What would you do?

[2ndAmendment]

Yes, I will agree that this is during the tribulation period, because Paul points to a squence of events that must occur before that period.

1. The Rebelion - which I spoke about earlier in this thread AND

2. The removal of the restrainer. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 talks about this

6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.

Wouldn't Christians be what holds it back? So, we would have to be gone? Imagine if there is nobody on earth to say "that's not right." "That is immoral"

Then there is the deception of the antichrist in the same book of Thessalonians 2:3 saying he is WITHOUT LAW. Daniel says, he will confirm a covenant with many for one seven. In the middle of the seven he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. (Daniel 9:27) Satan wants the world to worship him and this is clear in Thessalonias.

9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.


^ He'll be believable, able to perform miracles, signs and wonders but in the end he will be destroyed. Satan will return to earth in human form. People think this will be a peace contract with the middle east in some form that he will break. He will declare he IS God.


4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.


There is so much I don't nor will ever understand.

You may be right that it is the Christians, but the Bible says there is a spiritual war going on that we are part of. I think it is the archangel Michael and his angels as in Revelation 12 that are holding satan back.

You will understand perfectly in God's perfect time just as I will.

 

[Nicole_in_somd]

I feel that the Bible is guidance for spiritual wisdom inspired by God but was still written by human beings which has been translated numerous amount of times. So I am not really sure yet that all of the Bible has come through its multiple translations with the same meaning it was written.

The Hebrew Bible was originally written in Hebrew, Jesus spoke in Aramaic, and the Christian Testament was written in Greek. Then the Bible was translated into Latin, after that into old English, followed by the dozens of English translations we now have available today King James Version, New Revised Standard Version and so on.

Biblical interpretation, like scientific interpretation, is subject to ambiguity, to contradiction, to cultural relativity, and to misleading directions. In the Bible divorce was first allowable by Moses, then condemned by God and yet again permitted by Jesus on grounds of adultery only with Paul permitting it with additional grounds.

The Bible is a collection of books, written over hundreds of years by different authors in different communities with different agendas. The authors were people just like us and being human means that they were fallible, who had a widely diverse background and strong supposition and beliefs during the time they were writing. Two creation stories Gen. 1:1-2:4 and Gen. 2:5ff cinflict with one another and there are 3 different versions of the 10 Commandments Deut. 5, Exod 20, and Exod 34 and even the gospels illustrate inconsistent accounts of the year of Jesus' birth among many other things.

I think the Bible is a personal interpretation and journey that is going to be somewhat unique for each person. I don’t know but I plan to keep reading and learning.

 

[brendar buhl]

I just don't think that I would condemn someone to hell, or even question someones faith based on my inturpretation of one verse of scripture. The human mind is unparalleled in it's ability to misunderstand and distort.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I feel that the Bible is guidance for spiritual wisdom inspired by God but was still written by human beings which has been translated numerous amount of times. So I am not really sure yet that all of the Bible has come through its multiple translations with the same meaning it was written.

The Hebrew Bible was originally written in Hebrew, Jesus spoke in Aramaic, and the Christian Testament was written in Greek. Then the Bible was translated into Latin, after that into old English, followed by the dozens of English translations we now have available today King James Version, New Revised Standard Version and so on.

Biblical interpretation, like scientific interpretation, is subject to ambiguity, to contradiction, to cultural relativity, and to misleading directions. In the Bible divorce was first allowable by Moses, then condemned by God and yet again permitted by Jesus on grounds of adultery only with Paul permitting it with additional grounds.

The Bible is a collection of books, written over hundreds of years by different authors in different communities with different agendas. The authors were people just like us and being human means that they were fallible, who had a widely diverse background and strong supposition and beliefs during the time they were writing. Two creation stories Gen. 1:1-2:4 and Gen. 2:5ff cinflict with one another and there are 3 different versions of the 10 Commandments Deut. 5, Exod 20, and Exod 34 and even the gospels illustrate inconsistent accounts of the year of Jesus' birth among many other things.

I think the Bible is a personal interpretation and journey that is going to be somewhat unique for each person. I don’t know but I plan to keep reading and learning.

You repeat yourself. See http://forums.somd.com/showpost.php?p=1669581&postcount=111

 

[2ndAmendment]

I just don't think that I would condemn someone to hell, or even question someones faith based on my inturpretation of one verse of scripture. The human mind is unparalleled in it's ability to misunderstand and distort.

It is not a humans job in this life to condemn anyone to hell. That is God's job. Faith is what it is. Some have faith in evolution. Some have faith in the Bible. Some have faith in Ozzie.

