What is Islam?

PJay

Well-Known Member
meelak said:
I can paste hundreds of links of the people who left christianity and accepted other religions and all the bad things they had written and it will not prove anything. It is beyond childishness and utmost stupidity to assume that personal opinion of one person or one group constitute the entire religion. Please grow up!!!

Yes you are right, I knew you'd come back with that but, Christianity isn't the topic for once. If you ever have the time to read the other threads in this part of the forum you will see the Christians get a beating too.

IMHO you need to be more understanding at this point in time with folks on this subject.
 

PJay

Well-Known Member
meelak said:
I cannot speak for all the muslims. But me and my family and all the muslims I have across in this country stay away from anything that has pork and alcohol. Some of the christian colleagues that I work with on the base also don't eat pork. That doesn't make them any less american. Does it??? The christian bible also says pig is a unclean animal and you should not eat. But ask anyone around you what is for dinner and they will say, "the other white meat".

I was curious, that's all. You can eat pork or not, I do not care. The same for Christians.
 

Toxick

Splat
meelak said:
The Jewish bible - what Christians call "The Old Testament" - also says pig is a unclean animal and you should not eat.


meelak said:
By the way, if you are not sure what Jews are allowed or not allowed to eat, read Lev. Chap 11 and Deut. Chap 14 in its entirety.


There ya go. I fixed that all up for you, for accuracy.



Christians are not bound by Old Testament Laws - courtesy of Christ Jesus. We just keep the Old Testament around because we like to read all the nifty prophecies of Jesus which were written way before he was born.




Actually, we just had a long discussion about this very subject a few weeks ago in here.
 
K

Kain99

Guest
Toxick said:
Christians are not bound by Old Testament Laws - courtesy of Christ Jesus. We just keep the Old Testament around because we like to read all the nifty prophecies of Jesus which were written way before he was born.
"The other white book" :lmao:
 

TexasPride77

Eat More Beef, Less Chkn
AliSamana said:
In reality the clergy have very little power in Islam if that. The Clergy cannot guarantee me heaven of hell, cannot even tell me if a certain sin has been forgiven or not. Anyone can lead a prayer (be the Imam) as long as that person has the basic knowledge of Islam.

The clergy may not have political power but they have influencial power and use their "preaching" to twist words of the Quran so their own political views are expressed. If the clergy do not have power to influence Muslims, then why is it that the leaders of services are having the congregations chanting "Death To America"? It is just a shame that the US is not getting direct broadcasts of Iraqi Tv...

Perhaps my understanding of all this is off....i would like you to argue some of the points Glenn Beck has brought to light as well in regards to Islam and the Clergy.... www.glennbeck.com
 

Pushrod

Patriot
Homesick said:
How about that, me too, 1 teaspoon will do.

How about pork chops on the grill? Truly hope you are not turning that noise up before you try them. They are good, I promise.

What kinda veggie do you like?

Sorry Homesick, y'all have to get by with ham sandwhiches, I'm on a budget you know! 1.4 billion, damn, I need more ammo.

kidding aside

They still have not answered the most asked question on this thread yet, as why the religious leaders (clerics) are not standing up in mass and condemning the actions of the terrorist and calling for their heads!?
 

MMDad

Lem Putt
vraiblonde said:
How we doing in here? Everyone playing nicely?
So, have the anti-christians or the anti-muslims converted you yet? Their hate doesn't do anything to make me want to think either of them are right.

Maybe the Buddhists... :whistle:
 

AliSamana

New Member
TexasPride77 said:
The clergy may not have political power but they have influencial power and use their "preaching" to twist words of the Quran so their own political views are expressed. If the clergy do not have power to influence Muslims, then why is it that the leaders of services are having the congregations chanting "Death To America"? It is just a shame that the US is not getting direct broadcasts of Iraqi Tv...

Perhaps my understanding of all this is off....i would like you to argue some of the points Glenn Beck has brought to light as well in regards to Islam and the Clergy.... www.glennbeck.com

You are right in some respect, some people do put too much emphasis on their Imam, however, that is not supposed to be this way. I explained to you what Islam teaches, I obviously cannot explain what every muslim thinks or follows. However, after 9/11 some media

I do watch Glenn Beck, he talks about not spinning yet he is one of the biggest spinners in the media today. Everything he does has a financial motive, if you cannot tell by his show. Right now, he is on lets bash Islam bandwagon, tomorrow it may be mormons.

