MMDad
Lem Putt
why would they fail? They're not restricted by our sense of fair play.
I guess that's why I'm not running for president.
What losing the war on terror looks like
- Thread starter forestal
- Start date
I guess that's why I'm not running for president.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Ok...
...but Iran is nowhere near the totalitarian regime Iraq was. As I've said before, we're the ones who wronged them and we're the ones who set the table for the zealots to take power. Yet still there is constantly said by many people that Iranians are, by nature, considerably Western in temperament. They're Persians, not Arabs.
Big difference.
...but Iran is nowhere near the totalitarian regime Iraq was. As I've said before, we're the ones who wronged them and we're the ones who set the table for the zealots to take power. Yet still there is constantly said by many people that Iranians are, by nature, considerably Western in temperament. They're Persians, not Arabs.
Big difference.
PsyOps
Pixelated
No, no Larry, don't get me wrong. I want out. I want the democrats to handle this mess. They think they have it figured out. Let them have it. I'm looking forward to this.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Well...
...it would be interesting to see a list of the endless contracts and their terms and conditions. Another Bush disaster has been the massive outsourcing of the one branch of the federal government that works pretty good.
I can see it now; "I, Barrack H. Obama do solemnly swear, and not so solemnly swear, that I am sorry we can't do sh1t right now until the contracts expire."
...it would be interesting to see a list of the endless contracts and their terms and conditions. Another Bush disaster has been the massive outsourcing of the one branch of the federal government that works pretty good.
I can see it now; "I, Barrack H. Obama do solemnly swear, and not so solemnly swear, that I am sorry we can't do sh1t right now until the contracts expire."
MMDad
Lem Putt
You want it to fail under the Dems watch? Why stoop to such partisan lows?
It's shameful when people hope for the country to suffer to make a political point.
MMDad
Lem Putt
All of those contracts can be cancelled. They could tell every single contractor to get on the next plane. It's called termination for the convenience of the government.
Of course, we'd still have to pay the expenses associated with the termination, but it can be done.
PsyOps
Pixelated
I guess I didn't make my point clear. I have argued endlessly about staying and seeing this through. But it's obvious the American people want differently. It's one of those "be careful what you ask for" scenarios. I'm tired with arguing the point.
My real point is the democrats no more want to end this than I do. They just know as long as a GOPer is calling the shots, any sort of success we see 10 years from now will belong to them. The dems can't afford for this to happen. They want credit. All of it. Has nothing to do with winning or losing the war, it has to do with political power here at home. You will see how popular this war will suddenly become when the democrats are in control no matter poorly it is going.
PsyOps
Pixelated
I can't argue the contracting side of things because I am a product of both active duty and contracting. Contracting back at home has freed up a lot of troops to be deployed. Contracting also provides stability in positions that would otherwise suffer training-wise. In the IT world I work the technology is becoming such that the constant rotation of troops in and out of these positions leaves training voids that contractors fill.
SamSpade
Well-Known Member
Nah, the war will never become popular - but they will find a way to screw it up further and claim that the Republicans messed it up SO BAD they just couldn't fix it. It's their most common refrain - when they're not in power, it's the Republican's fault. When they ARE in power, it's the Republican's fault. When they are in power and something they do fails, it was a Republican idea.
I think if they ever actually succeed, they'll all drop over dead from disbelief. Because then they'd have to blame the Republicans for helping them SUCCEED.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Americans...
...like a winner and the war was very popular the first, what, 6 months or so, until the insurgency started rolling.
Let's say Hillary wins and she decides that 'victory' in Iraq is important because getting out is too sticky and too messy. Let's say she tells the generals she wants quiet over there. Let's say they tell her she can have all the quiet she wants if she lets them do their job. Would you want to be one of the people, or nations, in the way of things settling down?
...like a winner and the war was very popular the first, what, 6 months or so, until the insurgency started rolling.
Let's say Hillary wins and she decides that 'victory' in Iraq is important because getting out is too sticky and too messy. Let's say she tells the generals she wants quiet over there. Let's say they tell her she can have all the quiet she wants if she lets them do their job. Would you want to be one of the people, or nations, in the way of things settling down?
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Look...
...the last thing I begrudge is people and business taking advantage of the opportunity. It's the idea that sux. I argued, starting some time ago, that we should have been expanding the military, in terms of people, massively, starting on 9/12/01. That should have been Rumsfeld's job one. The fervor was there and the need was there.
I also argued for a doubling of people's pay thus making all those E5's we churn out in droves interested in and able to justify staying in.
If he has a gun in his hands he should be in the employ of the US military. It is a national shame and embarrassment that one single person is escorted by and protected by contractors.
...the last thing I begrudge is people and business taking advantage of the opportunity. It's the idea that sux. I argued, starting some time ago, that we should have been expanding the military, in terms of people, massively, starting on 9/12/01. That should have been Rumsfeld's job one. The fervor was there and the need was there.
