What kind of god would send

[wxtornado]

Why ain't you out saving your world being there is nothing more than yourself to be worried about? If your just worm dirt, whatcha got to lose?
Your wasting time.......get busy....................

I've never claimed to want to "save the world".

 

[wxtornado]

I think there is a great deal of evidence Jesus lived (then died, then lived again for that matter).

For instance?

 

[This_person]

For instance?

Well, there's the several books bound together as a Bible. Letters, hundreds of millions of people over time who've followed his words over time, corroboration of disputing religions as to his life (with disagreement as to the meaning of his life), etc.

 

[wxtornado]

Well, there's the several books bound together as a Bible. Letters, hundreds of millions of people over time who've followed his words over time, corroboration of disputing religions as to his life (with disagreement as to the meaning of his life), etc.

Again, you seem to think the provenance of the bible is impeccable. I come from the school that it was obviously re-written, books were discarded, and it has gone through generation after generation, translation after translation. We have no originals to know what was "originally" written, but even that wouldn't serve as proof. We do know, for instance, what was originally written by the Egyptians about Amon-Ra and Isis and Osiris. Do any of those stories carved on the pyramids mean the stories are true and not myths?

The messiah story is a mythological model told many times. The "Jesus" story exists in numerous, previous versions. One can see the similarities in the tales of Hercules.

You're just assuming that it's in the bible, therefore there were apostles and disciples who wrote it all, and it's all accurate and we all should believe it based on this criteria.

There are far more reasonable scenarios than the one put forth in the bible. It would include messianic beliefs sytems, the oppression of the state, the history of the people, the existence of revolutionaries (even peaceful ones: Jesus could easily have been the Martin Luther King or Ghandhi of his time), the building of a religious movement, etc.

The dearth of corrboration serves to further support the view that all of this is myth-building. And there's absoluely nothing wrong with myth-building, providing it's understood to be mythical. Go watch "ET" some day and note the remarkable archetypical similarities between it and the classic messianic story. It's certianly inspiring.

But, that doesn't make it true.

 

[Xaquin44]

Well, there's the several books bound together as a Bible. Letters, hundreds of millions of people over time who've followed his words over time, corroboration of disputing religions as to his life (with disagreement as to the meaning of his life), etc.

ahahhaa

I should write a book called "I'm god: worship ahoy!" .... I mean, apparently if I write it, it is so.

 

[This_person]

We have no originals to know what was "originally" written, but even that wouldn't serve as proof.

What would serve as proof for you?

 

[This_person]

ahahhaa

I should write a book called "I'm god: worship ahoy!" .... I mean, apparently if I write it, it is so.

You die, come back to life, and have multitudes witness this and follow you for millenia, and we'll see how it words for you!

 

[Xaquin44]

You die, come back to life, and have multitudes witness this and follow you for millenia, and we'll see how it words for you!

I will .... In fact, I already did. I wrote it down just now.

 

[This_person]

I will .... In fact, I already did. I wrote it down just now.

I'll repeat my question to wxtornado to you: what would serve as proof to you?

 

[Xaquin44]

I'll repeat my question to wxtornado to you: what would serve as proof to you?

Having him come down from up on high and fix some things would be a nice start.

Seriously, if I had the power of god, I would.

 

[This_person]

Having him come down from up on high and fix some things would be a nice start. Seriously, if I had the power of god, I would.

I don't know if you have any kids, or how old they are if you do. I have two young adult children. If I fix all of their mistakes (or even their big ones), they'll never learn to control their lives themselves.

I often compare, mentally, God to a parent. Knows a hell of a lot more than I do, lots more experience, ability to correct a lot of things, just like a parent. And, we humans are just teenagers. We're arrogant, self centered, and think we can do it all ourselves. Oh, and we're wrong, just like teenagers. Coming to God takes a lot of humility, self-awareness, and submission that there are things going on we just don't get. Kind of like being in your late 20's or 30's (for some).

 

[wxtornado]

I'll repeat my question to wxtornado to you: what would serve as proof to you?

Any evidence at all that is testable and can stand up to peer review. I don't think that's too much to ask.

The problem with what theists assert is that it simply assumes everything is accurate in the Bible with no skepticism or corrboration at all.

The OT says Jesus was born of a virgin (it doesn't say that, but this is the simple example). Okay, the NT says Jesus was born of a virgin. Case closed. It's true. Jesus fulfilled the prophecy.

What proof do we have? Oh, well the bible said it. Thanks. See ya.

Let me ask you this. If someone came around today and said, "Wait. I was born of a virgin. I'm the real messiah." would you believe him?

I'd say it was unlikely; you believe because you want to, but not because these are facts that have been in any way corrborated. They haven't been. They've just been stated, and a lot of people uncritically believe them.

In no way does that make it true.

 

[Marie]

The messiah story is a mythological model told many times. The "Jesus" story exists in numerous, previous versions. One can see the similarities in the tales of Hercules.

.

Hercules never rose from the dead after 3 days, and was never seen by 565 people in one setting, or on 4 differnt occassions, and dropped in and ate lunch while he was there at one.