Lets talk specific points about Islam if you want. Everyone can find a person who is against a rellgion and point out websites. Looking forward to an insighful dscussion.
 

AliSamana

New Member
Pushrod said:
Sorry Homesick, y'all have to get by with ham sandwhiches, I'm on a budget you know! 1.4 billion, damn, I need more ammo.

kidding aside

They still have not answered the most asked question on this thread yet, as why the religious leaders (clerics) are not standing up in mass and condemning the actions of the terrorist and calling for their heads!?

Repost the question...I can't remember what you are talking about.
 

AliSamana

New Member
AliSamana said:
Repost the question...I can't remember what you are talking about.

My bad, just saw that up there :)

Clerics do condemn terrorism in many sermons and prayers, but it is not covered by the media at all. Now, since you do not go to any Muslim prayers and have not heard a cleric talk about Terrorism, I am sure you have not called one for his opinion either, how can you say they don't?
 

TexasPride77

Eat More Beef, Less Chkn
AliSamana said:
I do watch Glenn Beck, he talks about not spinning yet he is one of the biggest spinners in the media today. Everything he does has a financial motive, if you cannot tell by his show. Right now, he is on lets bash Islam bandwagon, tomorrow it may be mormons.


As for as Beck, I agree he does his share of spinning but I dont think he out does anyone. He does have a knack for pointing out things missed (ignored) by the media and how the media circumvents important facts to exploit news.

I also do not believe (as he has made it very clear) that he is against Muslims. The video segments he shows are from Iraqi TV and are of church services....displaying the clergy preaching hate into the congregations. If people are non-clergy and are holding rallies they should not be using God's name to endorse their agenda's. If they do, the clergy should be standing up and making a BIG stink about it. Again, I understand that clergy do not have political power necessarily but it is the clergy that people listen to (especially extremists) and follow instruction.

some people do put too much emphasis on their Imam, however, that is not supposed to be this way.

Muslims should have thick skins and take criticism as it is....not go ape sh!t because someone insulted them. Christians get insulted all the time and you dont see them blowing up themselves/buildings/innocent people. The way that things ARE and the way they are NOT suppose to be are two different things. Reality is a fact! Perception is 9/10ths of the law in the public eye. If Muslims want to end the criticisms then have the clergy grow balls and start standing up for the people. Denounce the terrorists in the same way that terrorists denounce non-Muslim countries. Honestly, a church ran country is just not going to work. Leaders are going to hire their own Imams who are going to twist sacred words to benefit the agendas of the leaders. It happens everywhere...even in America (its just not as prevalent).
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
I am currently reading a For Dummies book about the history of the Middle East. Very interesting stuff.
 

TexasPride77

Eat More Beef, Less Chkn
AliSamana said:
My bad, just saw that up there :)
Clerics do condemn terrorism in many sermons and prayers, but it is not covered by the media at all. Now, since you do not go to any Muslim prayers and have not heard a cleric talk about Terrorism, I am sure you have not called one for his opinion either, how can you say they don't?

What goes on behind closed doors stays behind closed doors. Extremist clergy and terrorists are not behind closed doors. They are out in the open with TV cameras on them. They want to make sure their message is getting out and it does!!

“…how can you say they don't?” Well...because on a grand scale - they dont. The Islamic church needs to unite as one entity and publicly denounce terrorism. Find the extremists....kick them from the Mosques and turn them over to the international police. Until the day comes where Muslims all over the world take a unified stand against terrorism, 911 will defame their good names forever.
 

AliSamana

New Member
TexasPride77 said:
What goes on behind closed doors stays behind closed doors. Extremist clergy and terrorists are not behind closed doors. They are out in the open with TV cameras on them. They want to make sure their message is getting out and it does!!

“…how can you say they don't?” Well...because on a grand scale - they dont. The Islamic church needs to unite as one entity and publicly denounce terrorism. Find the extremists....kick them from the Mosques and turn them over to the international police. Until the day comes where Muslims all over the world take a unified stand against terrorism, 911 will defame their good names forever.

Do you think ratings may have something to do what is covered in the media? Fear sells more newspaper than peace and love.