James 2:18-20

18But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

19You believe that God is one You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

Even satan and his demons know that God is one. Does how one lives their life reflect what they say they believe?

 

[brendar buhl]

Does how one lives their life reflect what they say they believe?

Yes, your life reflects your faith. How do we live our faith and how should that be measured? If a man helps others and loves God and his brother we can assume that this is a man of faith. Then we can put a gun to his head and make sure of it. I think that even questioning the faith of someone who has been placed in such a horrible situation comes of as a little boastful. Don't get me wrong, these things are worth pondering but no one knows what they would do in that situation.

 

[Penn]

Yes, your life reflects your faith. How do we live our faith and how should that be measured?

If a man helps others and loves God and his brother we can assume that this is a man of faith.

Then we can put a gun to his head and make sure of it. I think that even questioning the faith of someone who has been placed in such a horrible situation comes of as a little boastful. Don't get me wrong, these things are worth pondering but no one knows what they would do in that situation.

See my reply in post# 4.

I've given it some thought, and I'm still not sure. And, I'm not being boastful.

 

[Nicole_in_somd]

You repeat yourself. See http://forums.somd.com/showpost.php?p=1669581&postcount=111

Yes, it applied to this post as well or at least I thought so, thanks.

 

[Nicole_in_somd]

Yes, your life reflects your faith. How do we live our faith and how should that be measured? If a man helps others and loves God and his brother we can assume that this is a man of faith. Then we can put a gun to his head and make sure of it. I think that even questioning the faith of someone who has been placed in such a horrible situation comes of as a little boastful. Don't get me wrong, these things are worth pondering but no one knows what they would do in that situation.

I have to disagree that is the time when your faith really shows. If you truly believe than you will know what you would do. Death will come to us all at one time or another.

I would not want to go out denying Christ to try and save my life, to me that would be like selling out your father or mother, if the gunman gave you a choice and said i will kill you or your child or your parent would your love be enough to sarcarfice yourself for them?

Not the same thing I know but close IMO. If you love something and have true faith in it then it will come naturally. At least that is how I feel about it.

I guess if I devoted my life in God and then why would I not have faith that in the end it will work out? that is what my life was dedicated to right?

I would not be able to deny Christ or God just to buy more time here on earth, not that I am a fan on dying but I cannot see myself selling Christ out.

 

[brendar buhl]

I have to disagree that is the time when your faith really shows. If you truly believe than you will know what you would do. Death will come to us all at one time or another.

I would not want to go out denying Christ to try and save my life, to me that would be like selling out your father or mother, if the gunman gave you a choice and said i will kill you or your child or your parent would your love be enough to sarcarfice yourself for them?

Not the same thing I know but close IMO. If you love something and have true faith in it then it will come naturally. At least that is how I feel about it.

I guess if I devoted my life in God and then why would I not have faith that in the end it will work out? that is what my life was dedicated to right?

I would not be able to deny Christ or God just to buy more time here on earth, not that I am a fan on dying but I cannot see myself selling Christ out.

Your faith must be amazingly strong...I hope it never gets tested.

 

[Midnightrider]

I have to disagree that is the time when your faith really shows. If you truly believe than you will know what you would do. Death will come to us all at one time or another.

I would not want to go out denying Christ to try and save my life, to me that would be like selling out your father or mother, if the gunman gave you a choice and said i will kill you or your child or your parent would your love be enough to sarcarfice yourself for them?

Not the same thing I know but close IMO. If you love something and have true faith in it then it will come naturally. At least that is how I feel about it.

I guess if I devoted my life in God and then why would I not have faith that in the end it will work out? that is what my life was dedicated to right?

I would not be able to deny Christ or God just to buy more time here on earth, not that I am a fan on dying but I cannot see myself selling Christ out.

isn't that kind of like commiting suicide? I am pretty sure thats against the rules of christianity. Besides, wouldn't an all knowing god know that you did it under deress and be forgiving?

 

[Toxick]

isn't that kind of like commiting suicide?

No.


It's not even close to anything that resembles suicide.

I am pretty sure thats against the rules of christianity. Besides, wouldn't an all knowing god know that you did it under deress and be forgiving?

You missed a golden opportunity. If you were going to go for the "omni" argument, you should have suggested that an omni-benevolent god would not allow his followers to fall into that position to begin with, which means that God is cruel and heartless, and therefore His followers are idiots. That would have been way more effective.



Anyway, whether He knows it was a forced denial or not is beside the point. The point is to resist turning your back on your faith even under the most dire circumstances.

 

[Nicole_in_somd]

Your faith must be amazingly strong...I hope it never gets tested.

