Was Jesus Born With a Bible?
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TheLibertonian
New Member
Except Thomas Jefferson wasn't talking about atheism, he was talking about the thousands of christian denominations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
Why did you bring up Atheism and mass murder? What does that have to do with anything?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
Why did you bring up Atheism and mass murder? What does that have to do with anything?
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Chuckt
Guest
You're all sinful and all people have a sin nature.
The quote assumes that all people who claim to be Christian are Christian but sitting in McDonald's doesn't make me a hamburger anymore than sitting in Church or a Catholic church for that matter, a Christian.
I took Western Civilization and my Yale taught professor said that most sailors left their Christianity behind on the shores when they entered the boats to do their bad deeds elsewhere. If you can leave your Christianity behind, you never were a Christian and in Europe or elsewhere, you are told you are a Christian because you were baptized by your parents. You can't become a Christian because you were baptized. You can't join my church because you have to be born into it. I know that might surprise you because you were taught it no where else.
And then God says that not all people who claim to be Christian are because what you are describing is either a sin nature or a heathen.
Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
You might just find yourself lumped in with those whom you blame.
TheLibertonian
New Member
That didn't really uh..clarify anything for me.
Of course were I a christian I would obviously believe in original sin, that everyone is born with sin and can only resolve that sin through grace and, since I favor the catholic doctrine, good works.
But that's the thing. There are THOUSANDS of denominations, each one claiming theirs is a path to god.
Yours, and yours alone, among all the denominations, among the thousands, and I'm assuming you're not Catholic, so your denomination likely only popped up post protestant reformation, is the one true path to god, and all other are false paths? Is that your contention?
Also blaming who for what?
Of course were I a christian I would obviously believe in original sin, that everyone is born with sin and can only resolve that sin through grace and, since I favor the catholic doctrine, good works.
But that's the thing. There are THOUSANDS of denominations, each one claiming theirs is a path to god.
Yours, and yours alone, among all the denominations, among the thousands, and I'm assuming you're not Catholic, so your denomination likely only popped up post protestant reformation, is the one true path to god, and all other are false paths? Is that your contention?
Also blaming who for what?
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Chuckt
Guest
Good works don't save.
I have part of a book written on James 2:26 'faith without works is dead".
If you sinned once a day, would you be a good person?
360 days times 70 years = 25,200 sins (the Navigators)
So you can have works but your twenty five thousand and two hundred sins look pretty bad with or without your good works.
Still think you deserve to go to heaven by good works? Your sins say something else about you and you are trying to cover your sin with works instead of fig leaves.
TheLibertonian
New Member
Ok, so catholic doctrine says that it is not only through grace that you are saved, but also through living a good life, done by doing good works for other to try and do as Jesus did.
What did ANYTHING you just said have anything to do with that?
Why are we even talking about sin?
I was talking about the fact that the scriptures you keep saying are infalliable were put together by catholic priest several hundred years ago.
What did ANYTHING you just said have anything to do with that?
Why are we even talking about sin?
I was talking about the fact that the scriptures you keep saying are infalliable were put together by catholic priest several hundred years ago.
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Chuckt
Guest
Well, if you are saved through faith plus living a good life then why do you and so many other people wear out and have to die like everybody else if your good works could save you, why can't it save you from the wages of sin which is death? In other words, if works could save you then why can't it save a person from death?
The Sheep and the Goats
…39'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40"The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' 41"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;…
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Chuckt
Guest
Bird Dog,
How many have lived and not died on this earth by doing that? That was my question. You're referencing eternal life and not physical death. If you could pay for sin then why do men and women have to die?
Chuck
Radiant1
Soul Probe
Repeated out of necessity.
Chuck, perhaps you can stop dodging again and address this particular fact. It won't go away no matter how long you pretend it doesn't exist.
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Chuckt
Guest
They were actually ignored by the Church for 1500 years until the Council of Trent.
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Chuckt
Guest
As usual with you.......
Can't answer the question?
Put down the parrot and put on your thinking cap.
TheLibertonian
New Member
Ok. This has gotten both confusing and out of hand. So I'm going to boil it down to two points:
One, the scriptures you keep citing as the INFALLIABLE word of god were decided on by Catholics. Period. The catholic church decided with points were going to get into the bible. THere are books of christian gospel that are not IN the bible. Later on people took away and added some more, but the new testament is flat out the same across the board for catholics and protestants and even the eastern orthodoxy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon
Two, are you saying that grace grants LITERAL eternal life as in you never die? Because last I understood Jesus was not offering an earthly immortality, but rather a spiritual one. Everyone dies. The body withers. Period. That's the natural order of things. Jesus offers spiritual eternity in that you will live forever in the kingdom of heaven. No where is it written that you get to live EARTHLY forever.
Like, I am so utterly confused by your theology. It's so heterodox I can barely recognize it.
One, the scriptures you keep citing as the INFALLIABLE word of god were decided on by Catholics. Period. The catholic church decided with points were going to get into the bible. THere are books of christian gospel that are not IN the bible. Later on people took away and added some more, but the new testament is flat out the same across the board for catholics and protestants and even the eastern orthodoxy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon
Two, are you saying that grace grants LITERAL eternal life as in you never die? Because last I understood Jesus was not offering an earthly immortality, but rather a spiritual one. Everyone dies. The body withers. Period. That's the natural order of things. Jesus offers spiritual eternity in that you will live forever in the kingdom of heaven. No where is it written that you get to live EARTHLY forever.
Like, I am so utterly confused by your theology. It's so heterodox I can barely recognize it.
cheezgrits
Thought pirate
chuckt is nuttier than a Christmas fruitcake.
cheezgrits
Thought pirate
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Chuckt
Guest
Death is separation from God. Catholics that don't get eternal life will still live forever but they are "dead" meaning they will be separated from God. You never stop living because you are made in the image of God and God is not going to stomp out His image but He will make it not worthwhile for those who go to hell.
No where is it written that you get to live earthly forever?
Radiant1
Soul Probe
No hun, Trent only confirmed what had already been in use. The scripture you use was made by the Catholic Church, those very people you deem fallible and likely going to hell. (Whether you believe Catholics followed the scriptures *as you interpret them* isn't relevant to the discussion at hand.) Not to get personal, but your refusal to acknowledge this fact presented to you is quite cowardly. What are you afraid of?
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TheLibertonian
New Member
And your proof that your specific interpretation earns you a place in heaven and that Catholics interpretation doesn't?
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Chuckt
Guest
I just want him to answer the question but answering the question means having to admit that you are wrong:
Sin brought death and no amount of good works can pay for death to go away. And when they face that reality then how do they know their good works will get them into heaven? How do you know if you have done enough? They really can't answer that question because if it could, they could pay for death to go away and it doesn't work that way...
They try to answer that question but it is an assumption and perhaps they are using verses that pertain to a different dispensation of time.