TexasPride77
Eat More Beef, Less Chkn
abdulhaqq,
I’ve yet to read all posts in this thread but just had to respond to your initial comments. First of all, you will not survive in this forum unless you understand the humor of some of the members. Don’t take things personal, most of the time comments are made as a satirical joke.
Anyways…let me begin:
Webster says “modern” means: of, relating to, or characteristic of the present or the immediate past : CONTEMPORARY b : of, relating to, or characteristic of a period extending from a relevant remote past to the present time
I would say that modern in sense of society would encompass the last 10 years, the previous 10 would be semi-contemporary, and previous 20 years contemporary. Anything 30 and after is nostalgic.
So, what is this complex phenomenon? What words do you use to describe the “phenomenon”?
What are these causes? Please elaborate, I want to know. What social injustices are you referring to – please be specific? What society are you referring to – the Muslim society or an International society of all peoples?
I don’t know why I get the feeling you copied that out of some world history book but none less, I’ll play along. Explain how modern paradigms have caused social injustice to the Muslim community as a whole? I would like you to elaborate more on the specifics of the paradigm you are referring to. Overall, it seems (I may be wrong) that you have made a big generalization about many things. For you to be taken seriously, try not to talk so much like a politician and speak in laymen terms. Discuss each area specifically and back up your claims with facts and not rhetoric.
Secondly, and this is the most important reason why claiming that the struggle within the Muslim world is between the forces of modernity and medievialism is absolutely flawed, Islam holds within it the very same legal mechanisms to adapt to new circumstances just like the Constitution. Islam has systematically established dominance ine very corner of the world at different times without abandoning its core tenets by adopting its legal rulings to the particular needs of the people. Through the institution of taqleed,
First, if Islam was able to retain corporate coherency, there would not be terrorists. Granted the inquisition was wrong of Christianity it still fell within the accepted norms of Christianity at the time. Of course, the inquisition was found to be wrong and ended a time later. Independent reasoning in an interesting concept. Who’s reasoning? Ever hear of the phrase “Common sense is not so common.”? Never forget the words of Frank Zappa, “Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.” Your perception of a law from being inefficient and unjust is due to your own “independent reasoning”. Who are you to determine if a law is unjust when you do not live your life in accordance to a specific law? I do not live in Iran, Iraq, Turkey, etc so the laws of the land and people do not mean anything to me. If Muslims want to live in a Jewish state, that is their prerogative but it does not give them the right to complain about the laws of the land. If you don’t like the laws of the land, you are welcomed to leave.
What I think is troubling Islam is the fact that the democracy threatens the powers of the clergy. If the people of the land are able to make the laws, then the church looses its power over the people. Instead, the people obtain freedoms they were denied before. 1) Freedom of speech against government/church leaders 2) Freedom of choice of religion…. You get my point.
It is an individual’s prerogative to believe that their chosen religion is the “on true” religion. It is not your right, nor anyone else’s to force a religion on a person who does not believe in that religion. Nor do I believe it is a church’s right to dictate the way an individual lives their lives. God gave man Free will. Man has the right to choose to follow God or reject him. It is not a right of man to make another man believe in God. Unless you are participatory member or the long dead inquisition.
Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, etc. are
When the Muslim community is faced with a novel problem or issue that isn't directly addressed in the primary sources of Islamic jurisprudence, then one can engage in ijtehad or "independent reasoning." Thus, Islamic jurisprudence is constantly being adopted, reviewed, and revised in order to make it adapt to modern circumstances. This shows that
I disagree, I think that those who deny that Islam is IN FACT a medieval religion are in denial. Democracy represents progress and there is no room in Islam for social progression – only stagnation. If that is not the case then why have there been such issues with women’s rights? The suffrage movement in America opened up many eyes and changed American history forever. Perhaps such a movement is due in Islamic states.
I fail to understand why Muslims feel that non-Muslims MUST understand Islam. Muslims counter Christians and say they are going to hell. Oh yeah, that is reason for me to study Islam…to find out why I think extremist Muslims act as such idiots just because they disagree with my personal choice of religion.
So, with all this said – I do want it to be known that I do not think I all ready know the answers to life. I do think that I am open minded enough to accept alternative points of view. If nothing else, I have not problem agreeing to disagree for the sake of attaining a mutually cordial atmosphere.
