What Is Mormonism? A Baptist Answer

[itsbob]

The God of Islam is no more the Father of Jesus than the Mormon Jesus is the authentic Jesus of biblical revelation.

In answer to a person of the Baptist faith questioning Islam.. NEVER were MORMON's brought up in the question, but they seemed to have eeked into the answer.


WHY did the answerer put Islam into the Mormon context, if the hate of Mormons wasn't already understood??

It seems it MUST be something the church as a whole discusses and studies..

 

[camily]

Thanks for coming aboard... well put. I'm out of here for a while... Conversation has become to insane to continue right now.

Besides, I'm late for the baptists against mormons meeting! ha Tonights a doosy... we are supposed to look at directories of the surrounding cities to find "them"...

 

[camily]

Actually it does, or at least it did..

I know this for a fact.

And you have no argument about the picketing.. the marching on national church events.. the boycotting, and you don't see anything WRONG with that??

I've never done any of those things either. What makes you think I wouldn't find anything wrong with it?

 

[fredcaudle]

That a Baptist took the time to write a pice about a Mormon presidential hopeful kind of speaks volumes by itself doesn't it??

I didn't see any other Christians doing it..

I'm really out of here... but that is a very fair question you asked. Yes, there are many out there struggling with this issues. Those who are of like faith and different faith to the Mormons.

My first message on this thread to all this madness is my belief that we must look at the actions of a candidate and not what they say they believe... we all can talk, but actions speak the heart of an individual.

There are many baptists wanting to know... I believe his job is to keep the baptists informed as to a baptist ideology. So, yes, he would take the time to write it. There are many baptist who believe Mormons believe the same thing baptists do... (I've already addressed that as a Baptist)... so, it is just information out there.

 

[camily]

I'll admit, I don't know very much at all about Mormons but I did a little (very little) reading and found this:

Jesus was born in the flesh alien to the kingdom of God, the same as all other men. He had to be brought into the kingdom according to the law of God. “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God .” (John 3:5) “And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” (Matt. 3:16, 17)



Some have been led to believe through the doctrines of Constantine that Jesus was God. GOD cannot be alien to His own kingdom. The Father was speaking from heaven, the Son was rising up out of the water, and the Holy Spirit was descending upon Jesus. It is not possible that these three different entities in three different places at the same time can be one and the same identical person—GOD. GOD is one and not three.

This is contrary to what I believe. So no, we do not follow the same God becuse the trinity is indeed one being.

 

[itsbob]

Baptist Press - Watchman Fellowship gives boost to SWBTS - News with a Christian Perspective

It's ok, the "Watchmen" are on the job.. protecting you from all the non-believers..

 

[itsbob]

I'll admit, I don't know very much at all about Mormons but I did a little (very little) reading and found this:

Jesus was born in the flesh alien to the kingdom of God, the same as all other men. He had to be brought into the kingdom according to the law of God. “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God .” (John 3:5) “And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” (Matt. 3:16, 17)



Some have been led to believe through the doctrines of Constantine that Jesus was God. GOD cannot be alien to His own kingdom. The Father was speaking from heaven, the Son was rising up out of the water, and the Holy Spirit was descending upon Jesus. It is not possible that these three different entities in three different places at the same time can be one and the same identical person—GOD. GOD is one and not three.

This is contrary to what I believe. So no, we do not follow the same God becuse the trinity is indeed one being.

That doesn't mean the Mormons are wrong, and the Baptist's are MORE right..

Both of your religions are based on the New Testament.. same-o, same-o...

You have a church leader telling you what your church's interpretation is, and the Mormons have theirs.. Niether is more right or wrong than the other, just different.

 

[camily]

That doesn't mean the Mormons are wrong, and the Baptist's are MORE right..

Both of your religions are based on the New Testament.. same-o, same-o...

You have a church leader telling you what your church's interpretation is, and the Mormons have theirs.. Niether is more right or wrong than the other, just different.

No, I have the Bible telling me. The Bible doesn't include the book of mormon.

 

[MMDad]

No, I have the Bible telling me. The Bible doesn't include the book of mormon.

