What losing the war on terror looks like

[PsyOps]

Time for a president who won't create more terrorists than he kills, time to bring our boys back to their families, time for a Democrat in the White House.

BTW... this demands some questions: Specifically what will a democrat do to NOT create more terrorists? How will "bringing our boys home" result in the creation of less terrorists? What are the specific plans and tactics Clinton or Obama will use to kill more terrorists than they create?

 

[Larry Gude]

If we...

BTW... this demands some questions: Specifically what will a democrat do to NOT create more terrorists? How will "bringing our boys home" result in the creation of less terrorists? What are the specific plans and tactics Clinton or Obama will use to kill more terrorists than they create?

...ever bother listening to what the terrorists, fundamentalist Muslims, say they are upset about we see three things;

1. Our armed forces in their Holy Lands.

2. Support for a corrupt regime in Saudi.

3. Support for Israel.

So, from our standpoint, it is only simple reason to examine these issues and decide if we are doing something in our national interests that they are just gonna have to deal with, and then we accept the repercussions, or are we doing something that not only isn't in our national interests, but has the additional negative of being something that exacerbates the negatives.

 

[PsyOps]

If we ever bother listening to what the terrorists, fundamentalist Muslims, say they are upset about we see three things;

1. Our armed forces in their Holy Lands.

2. Support for a corrupt regime in Saudi.

3. Support for Israel.

So, from our standpoint, it is only simple reason to examine these issues and decide if we are doing something in our national interests that they are just gonna have to deal with, and then we accept the repercussions, or are we doing something that not only isn't in our national interests, but has the additional negative of being something that exacerbates the negatives.

First of all I'm not arguing about their anger at us. I'm making a political point. If this was a democrat as our sitting CINC the dems would have no problem with this.

Secondly, the terrorists' response is irrational. They target innocent people to get their message across. The same demand (that you just eluded to above) that is put on us (peace talks, negotiations, diplomacy) is not applied to them. We just accept that their first line of response is going to be violence and their target is typically going to be civilians and we somehow have become complacent to that fact.

From that end I don't feel I have to have any sort of sympathy towards them and their problems with us until they change their tactics. They didn't get their title "terrorist" from nothing.

 

[KillJoy]

time for a Democrat in the White House.

Funniest thing I have heard all day. Thank you.

 

[edinsomd]

...ever bother listening to what the terrorists, fundamentalist Muslims, say they are upset about we see three things;

1. Our armed forces in their Holy Lands.

2. Support for a corrupt regime in Saudi.

3. Support for Israel.

So, from our standpoint, it is only simple reason to examine these issues and decide if we are doing something in our national interests that they are just gonna have to deal with, and then we accept the repercussions, or are we doing something that not only isn't in our national interests, but has the additional negative of being something that exacerbates the negatives.

You forgot:
4. Desire for a world-wide Caliphate under Sharia Law.
Gimme that Old Time Religion....
Ed

 

[Bann]

You forgot:
4. Desire for a world-wide Caliphate under Sharia Law.
Gimme that Old Time Religion....
Ed

 

[Larry Gude]

I think...

You forgot:
4. Desire for a world-wide Caliphate under Sharia Law.
Gimme that Old Time Religion....
Ed

...it is fair to add that and, perhaps, it is the larger point, but, people like Osama need a pretext to make much of a cause as, absent us giving them the pretext, Islam would rather peacefully be going about it's decline.

 

[PsyOps]

...it is fair to add that and, perhaps, it is the larger point, but, people like Osama need a pretext to make much of a cause as, absent us giving them the pretext, Islam would rather peacefully be going about it's decline.

Yeah... sure they would.

 

[Larry Gude]

Ok...

Yeah... sure they would.

...pre gulf war I, how, exactly was the 'ol global sharia drive doing?

 

[edinsomd]

...pre gulf war I, how, exactly was the 'ol global sharia drive doing?

Pretty well. In Europe and Asia anyway.
Ed

 

[Larry Gude]

Ok...

Pretty well. In Europe and Asia anyway.
Ed

...I see we have no lack of folks petrified of the Sharia boogeyman.

Not to be too delicate about this, but the rest of the world can go #### themselves. We were a better nation 8 years ago. We were a better people. We've chosen to interject ourselves into a crusade in Iraq and we're worse for it. I can't even begin to tell you what we're up to in Afghanistan. Going off to war is sometimes just the way it is. Winning it is far preferable to losing it.