I’ve yet to read all posts in this thread but just had to respond to your initial comments. First of all, you will not survive in this forum unless you understand the humor of some of the members. Don’t take things personal, most of the time comments are made as a satirical joke.
Anyways…let me begin:
Webster says “modern” means: of, relating to, or characteristic of the present or the immediate past : CONTEMPORARY b : of, relating to, or characteristic of a period extending from a relevant remote past to the present time
I would say that modern in sense of society would encompass the last 10 years, the previous 10 would be semi-contemporary, and previous 20 years contemporary. Anything 30 and after is nostalgic.
So, what is this complex phenomenon? What words do you use to describe the “phenomenon”?
What are these causes? Please elaborate, I want to know. What social injustices are you referring to – please be specific? What society are you referring to – the Muslim society or an International society of all peoples?
I don’t know why I get the feeling you copied that out of some world history book but none less, I’ll play along. Explain how modern paradigms have caused social injustice to the Muslim community as a whole? I would like you to elaborate more on the specifics of the paradigm you are referring to. Overall, it seems (I may be wrong) that you have made a big generalization about many things. For you to be taken seriously, try not to talk so much like a politician and speak in laymen terms. Discuss each area specifically and back up your claims with facts and not rhetoric.
Secondly, and this is the most important reason why claiming that the struggle within the Muslim world is between the forces of modernity and medievialism is absolutely flawed, Islam holds within it the very same legal mechanisms to adapt to new circumstances just like the Constitution. Islam has systematically established dominance ine very corner of the world at different times without abandoning its core tenets by adopting its legal rulings to the particular needs of the people. Through the institution of taqleed,
First, if Islam was able to retain corporate coherency, there would not be terrorists. Granted the inquisition was wrong of Christianity it still fell within the accepted norms of Christianity at the time. Of course, the inquisition was found to be wrong and ended a time later. Independent reasoning in an interesting concept. Who’s reasoning? Ever hear of the phrase “Common sense is not so common.”? Never forget the words of Frank Zappa, “Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.” Your perception of a law from being inefficient and unjust is due to your own “independent reasoning”. Who are you to determine if a law is unjust when you do not live your life in accordance to a specific law? I do not live in Iran, Iraq, Turkey, etc so the laws of the land and people do not mean anything to me. If Muslims want to live in a Jewish state, that is their prerogative but it does not give them the right to complain about the laws of the land. If you don’t like the laws of the land, you are welcomed to leave.
What I think is troubling Islam is the fact that the democracy threatens the powers of the clergy. If the people of the land are able to make the laws, then the church looses its power over the people. Instead, the people obtain freedoms they were denied before. 1) Freedom of speech against government/church leaders 2) Freedom of choice of religion…. You get my point.
It is an individual’s prerogative to believe that their chosen religion is the “on true” religion. It is not your right, nor anyone else’s to force a religion on a person who does not believe in that religion. Nor do I believe it is a church’s right to dictate the way an individual lives their lives. God gave man Free will. Man has the right to choose to follow God or reject him. It is not a right of man to make another man believe in God. Unless you are participatory member or the long dead inquisition.
Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, etc. are
When the Muslim community is faced with a novel problem or issue that isn't directly addressed in the primary sources of Islamic jurisprudence, then one can engage in ijtehad or "independent reasoning." Thus, Islamic jurisprudence is constantly being adopted, reviewed, and revised in order to make it adapt to modern circumstances. This shows that
I disagree, I think that those who deny that Islam is IN FACT a medieval religion are in denial. Democracy represents progress and there is no room in Islam for social progression – only stagnation. If that is not the case then why have there been such issues with women’s rights? The suffrage movement in America opened up many eyes and changed American history forever. Perhaps such a movement is due in Islamic states.
I fail to understand why Muslims feel that non-Muslims MUST understand Islam. Muslims counter Christians and say they are going to hell. Oh yeah, that is reason for me to study Islam…to find out why I think extremist Muslims act as such idiots just because they disagree with my personal choice of religion.
So, with all this said – I do want it to be known that I do not think I all ready know the answers to life. I do think that I am open minded enough to accept alternative points of view. If nothing else, I have not problem agreeing to disagree for the sake of attaining a mutually cordial atmosphere.
Well at least you and I can enjoy the humor in this post...