It is tested each and every day. I can only hope that your faith becomes strong enough so when it is tested you are prepared to do the right thing.

Why would anyone spend their life saying that they are devoted in their faith and God then to turn around at the moment it all comes into play, they don't stand to their convictions is confusing me.....You benefit from God and Jesus then why would you denounce him when he would need you the most????

 

[Nicole_in_somd]

isn't that kind of like commiting suicide? I am pretty sure thats against the rules of christianity. Besides, wouldn't an all knowing god know that you did it under deress and be forgiving?

I don't see it as suicide at all. Maybe I am not understanding the connection, could you explain?

 

[Midnightrider]

No.


It's not even close to anything that resembles suicide.

if there is a simple method to save your life and you refuse, then you are choosing death, thats an awful lot like suicide to me. Kind of like the now popular suicide by cop.

You missed a golden opportunity. If you were going to go for the "omni" argument, you should have suggested that an omni-benevolent god would not allow his followers to fall into that position to begin with, which means that God is cruel and heartless, and therefore His followers are idiots. That would have been way more effective.



Anyway, whether He knows it was a forced denial or not is beside the point. The point is to resist turning your back on your faith even under the most dire circumstances.

I'm not trying to be mean to those that believe, and mocking their faith isn't my style, but, and i do belive that if there is an all knowing god, that he would accept your forced conversion for what it was....

 

[Nicole_in_somd]

No.


It's not even close to anything that resembles suicide.






You missed a golden opportunity. If you were going to go for the "omni" argument, you should have suggested that an omni-benevolent god would not allow his followers to fall into that position to begin with, which means that God is cruel and heartless, and therefore His followers are idiots. That would have been way more effective.



Anyway, whether He knows it was a forced denial or not is beside the point. The point is to resist turning your back on your faith even under the most dire circumstances.

I agree with this post 100%. Great wording.

 

[Nicole_in_somd]

if there is a simple method to save your life and you refuse, then you are choosing death, thats an awful lot like suicide to me. Kind of like the now popular suicide by cop.




I'm not trying to be mean to those that believe, and mocking their faith isn't my style, but, and i do belive that if there is an all knowing god, that he would accept your forced conversion for what it was....

I still don't see it as that. You are going to die one way or another someday.
If you were to take your own life then yes but that is not the case.

 

[Midnightrider]

I still don't see it as that. You are going to die one way or another someday.
If you were to take your own life then yes but that is not the case.

the dying one day doesn't matter to the arguement. the thing is, you have a way to keep yourself from dying, and the only thing that is going to keep you from doing it is pride. why else wouldn't you placate the religious zealot who was holding you, knowing in your heart, that what you believe is true? If you know what you believe, the words that come out of your mouth are immaterial. A a just god would understand your deliema.

If you don't save your own life in that circumstance, then you have choosen to die.

 

[Nicole_in_somd]

the dying one day doesn't matter to the arguement. the thing is, you have a way to keep yourself from dying, and the only thing that is going to keep you from doing it is pride. why else wouldn't you placate the religious zealot who was holding you, knowing in your heart, that what you believe is true? If you know what you believe, the words that come out of your mouth are immaterial. A a just god would understand your deliema.

If you don't save your own life in that circumstance, then you have choosen to die.

Because by doing so you deny christ. Life and death does play into this. Pride????? No not pride devotion to your faith.

What would my life be worth without Christ? I have a child too, but her faith in Christ is more important to her eternal souls than my temporary position as her mother. He died for me so how can I deny Christ after everythng he has done for me?

I would NOT convert or even lie about it, and my dying breath would be spent proclaiming God’s truth. Would I be terrified? With no doubt! But it is written: “Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.” - Matthew 10:32,33

I want to be reunited with God in Heaven through Christ and by living the best life I can and prove out of my belief in, and love for, Jesus Christ.

 

[Midnightrider]

Because by doing so you deny christ. Life and death does play into this. Pride????? No not pride devotion to your faith.

What would my life be worth without Christ? I have a child too, but her faith in Christ is more important to her eternal souls than my temporary position as her mother. He died for me so how can I deny Christ after everythng he has done for me?

I would NOT convert or even lie about it, and my dying breath would be spent proclaiming God’s truth. Would I be terrified? With no doubt! But it is written: “Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.” - Matthew 10:32,33

I want to be reunited with God in Heaven through Christ and by living the best life I can and prove out of my belief in, and love for, Jesus Christ.

The pride part is that you have to be right, and are willing to accept death, and leave your child motherless rather than even be precieved as having less than total faith in your lord. If you truely have total faith, then what does it matter what other PEOPLE think. God will already know the truth- what ever that truth is....