What would you do?

[2ndAmendment]

Do you know?

excerpt from DAILY DEVOTIONAL MONDAY SEPTEMBER 4, 2006

***CONVERT TO ISLAM! Today's Devotional deals with the Fox News
reporter and cameraman who were forced to "convert" to Islam at gunpoint,
and the week of 9/11 will be a special series of Devotionals on Islam,
Israel, and the Middle East. Over the weekend, a new video was released
where al-Qaida's No. 2 leader, Ayman al-Zawahri, called on Americans to
convert to Islam. He said, "To the American people and the people of the
West in general ... God sent his Prophet Muhammad with guidance and the
religion of truth ... and sent him as a herald." An American al-Qaida
activist who also appeared in the video stated, "Christianity as a hollow
shell of a religion, whose followers cling to an empty faith and a false
conviction in their own salvation." Lest you think the question I pose in
the Devotional today is unrealistic, the day may be coming sooner than
anyone thinks when it could become one YOU might have to answer for real.



Would you renounce Jesus to save your life? Last weekend came the wonderful
news and answer to many prayers that Fox News reporter Steve Centanni and
his cameraman Olaf Wiig were released after being abducted at gunpoint two
weeks earlier while reporting from the Gaza Strip. One element of their
release that has not even been mentioned in all of their many post-release
interviews was the fact that just prior to being set free, both Centanni and
Wiig were forced at gunpoint to be video taped in Muslim robes and
converting to Islam (Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2Sx9YCZW_g ).
My question to you today is if you were put in the same position Centanni
and Wiig were, told with a gun pointed to your head to convert to Islam or
be killed, what would you do?

For the record, I spoke with numerous people at Fox News last week trying to
find out what faith, if any, Centanni and Wiig claimed to have and nobody
could tell me. Their personal faith is not the issue, only the fact they
were forced under the threat of death to "convert" to Islam. In the one
brief comment about their "conversion" after being released, Centanni
states, ""We were forced to convert to Islam at gunpoint. Don't get me wrong
here. I have the highest respect for Islam, and I learned a lot of good
things about it, but it was something we felt we had to do because they had
the guns, and we didn't know what the hell was going on." So they both
clearly felt they would be killed if they did not do exactly what their
captors demanded they do.

Let me say right up front, I know most who are reading this will answer that
you would gladly die for your faith in Jesus. The fact is, unless you are
actually in a situation where a gun is being pointed to your head with the
threat of being killed, you may know what you HOPE your answer is, but
really don't know until that moment if you would actually die for your
faith. There are many good reasons you can name to do whatever is necessary
to stay alive. Your family needs you, God will understand, all very valid.
It still goes back to the question, if you were forced to renounce Christ
and embrace a false god to stay alive, would you?

...

 

[Larry Gude]

Ok...

...do I have this straight?

They were forced, under threat of death, to claim an allegiance to a given set of beliefs...yet have the highest respect for that faith.

Let me guess; Another faith, which has no one threatening your life if you don't profess fealty to it, well, gosh, they have an EVEN HIGHER respect for it, right?

Love to know.

 

[Pandora]

...do I have this straight?

They were forced, under threat of death, to claim an allegiance to a given set of beliefs...yet have the highest respect for that faith.

Let me guess; Another faith, which has no one threatening your life if you don't profess fealty to it, well, gosh, they have an EVEN HIGHER respect for it, right?

Love to know.

I understood they were FORCED to proclaim Islam as their faith or be killed and I thought the same thing. I have no respect for those people anyway and now I even have less, if that is at all possible.

The question here is tough, would you proclaim Islam as your religion with a gun pointed to your head, when you are a Christian?

My first thought is my children, the rest of the world doesn’t matter, only them, they are the most important to me, and if they were small still as young as they are now, I would want to be with them. Or at least take the chance that I could be reunited with them. That is where the complication is. If it was just me, my kids were grown, just take my life, but even with that said, it is hard to judge what you'd do when those shoes are not on your feet.

If the reporters had not proclaimed Islam then they might not be alive to tell the story and I doubt we would know why they are dead.

Now, we know the way those people will FORCE their religion on people.

 

[Penn]

The faith and believer part of me says: "Yes, I would defy those who held a gun to my head, and told me to convert or die."

The human part of me replies: "You really don't know what you would do, if you were forced into a situation like that, now do you?"

Simple, you'd be forced to martyr yourself for God and The Christ.

Talk about hard choices.....................

 

[brendar buhl]

These people were forced to lie at gun point. This does not make them Muslim any more that saying you believe in Jesus makes you Christian. If they were Christians then they are still Christian now, even after they were forced to make a false statement. I don't think that anyone should question their faith. There are a lot of macho Christian men who would lead you to believe that this statement nullified their faith but that sounds like pride talk to me.

