Wear your seatbelts!

[Bay_Kat]

I see this one a lot

 

[bohman]

I said I was learning, right How sharp are training swords?

Well, if you can corner in that, you can corner in anything.

I just normally think of them as the cars that are too ugly to die. I knew a guy at a previous job that had 500K on his Reliant's odometer.

 

[NTNG]

A lot of police officers don't wear seat belts, because thier equipment belt gets hung up on the lab belt or cross strap when they try and get out of the cruiser quickly.

 

[glhs837]

Well, if you can corner in that, you can corner in anything.

I just normally think of them as the cars that are too ugly to die. I knew a guy at a previous job that had 500K on his Reliant's odometer.

It certainly taught me about the limits of grip pretty fast, and what understeer is

 

[rmorse]

This is so ridiculous. I wear my seatbelt every time I go out, but think that the whole "seatbelt law" is absolutely asinine and pointless. I would wear mine with or without a law.

Don't try and tell me that it's for "safety." B.S. If that's what they really cared about, I wouldn't be allowed to ride my motorcycle.

 

[sockgirl77]

This is so ridiculous. I wear my seatbelt every time I go out, but think that the whole "seatbelt law" is absolutely asinine and pointless. I would wear mine with or without a law.

Don't try and tell me that it's for "safety." B.S. If that's what they really cared about, I wouldn't be allowed to ride my motorcycle.

Or they'd install them in school buses.

 

[glhs837]

This is so ridiculous. I wear my seatbelt every time I go out, but think that the whole "seatbelt law" is absolutely asinine and pointless. I would wear mine with or without a law.

Don't try and tell me that it's for "safety." B.S. If that's what they really cared about, I wouldn't be allowed to ride my motorcycle.

Or they'd install them in school buses.

Agreed, you want to be stupid and not wear them, go right ahead. It really is about safety, they dont make money on it, but it's intrusive. Many safety experts would love to ban motorcycles, but the bikes have been around long enough that it's not going to happen.

socki, there have been pushes to do just that, but unlike car crashes, the data to support belts in busses just isnt there. Fatalities that might be prevented in school buses by belts are a silly low number, like less than %1. Heck, the number of kids that die in school buses total is pretty low. Now if they could find a way to make money on it, watch out. Like the upcoming cameras on buses, it's solving a problem that doesnt really hurt many if any.

 

[MMDad]

This is so ridiculous. I wear my seatbelt every time I go out, but think that the whole "seatbelt law" is absolutely asinine and pointless. I would wear mine with or without a law.

Don't try and tell me that it's for "safety." B.S. If that's what they really cared about, I wouldn't be allowed to ride my motorcycle.

I do believe if the only one you are protecting is yourself, then yes the laws are over-reaching. But there are two other factors.

If you are not wearing your belt and are in an accident you can easily be thrown into the windshield or across the car. Now you have no control of the car, and it can turn a minor accident into a major one.

Second is that the taxpayers fund EMS to scrape you up off the road and cops to investigate serious accidents. Extra medeveac flights, more time on scene, more time investigating crashes, etc.

 

[rmorse]

I do believe if the only one you are protecting is yourself, then yes the laws are over-reaching. But there are two other factors.

If you are not wearing your belt and are in an accident you can easily be thrown into the windshield or across the car. Now you have no control of the car, and it can turn a minor accident into a major one.

Second is that the taxpayers fund EMS to scrape you up off the road and cops to investigate serious accidents. Extra medeveac flights, more time on scene, more time investigating crashes, etc.

Right. So ban all cars without larger bolsters, ban motorcycles, ban eating and driving, ban changing your radio station (or listening to music), ban smoking and driving, etc.


I would love to see the amount of major accidents caused by people getting into a minor accident, and then losing control because they weren't wearing a seatbelt.

 

[MMDad]

Right. So ban all cars without larger bolsters, ban motorcycles, ban eating and driving, ban changing your radio station (or listening to music), ban smoking and driving, etc.


I would love to see the amount of major accidents caused by people getting into a minor accident, and then losing control because they weren't wearing a seatbelt.

Don't worry, they are working to ban all those things. Just wait.

 

[rmorse]

Don't worry, they are working to ban all those things. Just wait.

I am a little surprised to see that the people who are against banning things like smoking with children in the car or in public, or hydrogenated oils, or oversized sodas are A-OK with this.


Ah well.

 

[glhs837]

Right. So ban all cars without larger bolsters, ban motorcycles, ban eating and driving, ban changing your radio station (or listening to music), ban smoking and driving, etc.


I would love to see the amount of major accidents caused by people getting into a minor accident, and then losing control because they weren't wearing a seatbelt.

I'll bet that number pales beside the number of crashes instigated/exacerbated by people simply not driving to begin with, or who stop driving once the situation leaves the tiny little comfort zone allowed by the sad state of driver training.