Muslims also do not know who is a terrorist and who is not. They are secretive from us mainstream muslims as well. I have prayed at many mosques and know many muslims. I don't know of any terrorists, if I did do you think I would think twice about calling the police? you bet not, we are in the same mess that most Americans are in.
 

TexasPride77

Eat More Beef, Less Chkn
AliSamana said:
Do you think ratings may have something to do what is covered in the media? Fear sells more newspaper than peace and love.

Ratings have everything to do with what is covered. Just think how high the ratings would be if all the Grand Ayatolahs arranged a press conference and told the world that they encouraged all Muslims who knew of terrorists to tell the leaders of their Mosques or the local authorities.

My issue is that all the preaching is done behind doors. The Islamic clergy as a whole has not stepped up and attemped to clean up the name of Islam. In fact, I hear that some clergy are supporting terrorists (that’s what I hear). Preaching to the locals is not enough when the religion’s problems are global.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
AliSamana said:
Do you think ratings may have something to do what is covered in the media? Fear sells more newspaper than peace and love.
That is completely true.

I think, by and large, American Muslims are loyal to the US. If anything, they're torn, much the same as Jews in this country.

Foreign Muslims, however, are victims of their ignorance. And the ignorance isn't even their fault because Islamic governments aren't the most supportive of free press and speech. That's is why they have this idea that the US is the Great Satan and out to annihilate the world.

Why do you suppose these countries restrict the internet? Obviously it's to keep their citizens from gaining information. I have sympathy for these people - it's not their fault they've been fed propaganda all their lives. But we can't let that stand in the way of protecting ourselves and our allies.

Israel is a big bugaboo with me. I think we should support them more wholeheartedly. I also think the UN plays a large role in global anti-Semitism, which is one of the reasons I think we should quit them. Yasser Arafat should have been forced to make a deal, instead of treated like some dignitary (as opposed to the terrorist leader he was).

I'm also not a big fan of Arab countries because they're backward as hell, which is their business, but I don't want my tax dollars going for their weapons programs (see my comments on Israel above).
 

Toxick

Splat
vraiblonde said:
I think, by and large, American Muslims are loyal to the US. If anything, they're torn, much the same as Jews in this country.

Foreign Muslims, however, are victims of their ignorance. And the ignorance isn't even their fault because Islamic governments aren't the most supportive of free press and speech. That's is why they have this idea that the US is the Great Satan and out to annihilate the world.




I find your ideas intriguing and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
 

abdulhaqq

New Member
Q. Aren't there some verses of the Qur'an that condone "killing the infidel"?

A. The Qur'an commands Muslims to stick up for themselves in a defensive battle -- i.e. if an enemy army attacks, then Muslims are to fight against that army until they stop their aggression. All of the verses that speak about fighting/war in the Qur'an are in this context.

There are some specific verses that are very often "snipped" out of context, either by those trying to malign the faith, or by misguided Muslims themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics.

For example, one verse (in its snipped version) reads: "slay them wherever you catch them" (Qur'an 2:191). But who is this referring to? Who are "they" that this verse discusses? The preceding and following verses give the correct context:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevails justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression" (2:190-193).

It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.

Another similar verse can be found in chapter 9, verse 5 -- which in its snipped, out of context version could read: "fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)." Again, the preceding and following verses give the context.

This verse was revealed during a historical period when the small Muslim community had entered into treaties with neighboring tribes (Jewish, Christian, and pagan). Several of the pagan tribes had violated the terms of their treaty, secretly aiding an enemy attack against the Muslim community. The verse directly before this one instructs the Muslims to continue to honor treaties with anyone who has not since betrayed them, because fulfilling agreements is considered a righteous action. Then the verse continues, that those who have violated the terms of the treaty have declared war, so fight them... (as quoted above).

Directly after this permission to fight, the same verse continues, "but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them... for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." The subsequent verses instruct the Muslims to grant asylum to any member of the pagan tribe/army who asks for it, and again reminds that "as long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God loves the righteous."

Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Qur'an. Nowhere in the Qur'an can be found support for indiscriminate slaughter, the killing of non-combatants, or murder of innocent persons in 'payback' for another people's alleged crimes.

The Islamic teachings on this subject can be summed up in the following verses (Qur'an 60:7-8):

"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."
 
Top