What losing the war on terror looks like

[Larry Gude]

So...

Yep.

...how we got into a mess is the blueprint for the most logical process of getting out.

 

[MMDad]

...how we got into a mess is the blueprint for the most logical process of getting out.

I wish I knew the answer to that one. I'd be running for president right now.

Once she's knocked up, you can't un-#### her. We can't just undo what we've done and expect our problems to go away.

 

[Larry Gude]

This is not...

I wish I knew the answer to that one. I'd be running for president right now.

Once she's knocked up, you can't un-#### her. We can't just undo what we've done and expect our problems to go away.

...a pregnancy. What's done is done. Pregnancy follows a natural progression. War follows what man wills. You either get on with it, let it peter out or keep doing the same things that are not working.

We should start withdrawing now. That is what we should do. We are occupying a foreign nation that has everything it needs to secure itself; money, resources, man power, infrastructure. All they lack is the will. Like a child with a parent steadying them down the street on a bicycle, we are enabling the situation to putter along. It's time to put on their little helmet and elbow pads and let go.

 

[Kerad]

Why does it have to be limited to America....

Because that's the question I asked.

Asked in response to the flawed idea that the US should occupy more countries to prevent the suicide bombers from coming to America.

 

[Kerad]

Kerad and stool shot down in flames again. Yall are some meam mutha's.

:snort:

 

[PsyOps]

Because that's the question I asked.

Asked in response to the flawed idea that the US should occupy more countries to prevent the suicide bombers from coming to America.

I see, so the growing radicalism of Islam has everything to do with the US and nothing to do with it's real history; their growing hatred for Jews and the infidel? No matter what context you try to put this in (blame America for everything) you can't ignore history.

 

[PsyOps]

We should start withdrawing now. That is what we should do. We are occupying a foreign nation that has everything it needs to secure itself; money, resources, man power, infrastructure. All they lack is the will. Like a child with a parent steadying them down the street on a bicycle, we are enabling the situation to putter along. It's time to put on their little helmet and elbow pads and let go.

We are not occupying a nation. We are there as a security force and to combat al Qaeda.

But, I agree... let's pull out. Let Obama get in the WH, pull us out then watch the place fall to Iran and al Qaeda then have Obama back-pedal and put us right back in there. Then we'll see that Iraq will suddenly become a righteous cause.

 

[Kerad]

I see, so the growing radicalism of Islam has everything to do with the US and nothing to do with it's real history; their growing hatred for Jews and the infidel? No matter what context you try to put this in (blame America for everything) you can't ignore history.

I'm not blaming anybody for anything.


You appear to be having some imaginary argument about something.

 

[Larry Gude]

I know...

We are not occupying a nation. We are there as a security force and to combat al Qaeda.

...you don't believe that. I know you're not going to contradict Petraeus and Crocker.

AQ is Sunni; Absent us, they're doomed. The Iran backed Shi'as will run them out. With us, many Arabs can see them as a lesser evil than American occupation. Even then, they've worn out their welcome. That's pretty bad when brother Arabs turn against you in favor of the Great Satan.

 

[Larry Gude]

If you...

We are not occupying a nation. We are there as a security force and to combat al Qaeda.

But, I agree... let's pull out. Let Obama get in the WH, pull us out then watch the place fall to Iran and al Qaeda then have Obama back-pedal and put us right back in there. Then we'll see that Iraq will suddenly become a righteous cause.

...think President Obama is going to be able to send an armed US trooper to the Canary Islands, I think you're not appreciating the larger landscape that he has laid. He's crippled himself before even winning the primary.

 

[PsyOps]

...you don't believe that. I know you're not going to contradict Petraeus and Crocker.

AQ is Sunni; Absent us, they're doomed. The Iran backed Shi'as will run them out. With us, many Arabs can see them as a lesser evil than American occupation. Even then, they've worn out their welcome. That's pretty bad when brother Arabs turn against you in favor of the Great Satan.

Either way you stack it, Iraq falls. I'm nearly inclided to give up on this and say "have it your way Barack/liberals" pull out. Let the chips fall. But as I've said before, then suddenly the whole thing will miraculously become a noble cause. The left will sing a whole new song of liberation and democracy for the mid-east.

 

[PsyOps]

If you think President Obama is going to be able to send an armed US trooper to the Canary Islands, I think you're not appreciating the larger landscape that he has laid. He's crippled himself before even winning the primary.

I guess you forgot his "take the fight to Pakistan" speech.

"When I am president, we will wage the war that has to be won. The first step must be to get off the wrong battlefield in Iraq and take the fight to the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan."