I also argued for a doubling of people's pay thus making all those E5's we churn out in droves interested in and able to justify staying in.
If he has a gun in his hands he should be in the employ of the US military. It is a national shame and embarrassment that one single person is escorted by and protected by contractors.
PsyOps
Pixelated
Outsourcing has been going on the military for nearly 20 years now. Some old military folks (like me) might remember the A-76 program. It was deisigned to evaluate jobs held by green-suiters and contract them out. Started with HW and really exploded under Clinton. W and Rummy exptended it into the security forces. We all saw us loosing our jobs to civilians; and many did. In the war zone I think it's gone too far.
The pay argument is always there. But you have to consider that much of a GI's pay (base pay, food allowance and housing allowance) isn't taxed (in the war zones none of it is), they receive 100% tuition assistance, and free medical and dental care. All of this gets calculated into their pay. I will agree it's not nearly enough though.
PsyOps
Pixelated
Why do you think WWII was so popular? The media. It made sure of it. Of course it was controlled then, but today’s has a leftist agenda.
When Clinton was president he could do nothing wrong. Although most of tenure was spent dodging one GOP mud pie after another, the media and the left always found a way to justify and apologize for his bad behavior. It’s how he avoided conviction of his impeachment. Why do you think Gore’s Global Warming crap got so much traction? The Nobel Peace Prize for crying out loud! It’s all media driven.
Once the media and the left realized the power in popularity Bush was gaining from this (once) popular war, the media and the left went completely negative; calling everything he did a failure and blamed him for everything that went wrong. Heck, Bush even made hurricane Katrina happen. He will leave the WH with the lowest ratings of any exiting president. Lower than Carter; another Nobel Peace prize winner. Where’s the peace Jimmy? Who, BTW is sleeping with the enemy as we type; all at the silence of the media.
The media and the left will somehow spin this war into a positive and noble effort. Code Pink, the DailyKos, MoveOn, et al… will go silent and our troops will continue to die, but all for a renewed and different reason: democracy and mid-east stability.
R
RadioPatrol
Guest
did you hear about Al-Q's # 2 released an audio tape taking Iran and Imakook to task for trying to convince people that 9/11 was a Zionist Plot .... and not the work of Sunni Al Q
A little A-76 history.
The roots of Circular A-76 can be traced to the former Bureau of the Budget’s Bulletin 55-4 (issued January 15, 1955), which stated that the federal government would “not start or carry on any commercial activity” that the private sector could do. Revisions have been made periodically ever since. The policy first appeared in its current “A-76” form on March 3, 1966. It has been changed three times: in 1967, 1979, and 1983.
PsyOps
Pixelated
The trend you are seeing today in out-sourcing stems from the A-76 process started around 1988. When the Cold War "ended" we were seeing just about every job held by a green-suiter being out-sourced. It was all part of the major effort to "downsize" the military. The reality is they downsized nothing budget-wise. The cost of running the DoD actually rose while it looked like a smaller military because of less green-suiters.
Considering that positions under study by FTE in 1988 totaled 17,249 with 12,000 being from DOD wouldn't indicate to me that "just about every job held by a green-suiter" was outsourced. I will say that 1988 was the highest study year and such A-76 studies had dropped down to only 441 DOD FTE in 1993 and then climbed to peak in 1997 when DOD placed 25,255 positions under study. The huge increase in study positions, in my mind, were fueled more by the Clinton Administration’s National Performance Review, The Federal Acquisition Streamlining Act (P.L. 103-355), The Federal Acquisition Reform Act (P.L. 104-106), and The Information Technology Management Reform Act of 1996 (P.L. 104-106). A-76 was, at the time, merely the process for how the studies were conducted.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Missed...
...that one; link?
did you hear about Al-Q's # 2 released an audio tape taking Iran and Imakook to task for trying to convince people that 9/11 was a Zionist Plot .... and not the work of Sunni Al Q
...that one; link?
Larry Gude
Strung Out
It's not...
...fair and the bigger issue is an obligation to the soldier, after serving his country and spending 1--15 years of the prime of his life and being 35 years old with a skill set, fighting, that doesn't convey real good to the real world. Certainly, many military jobs prepare you for moving into the private sector, but if you're a tip of the spear type who actually shoots and blows things up and so forth, it's not good for you to go be a security guard for $30k nor is it good for the military to lose that institutional memory and experience.
...fair and the bigger issue is an obligation to the soldier, after serving his country and spending 1--15 years of the prime of his life and being 35 years old with a skill set, fighting, that doesn't convey real good to the real world. Certainly, many military jobs prepare you for moving into the private sector, but if you're a tip of the spear type who actually shoots and blows things up and so forth, it's not good for you to go be a security guard for $30k nor is it good for the military to lose that institutional memory and experience.
R
RadioPatrol
Guest
Oil Futures keep going up and up .............
Oil Needs to be taken back off of the Mercantile Exchange ............