the size of our community. That is a testament to the great members we have. Unfortunately, community solidarity gets less clear as the issues move away from illegal activity.

Some questions as a homeowner I have.

Are we really going broke?
What does that mean for the community?
Are the amenities not being kept up?
What is our plan for upgrades and improvements in the future?
Are property values going to rise?
Does the BOD have a plan to help that occur?
Do we ever plan on paving all the roads?
Is paving cost effective with change in home values?
Do I need to pay more in Fees to realize the property value increase?
Where did the SHUR funds go?
Why do we have an STD that I did not vote for?
Is the STD the right way to raise funds?
Why are we still pursuing multiple litigations at excessive costs?
Who are our politicians, what have they done for the community?
Do we need new ones: BOD, County, State, National?

these issues are opinion based and everyone gives there opinion based on their view of the future of POACRE. We do not have to be on the same page for every issues. We have to respect each other enough to work together on the issues we agree with.

I volunteer and look forward to working with anyone who cares to give some time to the community. There are plenty of great people already doing this.

Are we really going broke? Broke is subjective in terms. POACRE owns the common properities and amenities..so until it would be forced to sell to stay afloat...it won't be broke. Is the community "broken" - yes. Is POACRE going broke - probably...especially if we looked long term...see other answers below.
What does that mean for the community? May be forced to sell amenities or "disband" (don't know official term) the association if it were to happen. It may be better to DECIDE A NEW DIRECTION BEFORE THIS IS FORCED.
Are the amenities not being kept up? Just look around. Per discussions in BOD meetings, maintaining is even questioned.
What is our plan for upgrades and improvements in the future? Per discussions at recent BOD meetings, the "priorities" listed by the manager start with the admin building and after the anticipated costs there not much left to even "maintain" at the rate this past year.
Are property values going to rise? Subjective again. The value doesn't have to be based on the association, it could be based on the community/people, crime, schools, shopping districts and other draws other than POACRE
Does the BOD have a plan to help that occur? As has been suggested by some BOD members (an more often by Director Rhodes), it would be best to develop a strategic plan with goals and objectives. This would/could have a significant outcome on home values. It would even be beneficial if the association would encourage the Strategic planning group to get back together and begin monthly presentations, options and discussions, led by the SP group...not BOD to help steer the POACRE and members. Even if the decision is to head in another direction. POACRE BOD is responsible to the cooperation/association, however, being a PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOCIATION owned by the members/homeowners, not a homeowner's association owned by another separate entity...we ALL KNOW THE BENEFIT NEEDS TO BE our home values. But short and simple, no plan...so no plan, can be no goal.
Do we ever plan on paving all the roads? Per many BOD, past and present, management, committee members...highly unlikely. However, homeowners along one roadway could, together, request the county pave and take over their roadway...under a Road Tax District...which could be a fix rate, paid through your taxes, spread over 30 years. However, while an POACRE Association, and STD you would still be obligated to pay the road fees and the STD. But your road could be done.
Is paving cost effective with change in home values? Again, subjective. Consider the better the road, the higher the speed, the less safe for families, walking, biking, and kids playing around same. However, personally, you may feel it paving increase the value.
Do I need to pay more in Fees to realize the property value increase?Everything costs more. The probable lies in many places. How much have other costs risen for families, when income has decreased (for some) or remained fairly constant. It would be a struggle. So would we possible encourage less members to pay at all? I, for one, would greatly appreciate looking into a fee structure (yep, like municipality) where our 'fees" would at least provide a benefit to the association, property value, and an opportunity to take off my taxes...and maybe, eventually, provide more for me, my family and future interested parties to do in the community.
Where did the SHUR funds go? Roads maintenance and other associated costs...at least they should. Would be good to know for sure, so will need to check...it is what the money is for.
Why do we have an STD that I did not vote for?GOOD QUESTION...I question the validity. If you (anyone) were at the meetings/forums as each STD was in the process, there was always more against, then in favor, but done anyway. And there was NEVER a vote of the members to create the STD. There is a case in Frederick/Mo Co where a builder created a homeowners association based on creating a STD when complete...now being fought since the STD needs the homeowners to vote on the creation of same. I understand the need, however, IMO, it was a poor way to proceed, and caused nothing but anger and distrust by the members.
Is the STD the right way to raise funds?See above...but I think not. It is not getting us ahead.
Why are we still pursuing multiple litigations at excessive costs?YEP. IMO...guess the costs (how much) is subjective. If these were my personal funds (which really they are..each of us) I would have done things differently.
Who are our politicians, what have they done for the community?Promises, requesting you vote. Clark, Shaw. A voice, backed by votes (or votes against) needs to be established.
Do we need new ones: BOD, County, State, National? Yep, at least BOD, and county...IMO. But, IMO, we need to look at another direction and options.