In any event, it is a long historical fact; when you go off to war, you, by definition, expose yourself at home. Look at us.

 

[PsyOps]

Ok... pre gulf war I, how, exactly was the 'ol global sharia drive doing?

It was on the rise. We, like the rest of the world, pretended they were a bunch of gnats; just an annoyance. That is, until it blew up in our face.

 

[MMDad]

...pre gulf war I, how, exactly was the 'ol global sharia drive doing?

Do you mean pre-Iran Hostage? You do know there was Islamic Fundamentalism prior to GW1, don't you?

Does the Fatwa against Rushdie ring a bell? America the "Great Satan?"

Our presence in the region is just the excuse of the day. The truth is that our existence is offensive to them, and they will hate us and kill us as long as we exist.

 

[SamSpade]

1. Our armed forces in their Holy Lands.

To the best of my knowledge, we haven't had any troops stationed in Saudi for almost five years. Maybe someone will correct me.

As to support for Israel - it was created by the U.N.
About damned time they started supporting their own creation.

 

[Larry Gude]

Ok...

Do you mean pre-Iran Hostage? You do know there was Islamic Fundamentalism prior to GW1, don't you?

Does the Fatwa against Rushdie ring a bell? America the "Great Satan?"

Our presence in the region is just the excuse of the day. The truth is that our existence is offensive to them, and they will hate us and kill us as long as we exist.

...off we go to the history books.

Do you know that post WWII Iran was a friend? A good one? Do you know that most Iranians felt deep affection towards the US at that time? Do you know that we sabotaged a duly and fairly conducted election that is THE root of our discord with Iran to this day? Do you know that until then Iran was a fairly open, non sectarian state?

WE gave the fundamentalists the opening and the opportunity. They took it and all that had to do to show the people the error of their ways and misplaced trust in the West was point at the 'democracy' that killed Western values in Iraq. We're reaping what we sowed.

 

[edinsomd]

...off we go to the history books.

Do you know that post WWII Iran was a friend? A good one? Do you know that most Iranians felt deep affection towards the US at that time? Do you know that we sabotaged a duly and fairly conducted election that is THE root of our discord with Iran to this day? Do you know that until then Iran was a fairly open, non sectarian state?

WE gave the fundamentalists the opening and the opportunity. They took it and all that had to do to show the people the error of their ways and misplaced trust in the West was point at the 'democracy' that killed Western values in Iraq. We're reaping what we sowed.

All quite true, and we have the peanut farmer to thank for the Iranian sea-change. You know, the one treating with Hamas terrorists?
Ed (Second Amendment Advocate- not petrified in the least by Sharia boogymen)

 

[MMDad]

...off we go to the history books.

Do you know that post WWII Iran was a friend? A good one? Do you know that most Iranians felt deep affection towards the US at that time? Do you know that we sabotaged a duly and fairly conducted election that is THE root of our discord with Iran to this day? Do you know that until then Iran was a fairly open, non sectarian state?

WE gave the fundamentalists the opening and the opportunity. They took it and all that had to do to show the people the error of their ways and misplaced trust in the West was point at the 'democracy' that killed Western values in Iraq. We're reaping what we sowed.

Of course I know the history of our relationship with Iran. They almost blew me up, so I wanted to know why. The Shah, our support for him, and the way we handeled his demise was a major FUBAR.

But that doesn't change the fact that Muslim hate of the US pre-dates GW1. Their excuse of hating us because we are there is still just a convenient way to justify their actions and gain sympathy.

 

[MMDad]

All quite true, and we have the peanut farmer to thank for the Iranian sea-change. You know, the one treating with Hamas terrorists?
Ed (Second Amendment Advocate- not petrified in the least by Sharia boogymen)

You can only blame Carter for a shameful end to a decades long mistake in Iran.

 

[Larry Gude]

Ok...

Their excuse of hating us because we are there is still just a convenient way to justify their actions and gain sympathy.

...they are a given; they hate the West. Western values spell the end of Islam, at least as they know it. We gave them what they needed to hurt us.
Unnecessary, ill considered policies on our part make our enemies much stronger than they otherwise would be.

 

[MMDad]

...they are a given; they hate the West. Western values spell the end of Islam, at least as they know it. We gave them what they needed to hurt us.
Unnecessary, ill considered policies on our part make our enemies much stronger than they otherwise would be.

Yep.