Wear your seatbelts!

[RPMDAD]

Not saying seatbelts should be a law, however even locally look how many fatalities are " thrown from the car, where the person who remained in the car survived. I wore my seatbelt most of the time before it even became a law. Not saying they save everyone but they do save some, especially in rollovers where doors fly open or off. Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone's opinion to each their own.

 

[RPMDAD]

I got in an argument with someone who rides motorcycles, who had that same viewpoint. My view is, there is absolutely zero reason why you should ever get in an accident while on a bike. You are on something that both stops and turns on a freakin' dime. Any reason you hit a car or got hit was your own fault.... you can ALWAYS avoid it.

Of course, they have the idea that "accidents happen, that's why they're called accidents." Bull. They're called "accidents" whether or not they're avoidable, and I have never seen an unavoidable accident short of catastrophic failure of a mechanical part. And even that is arguable, since 9/10 times, the catastrophic failure could have been avoided due to proper maintenance.



Needless to say, my opinion isn't very popular with other people my age (26). I'm also the only one who hasn't had an accident since 16, except for one on a dirt bike at 18. And that one on the dirt bike was what changed my attitude....

Have a friend who was in a bike accident, his fault? Was stopped at a red light mutiple lane red light, inattentive car driver coming up the road in another lane who couldn't stop in time decided decided bto swerve at the last second so instead of hitting the car, hit the bike. Couldn't go through the traffic light because of non stop cross traffic. Totaled the bike put him in the hospital for weeks. Curious what part of this accident was his fault, lack of ESP, maybe? He might not have been as good a rider as you are though with only 40 plus years riding including cross country.

 

[Speedy70]

Have you seen some of the stuff Volvo has? It's unreal.... I did a paper on it for one of my MBA courses. They pretty much drive themselves at this point, and are almost 100% accident free.

Subaru now has the option called Eyesight. Mine didn't come with it, but I don't want to test it anyway! Watch the video.
Safety drives Subaru design | Subaru Vehicle Safety

 

[rmorse]

Have a friend who was in a bike accident, his fault? Was stopped at a red light mutiple lane red light, inattentive car driver coming up the road in another lane who couldn't stop in time decided decided bto swerve at the last second so instead of hitting the car, hit the bike. Couldn't go through the traffic light because of non stop cross traffic. Totaled the bike put him in the hospital for weeks. Curious what part of this accident was his fault, lack of ESP, maybe? He might not have been as good a rider as you are though with only 40 plus years riding including cross country.

Sorry to hear about his accident. Do you really want me to say things that he could have done to prevent (or minimize) it? I would imagine not, since you've already made up your mind that it was unavoidable. (Here's a hint, cars are awesome buffers).

I do like your 40 plus years of riding, including cross country comment though. I'm assuming I'm supposed to be shocked and in awe about his amazing prowness on a bike, right?

Don't be so quick to assume I'm a squid at riding. I've been riding dirt bikes, motocross and motorcycles since I could walk.

 

[rmorse]

All my cars have taught me about understeer. Still waiting to own one that will teach me oversteer.

You should drive my car. :-D

 

[glhs837]

Not saying seatbelts should be a law, however even locally look how many fatalities are " thrown from the car, where the person who remained in the car survived. I wore my seatbelt most of the time before it even became a law. Not saying they save everyone but they do save some, especially in rollovers where doors fly open or off. Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone's opinion to each their own.

I think you will find very few people arguing against seat belts. Most folks, myself included, think it should be a personal choice for adults. I think anyone who doesnt use them is an idiot, but thats not against the law. I think insurance should be allowed to not cover injuries cuased or made worse by not wearing a belt, or folks who dont want to wear one could pay a premium to cover increased medical coverage.

Subaru now has the option called Eyesight. Mine didn't come with it, but I don't want to test it anyway! Watch the video.

This looks to be the same system that Mercedes is deploying, I suspect that like stability control systems(ESP/ESC/Stabilitrak), very few OEMS are making these systems, they buy them from makers like Continental-Teves and Bosch.......

So heres a funny. After typing that, I went to the ol Google and typed in "stereo camera safety" and here the hits....

https://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&q=stereo+camera++safety&oq=stereo+camera++safety&gs_l=hp.12...1694.6042.0.7713.21.17.0.4.4.0.252.1552.15j1j1.17.0...0.0.0..1c.1.15.psy-ab.02PZPAeWuDI&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.47244034,d.dmg&fp=e2a79501caf2cd3d&biw=1652&bih=904


first two hits are article about Conti and Bosch. Expect this sort of thing to become the norm as the tech becomes cheaper.