But the issue is much bigger. Buttom line do you realize your sins, do they break your heart, and do you desire forgivness from the one offering it freely, Or are you perfectly content in them and dont want to serve anyone other than your self and the god of this world? We have a choice.

I dont know anyone else that laid down his life for the sins of others.

There was a great story of 3 boys out a sea the boat flipped and the father could save his only son, who was a Christian or save his two friends that wernt.
He knew where his son would go and the two boys. He made the hard choice and saved the other two. The one telling the story was a minister from his pulpit one of the two boys that got saved twice once buy a man that gave up his son and once by Jesus Christ.

 

[Marie]

Answers For Skeptics

Any evidence at all that is testable and can stand up to peer review. I don't think that's too much to ask.

I thought you might enjoy this.

Get Answers: Countering the Critics

 

[tommyjones]

Hercules never rose from the dead after 3 days, and was never seen by 565 people in one setting, or on 4 differnt occassions, and dropped in and ate lunch while he was there at one.

But the issue is much bigger. Buttom line do you realize your sins, do they break your heart, and do you desire forgivness from the one offering it freely, Or are you perfectly content in them and dont want to serve anyone other than your self and the god of this world? We have a choice.

I dont know anyone else that laid down his life for the sins of others.

There was a great story of 3 boys out a sea the boat flipped and the father could save his only son, who was a Christian or save his two friends that wernt.
He knew where his son would go and the two boys. He made the hard choice and saved the other two. The one telling the story was a minister from his pulpit one of the two boys that got saved twice once buy a man that gave up his son and once by Jesus Christ.

i think that the point is many dont believe that christ did either.
many believe that christ was just a man and that the writting in the bible are ficticious and exagerations......


in fact most religions that speak of christ indicate he was a real person, but just that.

 

[Xaquin44]

I don't know if you have any kids, or how old they are if you do. I have two young adult children. If I fix all of their mistakes (or even their big ones), they'll never learn to control their lives themselves.

I often compare, mentally, God to a parent. Knows a hell of a lot more than I do, lots more experience, ability to correct a lot of things, just like a parent. And, we humans are just teenagers. We're arrogant, self centered, and think we can do it all ourselves. Oh, and we're wrong, just like teenagers. Coming to God takes a lot of humility, self-awareness, and submission that there are things going on we just don't get. Kind of like being in your late 20's or 30's (for some).

yeah, I'm not talking about parenting like oh, little susie almost didn't make rent, I won't fix her problem, but I'll stress the importance of saving money for an emergency. I'm talking about rape, murder, starvation. You know, stuff kids are born into everyday for no good reason.

 

[Xaquin44]

I thought you might enjoy this.

Get Answers: Countering the Critics

yeah, are you ever going to answer about god telling his chosen to enslave the children of heathens?

 

[This_person]

Any evidence at all that is testable and can stand up to peer review. I don't think that's too much to ask.

So, basically, you ask to not need to have faith in anything. You ask for a concept that doesn't exist for any belief system, including atheism (you have to have faith that coincidence occurred in just the right ((implausible)) way, etc.).

The problem with what theists assert is that it simply assumes everything is accurate in the Bible with no skepticism or corrboration at all.

Ever been in space? Then how do YOU know that the world is a sphere? You see pictures, you hear stories, you read about what other people say and why they say it..... How's that any different?

Let me ask you this. If someone came around today and said, "Wait. I was born of a virgin. I'm the real messiah." would you believe him?

I'd say it was unlikely; you believe because you want to, but not because these are facts that have been in any way corrborated. They haven't been. They've just been stated, and a lot of people uncritically believe them.

In no way does that make it true.

I agree, it doesn't make it true.

Hell, the disciples were all there, watching what was going on, seeing and living the miracles. (yes, I know this is all according to the numerous books that make up the Bible, but go with me here) Even after seeing it all, when Jesus was killed they went back to fishing (at first - and yes, I know they weren't all fishermen.... go big flick with me). They had, by all the stories, all the reason in the world to pass out from sheer wonder at all they saw, and they just stopped wandering with the guy 'cuz he died, so they went back to work. That's always been a sticking point for me. But, that doesn't make it NOT true.

So, if a person came up and claimed to be the real Christ, I'd need some proof. If I witnessed a few miracles, I'd probably write 'em down (and, Xa, I'd probably not care much about when his birthday was). I may believe, I may not, who knows. We're probably more cynical now than a couple thousand years ago.

But, you're right. I believe because I choose to, as you choose not to believe and have faith in something else instead.

 

[This_person]

yeah, I'm not talking about parenting like oh, little susie almost didn't make rent, I won't fix her problem, but I'll stress the importance of saving money for an emergency. I'm talking about rape, murder, starvation. You know, stuff kids are born into everyday for no good reason.

Bigger scale, same answer. God doesn't support the problems we humans put ourselves in, by my estimation. But, He wants US to figure our own way out.

 

[Xaquin44]

Bigger scale, same answer. God doesn't support the problems we humans put ourselves in, by my estimation. But, He wants US to figure our own way out.

babies put themselves into starvation?

those jerks .... they should get up and feed themselves .... lazy bastards .... they're 2 months old. Suck it up kids.

man, what?

what god would allow things like that?

(not one I would worship)