You really, really want to reduce traffic fatalities? Teach people how to really drive, not just get the car from A to B under regular conditions.

 

[MMDad]

You really, really want to reduce traffic fatalities? Teach people how to really drive, not just get the car from A to B under regular conditions.

All the teaching in the world will not make them care. Education can only go so far once complacency sets in.

I think we've made everything so safe that people feel bullet proof. They just don't take it seriously.

 

[glhs837]

All the teaching in the world will not make them care. Education can only go so far once complacency sets in.

I think we've made everything so safe that people feel bullet proof. They just don't take it seriously.

But my point is that we dont teach them, the education isn't there to be ignored. CSMs course, arguably the best in the region, while it did more than I expected, still fell far short of where I would like to see it.

Of course people don't take it seriously, even those who have been in crashes quite often have the attitude of "Well, you know, crashes happen, and that's that". The simple idea of learning you and your vehicles limits and being mentally prepared for the unexpected against that day when those are the only things that will make sure you are not in that crash, that thought isn't even broached in drivers ed, and it should be.

I dont mind the extra safety features of my car, life does comes at you fast sometimes, but by god, if it wants me, it's gonna have to pull out all the stops, I aint going down easy. It better be some "Final Destination" type stuff

 

[rmorse]

But my point is that we dont teach them, the education isn't there to be ignored. CSMs course, arguably the best in the region, while it did more than I expected, still fell far short of where I would like to see it.

Of course people don't take it seriously, even those who have been in crashes quite often have the attitude of "Well, you know, crashes happen, and that's that". The simple idea of learning you and your vehicles limits and being mentally prepared for the unexpected against that day when those are the only things that will make sure you are not in that crash, that thought isn't even broached in drivers ed, and it should be.

I dont mind the extra safety features of my car, life does comes at you fast sometimes, but by god, if it wants me, it's gonna have to pull out all the stops, I aint going down easy. It better be some "Final Destination" type stuff

I got in an argument with someone who rides motorcycles, who had that same viewpoint. My view is, there is absolutely zero reason why you should ever get in an accident while on a bike. You are on something that both stops and turns on a freakin' dime. Any reason you hit a car or got hit was your own fault.... you can ALWAYS avoid it.

Of course, they have the idea that "accidents happen, that's why they're called accidents." Bull. They're called "accidents" whether or not they're avoidable, and I have never seen an unavoidable accident short of catastrophic failure of a mechanical part. And even that is arguable, since 9/10 times, the catastrophic failure could have been avoided due to proper maintenance.



Needless to say, my opinion isn't very popular with other people my age (26). I'm also the only one who hasn't had an accident since 16, except for one on a dirt bike at 18. And that one on the dirt bike was what changed my attitude....

 

[rmorse]

I think we've made everything so safe that people feel bullet proof. They just don't take it seriously.

Have you seen some of the stuff Volvo has? It's unreal.... I did a paper on it for one of my MBA courses. They pretty much drive themselves at this point, and are almost 100% accident free.

 

[MMDad]

But my point is that we dont teach them, the education isn't there to be ignored. CSMs course, arguably the best in the region, while it did more than I expected, still fell far short of where I would like to see it.

Look at the causes of most crashes. Have the drivers been taught that their actions are dangerous?

Distraction, too fast for conditions, aggressive driving, drunk driving, drowsy driving, racing. Even mediocre training is enough to let people know what they are doing is unsafe.

Of course, more training could help with equipment failures, debris in the road, or animals, but those are a lot less common.

 

[MMDad]

Have you seen some of the stuff Volvo has? It's unreal.... I did a paper on it for one of my MBA courses. They pretty much drive themselves at this point, and are almost 100% accident free.

A lot like an airplane, but it's just as important for the pilot to be awake when his input is needed.

 

[bohman]

It certainly taught me about the limits of grip pretty fast, and what understeer is

All my cars have taught me about understeer. Still waiting to own one that will teach me oversteer.

Back to the OP - I'm torn about seatbelt & helmet laws. I choose to wear a belt all the time, and would wear a helmet if I owned a bike, and certainly see the financial benefit to society at large by forcing everyone to wear one.

But at some point, we have to start making people responsible for their own safety again. I think it should be law that kids are properly strapped in, but adults need to make their own choices. I think the gov should put resources into making sure everyone knows the danger of not using a belt, after that, you're on your own.

 

[glhs837]

Look at the causes of most crashes. Have the drivers been taught that their actions are dangerous?

Distraction, too fast for conditions, aggressive driving, drunk driving, drowsy driving, racing. Even mediocre training is enough to let people know what they are doing is unsafe.

Of course, more training could help with equipment failures, debris in the road, or animals, but those are a lot less common.

I agree, we have reached the saturation point on behavior education. I am strictly speaking of driving skills to save you after it's gone to hell. Your fault or not, being ready for that time is a thing we don't teach.