All my cars have taught me about understeer. Still waiting to own one that will teach me oversteer.

.

Chrysler : 300 Series C SRT8 HEMI in Chrysler | eBay Motors


there ya go, this thing will teach you about oversteer

Have a friend who was in a bike accident, his fault? Was stopped at a red light mutiple lane red light, inattentive car driver coming up the road in another lane who couldn't stop in time decided decided bto swerve at the last second so instead of hitting the car, hit the bike. Couldn't go through the traffic light because of non stop cross traffic. Totaled the bike put him in the hospital for weeks. Curious what part of this accident was his fault, lack of ESP, maybe? He might not have been as good a rider as you are though with only 40 plus years riding including cross country.

Keeping a 360 degree threat scan isn't ESP. And is part of what I call advanced techniques, even though it should be taught and emphasized to all drivers. Very few intersections dont have enough room for the biker to get left or right without entering the cross traffic, at least if you are behind the stop line. The other aspect of this story is another "advanced" technique called "choosing the best crash you can get", and it falls on the driver in your story. At it's most basic, and both my teen drivers, the one whose been driving for almost two years now, and the one who gets his permit here in a couple of months know it as the "Sometimes Fluffy has to die" rule.

It's part of that "keep driving til the crash is over" thing. The human brain is capable of amazing feats of time manipulation when not frozen in panic, and using that is the key. Judgement about what crash will be the most survivable balanced against other factors is paramount. Sure, that playground full of kids will slow me down much easier than that garbage truck, but in this case, given those choices, I'm Fluffy. Son saw the Mom of one of his buddies in a convertible yesterday, I mentioned I couldnt recall any of his buddies Moms having a convertible. "She crashed her SUV trying to avoid a cat". Really? That amazes me. I love cats, and dogs too, but damned if I'm crashing any vehicle I own to avoid one. I will go full ABS, and even leave the roadway, but I'm not crashing my car.

 

[RoseRed]

Sorry to hear about his accident. Do you really want me to say things that he could have done to prevent (or minimize) it? I would imagine not, since you've already made up your mind that it was unavoidable. (Here's a hint, cars are awesome buffers).

I do like your 40 plus years of riding, including cross country comment though. I'm assuming I'm supposed to be shocked and in awe about his amazing prowness on a bike, right?

Don't be so quick to assume I'm a squid at riding. I've been riding dirt bikes, motocross and motorcycles since I could walk.

I'd like to hear it.

 

[rmorse]

I'd like to hear it.

Assuming he was hit from behind (correct me if I'm wrong), and assuming he had a car in front of him:


Never stop directly behind cars. Ever. That's the smush-zone. Always stop off to the side of the lane, so you can move up between the cars if you have to.

Always have an escape route (or several) planned. Always. The fact that there was "too many cars in the intersection" for him to move forward means he didn't plan an escape route, let alone multiple routes.

Always have the bike in gear (debateable, depending on how fast your reflexes are). First gear, clutch in, ready to pounce.

Always be watching 360 degrees around you. Pretend you're invisible. Pretend that the car coming up behind you is going to pull into your spot, to get closer to the light. In this case, surprise surprise....it did just that. At a red light, the majority of the danger is coming from behind. Watch your mirrors. Even if cars are stopped behind and around me, I'm still watching to make sure the cars behind THEM are slowing down fast enough. If not, I have zero issue with lane-splitting to get out of the crumple-zone.



Need I continue?


EDIT: At the end of the day, you ride long enough, you will take a hit or eat pavement. However, the worst thing you can do is say "There was nothing I could have done to avoid it." There is ALWAYS something you could have done to avoid it. You're human, you're not perfect. You will get in an accident that you could have avoided if you just did XXXXX. But, as long as you recognize that you could have done XXXXX, you have a much better chance at avoiding that accident in the future. If you sit back and say, "Well, there was nothing I could have done", you're all but guaranteed to have the same thing happen to you in the future, provided you ride long enough.


Answer me this RPMDAD: Does your friend do anything different now, when he's in the exact same situation? Stopped at a red light, cars coming up behind him.... If he does, there's your answer right there....

 

[glhs837]

See, I asssumed he had no car in front of him, based on the "couldn't go forward due to cross traffic". As I noted, still should have had "places to go", a term one of my math teachers used and I love

 

[rmorse]

See, I asssumed he had no car in front of him, based on the "couldn't go forward due to cross traffic". As I noted, still should have had "places to go", a term one of my math teachers used and I love

Ok, so, if there were no cars ahead of him, same rules apply. Except now he has less obstacles to go around to get out of the way. He either didn't have an escape route planned, or was human and missed his escape route. Either way, it (like every accident) was avoidable. Sad that he wasn't able to avoid it, but imperative that he (and everyone who rides) recognizes that it *could* have been avoided. Even if it's a 1-in-10 shot at working, it's still a chance to avoid it.