Feels like the Titanic and we are just moving furniture...and sinking..but very slowly.

Again, priorities for expenditures have been submitted for this year, and the admin building (multiple items) will most likely take up most of the funds prior to anything else, except costs of litigations.

 

[Baywatchv8]

May I say that was the biggest waist of typing I have read in a long time, the (answers) you gave said little to nothing. Why did you waist my time like that?

Are we really going broke? Broke is subjective in terms. POACRE owns the common properities and amenities..so until it would be forced to sell to stay afloat...it won't be broke. Is the community "broken" - yes. Is POACRE going broke - probably...especially if we looked long term...see other answers below.
What does that mean for the community? May be forced to sell amenities or "disband" (don't know official term) the association if it were to happen. It may be better to DECIDE A NEW DIRECTION BEFORE THIS IS FORCED.
Are the amenities not being kept up? Just look around. Per discussions in BOD meetings, maintaining is even questioned.
What is our plan for upgrades and improvements in the future? Per discussions at recent BOD meetings, the "priorities" listed by the manager start with the admin building and after the anticipated costs there not much left to even "maintain" at the rate this past year.
Are property values going to rise? Subjective again. The value doesn't have to be based on the association, it could be based on the community/people, crime, schools, shopping districts and other draws other than POACRE
Does the BOD have a plan to help that occur? As has been suggested by some BOD members (an more often by Director Rhodes), it would be best to develop a strategic plan with goals and objectives. This would/could have a significant outcome on home values. It would even be beneficial if the association would encourage the Strategic planning group to get back together and begin monthly presentations, options and discussions, led by the SP group...not BOD to help steer the POACRE and members. Even if the decision is to head in another direction. POACRE BOD is responsible to the cooperation/association, however, being a PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOCIATION owned by the members/homeowners, not a homeowner's association owned by another separate entity...we ALL KNOW THE BENEFIT NEEDS TO BE our home values. But short and simple, no plan...so no plan, can be no goal.
Do we ever plan on paving all the roads? Per many BOD, past and present, management, committee members...highly unlikely. However, homeowners along one roadway could, together, request the county pave and take over their roadway...under a Road Tax District...which could be a fix rate, paid through your taxes, spread over 30 years. However, while an POACRE Association, and STD you would still be obligated to pay the road fees and the STD. But your road could be done.
Is paving cost effective with change in home values? Again, subjective. Consider the better the road, the higher the speed, the less safe for families, walking, biking, and kids playing around same. However, personally, you may feel it paving increase the value.
Do I need to pay more in Fees to realize the property value increase?Everything costs more. The probable lies in many places. How much have other costs risen for families, when income has decreased (for some) or remained fairly constant. It would be a struggle. So would we possible encourage less members to pay at all? I, for one, would greatly appreciate looking into a fee structure (yep, like municipality) where our 'fees" would at least provide a benefit to the association, property value, and an opportunity to take off my taxes...and maybe, eventually, provide more for me, my family and future interested parties to do in the community.
Where did the SHUR funds go? Roads maintenance and other associated costs...at least they should. Would be good to know for sure, so will need to check...it is what the money is for.
Why do we have an STD that I did not vote for?GOOD QUESTION...I question the validity. If you (anyone) were at the meetings/forums as each STD was in the process, there was always more against, then in favor, but done anyway. And there was NEVER a vote of the members to create the STD. There is a case in Frederick/Mo Co where a builder created a homeowners association based on creating a STD when complete...now being fought since the STD needs the homeowners to vote on the creation of same. I understand the need, however, IMO, it was a poor way to proceed, and caused nothing but anger and distrust by the members.
Is the STD the right way to raise funds?See above...but I think not. It is not getting us ahead.
Why are we still pursuing multiple litigations at excessive costs?YEP. IMO...guess the costs (how much) is subjective. If these were my personal funds (which really they are..each of us) I would have done things differently.
Who are our politicians, what have they done for the community?Promises, requesting you vote. Clark, Shaw. A voice, backed by votes (or votes against) needs to be established.
Do we need new ones: BOD, County, State, National? Yep, at least BOD, and county...IMO. But, IMO, we need to look at another direction and options.