The Mormon's base their belief in a separate Christ on the New Testament. Your quote shows that. It doesn't come from the Book of Mormon. The BoM does not contradict or supersede the Bible.

Baptists (and others) ignore the verses that justify the Mormon interpretation. Mormons tend to downplay verses that disagree with their interpretation.

This whole discussion is why so many of us reject organized religion. The whole "we're right, you're wrong, so you are going to burn in hell" drives people away. Kind of counter productive, isn't it?

 

[fredcaudle]

The Mormon's base their belief in a separate Christ on the New Testament. Your quote shows that. It doesn't come from the Book of Mormon. The BoM does not contradict or supersede the Bible.

Baptists (and others) ignore the verses that justify the Mormon interpretation. Mormons tend to downplay verses that disagree with their interpretation.

This whole discussion is why so many of us reject organized religion. The whole "we're right, you're wrong, so you are going to burn in hell" drives people away. Kind of counter productive, isn't it?

"The Mormon's base their belief in a separate Christ on the New Testament".... Sorry, there is only one Christ prophesied in the Old Testament and fulfilled in the New Testament. If people come up with a "separate" Christ.... that means they are different from other Christian faiths. One God, One Christ, One Spirit... all three are One. Additionally Christians are told twice in Scripture not to add or take away from what is written. [i.e., there is no need for more books]

We ignore them as applied to Mormons because we don't agree with them... they can still claim them, but we don't have to agree or even reconcile them to Mormons... the Bible is greater than just one group of religion.

Belief comes from conviction. If I can give a wordly example here: Every football team in the NFL cannot be champion at the end of the year... they must do certain things in practice that are replicated in the field of play and as they progress they either win or loose. Only two teams go to the Superbowl... I know it is not fair that only one can win (after all they all are good people working extremely hard and not hurting anyone)... however, only one team is going to be victorious. Is that counter productive... this seems to drive people to the games, doesn't it?

Not all religions can be right in the end. We decide for ourselves what is right at present... one day all will know - just like at the end of time in the SuperBowl... no re-do's or foul play called, just one victor. Are you in?

 

[MMDad]

"The Mormon's base their belief in a separate Christ on the New Testament".... Sorry, there is only one Christ prophesied in the Old Testament and fulfilled in the New Testament. If people come up with a "separate" Christ.... that means they are different from other Christian faiths. One God, One Christ, One Spirit... all three are One. Additionally Christians are told twice in Scripture not to add or take away from what is written. [i.e., there is no need for more books]

We ignore them as applied to Mormons because we don't agree with them... they can still claim them, but we don't have to agree or even reconcile them to Mormons... the Bible is greater than just one group of religion.

Belief comes from conviction. If I can give a wordly example here: Every football team in the NFL cannot be champion at the end of the year... they must do certain things in practice that are replicated in the field of play and as they progress they either win or loose. Only two teams go to the Superbowl... I know it is not fair that only one can win (after all they all are good people working extremely hard and not hurting anyone)... however, only one team is going to be victorious. Is that counter productive... this seems to drive people to the games, doesn't it?

Not all religions can be right in the end. We decide for ourselves what is right at present... one day all will know - just like at the end of time in the SuperBowl... no re-do's or foul play called, just one victor. Are you in?

You are blind to even read anything that might shake your interpretation. Not your faith, your interpretation. You can see the verse, but you refuse to read it. It is just words on a page to you.

Your football analogy fails. If you think salvation is analogous to throwing touchdowns, I have to wonder what twisted scripture you read.

Please cite me a verse that says "whoever scores the most points wins the best place in heaven."

You are so intent on chalking up points that you have forgotten what matters, and have failed to understand the message.

 

[fredcaudle]

You are blind to even read anything that might shake your interpretation. Not your faith, your interpretation. You can see the verse, but you refuse to read it. It is just words on a page to you.

Your football analogy fails. If you think salvation is analogous to throwing touchdowns, I have to wonder what twisted scripture you read.

Please cite me a verse that says "whoever scores the most points wins the best place in heaven."

You are so intent on chalking up points that you have forgotten what matters, and have failed to understand the message.

I have failed to you... because you want me to fail. I could read the verse and even at this point agree with you and you would still argue.

You like to argue and you think you make people look foolish and yourself remains wise.