 

[dems4me]

The faith and believer part of me says: "Yes, I would defy those who held a gun to my head, and told me to convert or die."

The human part of me replies: "You really don't know what you would do, if you were forced into a situation like that, now do you?"

Simple, you'd be forced to martyr yourself for God and The Christ.

Talk about hard choices.....................

Well said. You too Pandora.

 

[Barnacle]

The faith and believer part of me says: "Yes, I would defy those who held a gun to my head, and told me to convert or die."

The human part of me replies: "You really don't know what you would do, if you were forced into a situation like that, now do you?"

Simple, you'd be forced to martyr yourself for God and The Christ.

Talk about hard choices.....................

I've been thinking a lot about that myself. Is it different than Peter denying Christ? Is it different than not denying God and being thrown into the den of lions or the fiery furnace? God knows the hearts of those reporters, and He can judge them if He chooses. Quite the moral dilemma!

 

[2ndAmendment]

Hard choice is true from the human. Me too. But Jesus said some of us would be tested, even to death as the last days come upon us.

Matthew 24
Signs of Christ's Return
1Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him.

2And He said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down."

3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

4And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.

5"For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.

6"You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.

7"For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.

8"But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.

9"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.

10"At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.

11"Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.

12"Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.

13"But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

14"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Perilous Times
15"Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

17"Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.

18"Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.

19"But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!

20"But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.

21"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

22"Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

23"Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.

24"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

25"Behold, I have told you in advance.

26"So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.

27"For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

28"Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
The Glorious Return
29"But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

30"And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

31"And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Parable of the Fig Tree
32"Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near;

33so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.

34"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

35"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

36"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

37"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.

38"For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,

39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

40"Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.

41"Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
Be Ready for His Coming
42"Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.

43"But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.

44"For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

45"Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time?

46"Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.

47"Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

48"But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,'

49and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards;

50the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know,

51and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Also notice verses 21-31 for those that believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. Jesus didn't teach a pre-tribulation coming of the Son of Man.

 

[2ndAmendment]

These people were forced to lie at gun point. This does not make them Muslim any more that saying you believe in Jesus makes you Christian. If they were Christians then they are still Christian now, even after they were forced to make a false statement. I don't think that anyone should question their faith. There are a lot of macho Christian men who would lead you to believe that this statement nullified their faith but that sounds like pride talk to me.

Then how do you explain this?

Matthew 10:32-34

32"Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven.

33"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

34"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I've been thinking a lot about that myself. Is it different than Peter denying Christ? Is it different than not denying God and being thrown into the den of lions or the fiery furnace? God knows the hearts of those reporters, and He can judge them if He chooses. Quite the moral dilemma!

Not the same. Jesus lead Peter to affirm his faith in Jesus three times just as Peter had denied Jesus three times.

Matthew 26:75And Peter remembered the word which Jesus had said, "Before a rooster crows, you will deny Me three times." And he went out and wept bitterly.

John 21:15-17

15So when they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than these?" He said to Him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I love You " He said to him, "Tend My lambs."

16He said to him again a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love Me?" He said to Him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I love You." He said to him, "Shepherd My sheep."

17He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You " Jesus said to him, "Tend My sheep.

Have these two professed their faith in Jesus? I know of nowhere they have. Maybe they will. But won't that make them targets of Islam?

If you die in your denial of Jesus, what then? You have no way of publicly proclaiming your faith again and seeking forgiveness.

 

[Penn]

All hypothetical, but as I ponder this predicament, I might ask of my captors:

"You must well know of my religion and my faith in my God. You should also know that my faith and religion would never require you to forcefully deny your faith in your God."

"Why would you then demand this of me?"

I might not hear the response, but I wish I could hear it.

 

[2ndAmendment]

As for Daniel in the lion's den (Daniel 6) and Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego being thrown into the furnace (Daniel 3), they chose the possibility of death rather than deny God. I pray that the Holy Spirit gives me that courage if faced with such a decision.

 

[jp2854]

Here's another quick update I just talked to my mom and the nurse just came out and said they only had to do 4 bypasses and they are putting things back in place and sewing him up. The doctor will be out in 1hr to talk to my mom and grandma and uncle. I am just so glad my grandpa made it through this surgery now he just has a long road to recovery. Thanks all for your prayers and please keep him in them for a while as he has a long road to recovery.

 

[2ndAmendment]

All hypothetical, but as I ponder this predicament, I might ask of my captors:

"You must well know of my religion and my faith in my God. You should also know that my faith and religion would never require you to forcefully deny your faith in your God."

"Why would you then demand this of me?"

I might not hear the response, but I wish I could hear it.

I like the response of Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego.

Daniel 3:16-18

16Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego replied to the king, "O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to give you an answer concerning this matter.