Feels like the Titanic and we are just moving furniture...and sinking..but very slowly.

Again, priorities for expenditures have been submitted for this year, and the admin building (multiple items) will most likely take up most of the funds prior to anything else, except costs of litigations.

 

[Jbeckman]

May I say that was the biggest waist of typing I have read in a long time, the (answers) you gave said little to nothing. Why did you waist my time like that?

Sorry to WASTE your time. Please avoid reading my responses in the future.

 

[stsssn]

Jbeckman, I appreciate the answer. I have to agree with Baywatchv8. but, It is not your fault. You do not have the answers that everyone wants to here. No one does. You have your opinion and that was my point with the questions.

We do not speak as a community. No one knows what the community wants. No one is held accountable to even figuring it out.

Politicians should be the ones uniting us. They need our votes. This is not the case for many reasons.

We should unite ourselves. I think we already do in our enclaves. Unfortunately the unity stops there. Only the negative points get broadcast when people finally get feed up.

Thanks anyway

 

[Baywatchv8]

The answers that were given were like all the others I read on here or when CRE forum was open to all residents of the Ranch, from people that didn't necessarily have the answers but tried to sound like they did. For example

“Do we ever plan on paving all the roads? Per many BOD, past and present, management, committee members...highly unlikely. However, homeowners along one roadway could, together, request the county pave and take over their roadway...under a Road Tax District...which could be a fix rate, paid through your taxes, spread over 30 years. However, while an POACRE Association, and STD you would still be obligated to pay the road fees and the STD. But your road could be done.”

This answer gives the impression that the county will pave the street and that the CRE BOD will allow this to happen. I have my doubts that anyone will agree or approve anything like this.

 

[Baywatchv8]

After re-reading my response it did sound a bit on the rude side... I apologize to you but I stand behind my last post. I don't know your standing in the community but they did sound a little too hopeful for it to be a plan that would work!

Sorry to WASTE your time. Please avoid reading my responses in the future.

 

[Jbeckman]

The answers that were given were like all the others I read on here or when CRE forum was open to all residents of the Ranch, from people that didn't necessarily have the answers but tried to sound like they did. For example

“Do we ever plan on paving all the roads? Per many BOD, past and present, management, committee members...highly unlikely. However, homeowners along one roadway could, together, request the county pave and take over their roadway...under a Road Tax District...which could be a fix rate, paid through your taxes, spread over 30 years. However, while an POACRE Association, and STD you would still be obligated to pay the road fees and the STD. But your road could be done.”

This answer gives the impression that the county will pave the street and that the CRE BOD will allow this to happen. I have my doubts that anyone will agree or approve anything like this.

I understand you point. But will and can are 2 different things, which I am sure your realize. My point is that there are other options which could be pursued. And maybe we need to be opened to them instead of shutting out any options.

We are litigating ($70k plus) on the premise that maybe, just maybe, we might get approval (or ability to help our homeowners along the cliff get approval) to shore up the shore line.

I know President Eney found a gentleman who is familiar with shoring up various types of clifflines...and he (this gentleman) is familiar with grant research and writing, but grants are not guaranteed no matter what. And permits aren't either. We are paying him (the expert) as an expert witness, and will need to pay him to research, apply, and decide what is needed to complete the shoring-up. Why not just pay for the research and grant writing. And again, no grants are guaranteed.

Is it anticipated we will get $ from the litigation at the anticipated costs which this expert will say would be necessary to shore up the cliff in that one area? Will this go to the assocaition to pay back these litigation costs, or will it go to the shoring up one homeowner's cliff who we included in our case? It surely won't fix the entire cliff face...nor does it give us permission to do so anyway.

 

[slaphappynmd]

You can't save the CRE cliffs, they are too sandy. It's just not going to happen. Live in your houses with your great view as long as you can. 50 years from now your houses will be on the beach. I wonder who this "expert" is...maybe somebody who will take a check and disappear again, like happened in the past with other situations.