When Iraq begins to fall to Iran there will be not only domestic pressure to get back in there, there will also be international pressure. In my estimation, this whole "we have to get out of Iraq" bit is nothing more than political maneuvering by the left to seize control of the situation. They aren't going to have any GOPers taking credit for winning this war. They want it.

 

[awpitt]

I'd call my congressman and suggest it, but since he's a commie (D), odds are he won't see the brilliance of your plan.

That's an intelligent statemant.

 

[Larry Gude]

*Guffaw*

When Iraq begins to fall to Iran there will be not only domestic pressure to get back in there, there will also be international pressure. In my estimation, this whole "we have to get out of Iraq" bit is nothing more than political maneuvering by the left to seize control of the situation. They aren't going to have any GOPers taking credit for winning this war. They want it.

I got news for you, pal. Iraq has already fallen to Iran and they owe it all to us for getting rid of Saddam and the Ba'aths, setting the Kurds up as semi-autonomous and marginalizing the Sunni's. They operate directly against us militarily, train Iraqi's, Shia Iraqi's, in the fine art of blowing things up without killing yourself and hold advanced courses for the same fine folks in the art of the mortar tube in addition to graduate level studies in shaped explosives.
And, as noted by Sec State, their #1 extra governmental goomba spends a fair amount of time in Iran itself just chillin'.

Wonder if we'll get a thank you card?

 

[Pete]

They operate directly against us militarily, train Iraqi's, Shia Iraqi's, in the fine art of blowing things up without killing yourself and hold advanced courses for the same fine folks in the art of the mortar tube in addition to graduate level studies in shaped explosives.

I got a video the other day that proves they are not very good at this. 5 insurgents are standing all in a circle around and trying to dig up a 150mm shell they planted as an IED to move it to a better spot.

dig dig dig shake shake pry pry dig dig BOOM

 

[MMDad]

I got news for you, pal. Iraq has already fallen to Iran and they owe it all to us for getting rid of Saddam and the Ba'aths, setting the Kurds up as semi-autonomous and marginalizing the Sunni's. They operate directly against us militarily, train Iraqi's, Shia Iraqi's, in the fine art of blowing things up without killing yourself and hold advanced courses for the same fine folks in the art of the mortar tube in addition to graduate level studies in shaped explosives.
And, as noted by Sec State, their #1 extra governmental goomba spends a fair amount of time in Iran itself just chillin'.

Wonder if we'll get a thank you card?

You know, pulling out and letting Iran have Iraq just might be viable. They have a government and standing army. Let them take it over. They'll be so busy administering Iraq that they won't have time or money for sabre rattling and WMD development.

It makes Iran think they've won something, when in fact we've saddled them with an albatross. Let them fail, their fundie government gets overthrown and replaced by a government we can actually work with.

Oil prices will skyrocket, but that will drive the world to either free up supply or develop real, viable alternatives. By the time the dust clears, that region will no longer have a stranglehold on us.

Maybe Obama is right? Maybe cut and run can work?

 

[MMDad]

That's an intelligent statemant.

They aren't commies (D) , they're socialists (D).

 

[Larry Gude]

Yeah...

I got a video the other day that proves they are not very good at this. 5 insurgents are standing all in a circle around and trying to dig up a 150mm shell they planted as an IED to move it to a better spot.

dig dig dig shake shake pry pry dig dig BOOM

...and there are a WHOLE bunch of videos that show a few of them seem to have gotten pretty good at it.

 

[aps45819]

You know, pulling out and letting Iran have Iraq just might be viable. They have a government and standing army. Let them take it over. They'll be so busy administering Iraq that they won't have time or money for sabre rattling and WMD development.

It makes Iran think they've won something, when in fact we've saddled them with an albatross. Let them fail, their fundie government gets overthrown and replaced by a government we can actually work with

why would they fail? They're not restricted by our sense of fair play.

 

[Larry Gude]

Think about that...

It makes Iran think they've won something, when in fact we've saddled them with an albatross. Let them fail, their fundie government gets overthrown and replaced by a government we can actually work with.

...for a moment; if you believe Iraq, a predominately Shia nation and next door neighbor to Iran would be an albatross around their necks, what the flying hell are we doing over there???

We have straddled a fence; we are neither taking over Iraq nor are we simply liberators. We have been doing this in between, nether world thing of, as I've said time and again, rebuilding a house while it is on fire. I suppose it may work, one day, depending on what 'work' means. Thing is, we live in a free nation where elected leaders get 4-8 years to lead and that is IT. It is profoundly un-American to expect successive administrations to believe in and/or support the same things as the prior one. That doesn't mean a Truman should change course nor does it mean an Obama/Clinton or McCain must keep the same one.