 

[RoseRed]

Assuming he was hit from behind (correct me if I'm wrong), and assuming he had a car in front of him:


Never stop directly behind cars. Ever. That's the smush-zone. Always stop off to the side of the lane, so you can move up between the cars if you have to.

Always have an escape route (or several) planned. Always. The fact that there was "too many cars in the intersection" for him to move forward means he didn't plan an escape route, let alone multiple routes.

Always have the bike in gear (debateable, depending on how fast your reflexes are). First gear, clutch in, ready to pounce.

Always be watching 360 degrees around you. Pretend you're invisible. Pretend that the car coming up behind you is going to pull into your spot, to get closer to the light. In this case, surprise surprise....it did just that. At a red light, the majority of the danger is coming from behind. Watch your mirrors. Even if cars are stopped behind and around me, I'm still watching to make sure the cars behind THEM are slowing down fast enough. If not, I have zero issue with lane-splitting to get out of the crumple-zone.



Need I continue?


EDIT: At the end of the day, you ride long enough, you will take a hit or eat pavement. However, the worst thing you can do is say "There was nothing I could have done to avoid it." There is ALWAYS something you could have done to avoid it. You're human, you're not perfect. You will get in an accident that you could have avoided if you just did XXXXX. But, as long as you recognize that you could have done XXXXX, you have a much better chance at avoiding that accident in the future. If you sit back and say, "Well, there was nothing I could have done", you're all but guaranteed to have the same thing happen to you in the future, provided you ride long enough.


Answer me this RPMDAD: Does your friend do anything different now, when he's in the exact same situation? Stopped at a red light, cars coming up behind him.... If he does, there's your answer right there....

You sounds like a KnowItAllNolan and would be a drag to be around. JMHO, of course.

 

[rmorse]

You sounds like a KnowItAllNolan and would be a drag to be around. JMHO, of course.

Ok, cool.

That's why I don't bring up my opinion much. Think what you want, IDGAF. For the record, you asked....


EDIT: Ehhh, not worth it.

 

[sockgirl77]

 

[bcp]

It certainly taught me about the limits of grip pretty fast, and what underwear is for

went ahead and took the liberty of fixing that for you.

 

[SamSpade]

If the rationale behind seatbelt laws is that the government is on the hook for your health - somehow - if you don't have one on - doesn't the fact that you're more likely to be KILLED blow that whole argument? Isn't it cheaper for an unbelted to person to be killed than to be seriously injured?

I've never understood why we need to have seatbelt laws.

On another note - I thought I'd heard in the beginning that we were never going to be pulled over JUST for a seatbelt infraction - that it would only ever be applied in addition to some OTHER violation. I guess not.

 

[DEEKAYPEE8569]

Why would they give a rat's ass if you are wearing your seatbelt? Does not wearing one make you more dangerous? more likely to run over small children? oh yeah, thats right..theres a fine attached

What a waste of time.

I bet you couldn't get a straight answer explaining where all that money went either.

 

[DEEKAYPEE8569]

One might think that it's surprising that cars are not made to not start unless all occupants fasten their seatbelts. New cars now have sensors in the seats to enable/disable the passenger airbags, along with a manual switch, so why not a sensor that would sense a butt in the seat and disable the ignition unless all belts were fastened?
Such tech would just raise the price though. /:-\

 

[rmorse]

One might think that it's surprising that cars are not made to not start unless all occupants fasten their seatbelts. New cars now have sensors in the seats to enable/disable the passenger airbags, along with a manual switch, so why not a sensor that would sense a butt in the seat and disable the ignition unless all belts were fastened?
Such tech would just raise the price though. /:-\

Plus a blow-and-go installed in every new car. Can't blow under a .08 (or .05 when they update it) and you can't start your car.

 

[DEEKAYPEE8569]

Plus a blow-and-go installed in every new car. Can't blow under a .08 (or .05 when they update it) and you can't start your car.

Is that something the proverbial they wants to do, or is is being done already?

 

[thurley42]

One might think that it's surprising that cars are not made to not start unless all occupants fasten their seatbelts. New cars now have sensors in the seats to enable/disable the passenger airbags, along with a manual switch, so why not a sensor that would sense a butt in the seat and disable the ignition unless all belts were fastened?
Such tech would just raise the price though. /:-\

Never ceases to amaze me how many of you fall all over yourselves to give up your rights and freedom.