Twisted Scripture wouldn't matter, you would argue it and then bring up some other Scripture to chase rabbit trails.

I didn't know this was about points.... I understand what I am saying, it doesn't matter that we agree, or are you about points????

 

[Starman3000m]

The Mormon's base their belief in a separate Christ on the New Testament. Your quote shows that. It doesn't come from the Book of Mormon. The BoM does not contradict or supersede the Bible.

Baptists (and others) ignore the verses that justify the Mormon interpretation. Mormons tend to downplay verses that disagree with their interpretation.

This whole discussion is why so many of us reject organized religion. The whole "we're right, you're wrong, so you are going to burn in hell" drives people away. Kind of counter productive, isn't it?

Yet, there is still only ONE TRUTH regarding whether Mormons are "Christians" as they claim. Herein are excerpts that expose why Mormonism is not in line with the context of True Biblical teaching. For anyone who really wishes to know the difference, please take the time to read these short excerpts:

The Virgin Birth
The Bible and the Book of Mormon agree that Jesus was born of a virgin. This sign was given in the Old Testament. "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel" (Isaiah 7:14). The Bible says, "She was found to be with child through the Holy Ghost" (Matt. 1:18-28).
The Book of Mormon agrees, "...she being a virgin ... who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost..." (Alma 7:10) However, Brigham Young denied this Biblical truth: "Now remember from this time forth and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost" (Journal of Discourses Vol. 1, p. 51).
The meaning of "virgin" is that Mary had never had sex with anyone. Mormon prophets and apostles have continually taught that God the Father came down to earth with his glorified physical body, parts, and passions and had sex with the "virgin" Mary to form the body of Jesus Christ. Mormon Apostle James Talmage calls this act "celestial sireship" (Jesus the Christ, p. 81).
Apostle Bruce R. McConkie says that it happened in the "same way that mortal sons are born to mortal fathers". He also said that it happened in the "normal and natural" way (Mormon Doctrine, p. 742).
Ezra Taft Benson (former prophet of the Mormon Church who died in 1994), not only stated that Jesus was not begotten by the Holy Ghost, but also that Jesus was literally "sired" by God the Father (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 7). He then goes on to say that Mary was "called a virgin both before and after she gave birth." By this statement, the Mormon prophet is saying that although Jesus was "sired [sexual relations] by that same being we worship as God our Eternal Father", we will still "call" his mother a "virgin."
Source: Mormons Deny Jesus

What Do Mormons Believe About Other Christian Churches?
Mormons desire the fellowship and association of other Christian churches. Mormons believe in freedom of religion and allow all to worship as they please. All Christian churches are based on faith in Jesus Christ but Mormons believe that God grants authority to administer the gospel. This is the priesthood. Without that authority, the ordinances of salvation cannot be performed. Although other Christian churches have faith in Jesus and live His teachings, they have not received baptism by the proper authority to be able to receive salvation. Mormons believe the priesthood authority of God is found only in the Mormon Church.
Great Info about Mormons and Mormonsim

More Comparative Information: “Mormonism vs Traditional Christianity”

How Mormonism Differs from Traditional Christianity -- Beliefnet.com

 

[fredcaudle]

You are blind to even read anything that might shake your interpretation. Not your faith, your interpretation. You can see the verse, but you refuse to read it. It is just words on a page to you.

Your football analogy fails. If you think salvation is analogous to throwing touchdowns, I have to wonder what twisted scripture you read.

Please cite me a verse that says "whoever scores the most points wins the best place in heaven."

You are so intent on chalking up points that you have forgotten what matters, and have failed to understand the message.

actually your nickname says it better than I just did... I didn't catch that before... you Sarcastic...

 

[fredcaudle]

actually your nickname says it better than I just did... I didn't catch that before... you Sarcastic...

Didn't mean it to come out that way... I mean you know "Sarcastic...."

 

[camily]

You are blind to even read anything that might shake your interpretation. Not your faith, your interpretation. You can see the verse, but you refuse to read it. It is just words on a page to you.

Your football analogy fails. If you think salvation is analogous to throwing touchdowns, I have to wonder what twisted scripture you read.