17"If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire; and He will deliver us out of your hand, O king.

18"But even if He does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we are not going to serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up."

 

[2ndAmendment]

Here's another quick update I just talked to my mom and the nurse just came out and said they only had to do 4 bypasses and they are putting things back in place and sewing him up. The doctor will be out in 1hr to talk to my mom and grandma and uncle. I am just so glad my grandpa made it through this surgery now he just has a long road to recovery. Thanks all for your prayers and please keep him in them for a while as he has a long road to recovery.

 

[brendar buhl]

Then how do you explain this?

Matthew 10:32-34

32"Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven.

33"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

I don't have to explain that. You brought it up, why don't you give it a try. Are you saying that if you can trick someone into saying that they are Christian then that makes them Christian? Isn't it the heart of man that matters. The bulk of a mans words come out of the overflow of his heart but not those extracted by torture or at gun point. If I love Jesus then my entire life will be a confession to him. The Crusaders were good at twisting that very scripture!

 

[Pandora]

Hard choice is true from the human. Me too. But Jesus said some of us would be tested, even to death as the last days come upon us. Also notice verses 21-31 for those that believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. Jesus didn't teach a pre-tribulation coming of the Son of Man.

I’ve never heard of a pre-tribulation either, only the tribulation period
2 Thessalonians 2:3 says;

"Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs.

1 Timothy 4:1

"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.”

And in Luke 18:8

“When the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

I mentioned this in the other thread this morning. Right now the Islam faith is growing beyond Christianity according to “something” I read a few months back, I just don’t remember where I read it and if it was more current that this chart,
http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm from 2000, we may already be in the rebellion period?

America is NOT mentioned in the bible, but we’ve backed Israel, without us, Israel would have succumbed to their enemies a long time ago. Not that we in America are saints, but we have been what has kept them afloat with money and weapons. In the end of the world, America will not be the boss we are now. We really don’t know what will become of us here in America but lets hope it is the rapture and not a nuke.

 

[oldman]

2A, IMHO you're making this to simplistic and not leaving much room. As a Christian, under those circumstances, I would "say" whatever they wanted me to. My saying it is only words. I would like to believe that God listens to what's in my heart over what may come out of my mouth.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I don't have to explain that. You brought it up, why don't you give it a try. Are you saying that if you can trick someone into saying that they are Christian then that makes them Christian? Isn't it the heart of man that matters. The bulk of a mans words come out of the overflow of his heart but not those extracted by torture or at gun point. If I love Jesus then my entire life will be a confession to him. The Crusaders were good at twisting that very scripture!

No. Come on. No one can trick you into being a Christian. Being a Christian is having a personal relationship with Jesus. Anything else is just fluff.

Matthew 13:3-9, 18-23

3And He spoke many things to them in parables, saying, "Behold, the sower went out to sow;

4and as he sowed, some seeds fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate them up.

5"Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and immediately they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil.

6"But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

7"Others fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out.

8"And others fell on the good soil and yielded a crop, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.

9"He who has ears, let him hear."


...

18"Hear then the parable of the sower.

19"When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road.

20"The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;

21yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.

22"And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

23"And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."

Some believe but don't keep their belief. Those that would deny Jesus under threat of death, or worse for me, threat of death of their wife or child, are the seed that fell among the thorns and got choked out.

The account of Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego, Daniel, the persecution and death of the disciples, the example of the early Christians willingly going to their death in the Roman Coliseum are all there as our examples of what our response must be.

I am not the one who said nor do I have the authority to. Jesus is the one who set the standard.

Matthew 24:13"But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Jesus went to the cross rather than deny the truth of God. It was all part of God's plan. Christians are called to take up our own cross. If that cross involves making a choice of death or rejection of Jesus, the Bible dictates the proper choice.

 

[2ndAmendment]

2A, IMHO you're making this to simplistic and not leaving much room. As a Christian, under those circumstances, I would "say" whatever they wanted me to. My saying it is only words. I would like to believe that God listens to what's in my heart over what may come out of my mouth.

I don't think the Bible gives any room.

Romans 10:9-13

9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

11For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

13for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

I can only go by what the Bible says. If what I wish was right conflicts with what is in the Bible, then what I wish is wrong and what the Bible says is right. It is that simple for me.

I am not saying the decision would be easy. I am just stating what the Bible says the proper response is. As I posted earlier, I pray that the Holy Spirit would give me the courage to not reject Jesus.

Remember this. All are appointed to die once. It does not matter if it is from cancer, heart attack, old age, car accident, plane crash, or a Islamic bullet; we will all die. The second death is what I want to avoid (Rev. 20:6). The first death, dying in this world, is nothing but graduation day for a Christian. I would rather be praising Jesus with my dying breath than accept a false god to preserve this life.