Please cite me a verse that says "whoever scores the most points wins the best place in heaven."

You are so intent on chalking up points that you have forgotten what matters, and have failed to understand the message.

Sorry MM. I think you missed his point. The football thing was just ananalogy. A simplified version.

 

[camily]

It's kind of an oxymoron. Mormons are a real mix of left and right. They believe in charity, helping your fellow man, and a society that comes close to socialism. However, they also (with good reason) distrust the federal government and want autonomy. They also tend to be capitalists and reject federal welfare. I don't see how a Mormon could survive the press that a candicacy would produce.

As someone who was raised Mormon, I would only vote for one if he were up against Billary, Kerry, or Gore. Mormons are racist and cultist, just like Catholics, so I don't know who Drunk Teddy thinks he is to speak up.

This church is not AT all affiliated with the LDS (Mormons) It's almost like saying the Davidians represent the Catholic Church.

They still believe in Plural Marriages.. for one to be a Prophet of the Church they must have lineage to Joseph Smith.. Women are definitely subservient.

As far as the JW, Mormon thing, I think most can see the Mormons to be more in line with mainstream religion. More part of the world then trying to be different from the world.

The biggest difference between the door knockers, JW's are usually local church members that do the door knocking as part of a daily ritual or requirment of the church, on top of work kids etc.. Mormons, their missionaries are away from home, from anywhere in the world. They are on a two year mission, they are not allowed to work, they don't get paid, their personal lives are VERY restricted for those two years as to what they can and can't do, and their lives are centered around missionary work for the church the entire two years. They have to have either saved for the two year mission, have their family pay their way, or if need be, their home church pays for them to be on a mission. Church usually gives a monthly $$ amount the family or the missionary have to pay.

Mormon men are EXPECTED to go on a two year mission when they become adults (18 - 20) and women can volunteer to go on a mission.

The freaking mormons showed up at our door tonight. My wife figured out who they were. She knew I would be rude, so she politely told them we weren't interested.

30 seconds later, the doorbell rings again. I was pissed. I opened the door and said "Did you not understand what my wife said?" Guy says "But I'm Bishop ########, and..." I cut him off and told them to leave.

They took a bit while they sat in their truck, I'm sure to pray for me.

I haven't pretended to be a mormon since 1979. I have never set foot in a Mormon church in Maryland. They just can't catch a clue. I have repeately told them to leave me alone, but they just can't stop.

Seven years ago, somebody called to invite me to host the mormon singles group. My wife said "As his wife, I can assure you he will not be hosting any single's groups!"

She was all offended until I explained to her that in their view, since I only had one wife, I was still single!

From these past quotes, I'd say their are major difference between Mormons and the christianity I know. Also, they seem to be contradictory to what has been said here concerning the Mormon faith. I have no direct knowledge though, so I can't say for sure what is correct.

 

[itsbob]

No, I have the Bible telling me. The Bible doesn't include the book of mormon.

No, you have church leadership, a pastor, and your local clergy telling you what your church believes to be true.. You choose to accept it or not, but your church, just like every OTHER church tells you what to believe, and the churches interpretation.. you just get to chose to accept it or not.

In the end the Bible doesn't tell you much, at least nowhere near as much as your chosen church does.. I would guess your church even supplies reading materials, and study materials so you can study the bible in a way they want you to.. Sunday School classes that teach their interpretation.. Adult classes.. sermons..

This is the same as ANY church.. it's what they do.

But i cant think of ANY church that spends as much time and money and has a standing "watch" to discredit other religions, to make theirs look MORE right.

 

[itsbob]

From these past quotes, I'd say their are major difference between Mormons and the christianity I know. Also, they seem to be contradictory to what has been said here concerning the Mormon faith. I have no direct knowledge though, so I can't say for sure what is correct.

Why did you use my quote in your post??

Mine was talking about an altogether different church than the Mormons, or LDS..

 

[camily]

Why did you use my quote in your post??

Mine was talking about an altogether different church than the Mormons, or LDS..

Becaus eof this quote:
They still believe in Plural Marriages.. for one to be a Prophet of the Church they must have lineage to Joseph Smith.. Women are definitely subservient

That is showing the difference between the churches if you meant mormons.