Where did Evil come from?

[Kain99]

Originally posted by Christy
I feel pretty blessed to have the life I have.

Maybe I'm not communicating my thoughts well.

It wasn't until I was much older that I realized that human beings were all just as fragile. Life is what you make of it, but that doesn't stop the credit card company from hijacking your interest rates.

 

[vraiblonde]

Penn sez:
I think it was a choice Judas thought he had to make;

It wasn't Judas' choice - the birth of Christ, the betrayal and the crucifixion were foretold in the OT. Definitely a case of "God's Plan". As far as him hanging himself, I have no problem with that being God's will as well.

Citizen sez:
By the way, vraiblonde, I think I would let you do my taxes now.

Thanks...I think

The AA folks have a saying - "Let Go and Let God". It's a philosophy very similar to the Serenity Prayer (God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...) While I don't believe in God as a separate entity from our own selves, I think that saying has merit. Too many people try to force things that they have no control over and it's because they refuse to see the big picture - only the little one that's right in front of them.

 

[Penn]

I think you missed my point..

Originally posted by vraiblonde
It wasn't Judas' choice - the birth of Christ, the betrayal and the crucifixion were foretold in the OT. Definitely a case of "God's Plan". As far as him hanging himself, I have no problem with that being God's will as well.

What I was getting at was Judas' decision to take his own life(Mark 27), once he realized what he had set in motion. He may have taken it on a personal level - the consequences that unfolded once he began to conspire with a scholar/religious leader who was a member of the Pharisees.

The Old Testament does describe the events that take place in Gospels of the New Testament, (Isaiah 53), however I do not know if Judas' suicide was part of God's plan.

It's not that I would be surprised, but I think Judas' decision was a product of his own choosing, caused by his guilt at Jesus' Condemnation and Crucifixion.

I don't believe he thought it would go that far - Jesus' death. Then, his own deeply held grief led him to the choice he made.

 

[Christy]

Originally posted by Kain99
Maybe I'm not communicating my thoughts well.

It wasn't until I was much older that I realized that human beings were all just as fragile. Life is what you make of it, but that doesn't stop the credit card company from hijacking your interest rates.

I look at it as an incentive and a sign to get them all paid off ASAP, which I'd planned on doing, just trying to speed up the process now, so they can all kiss my

See, it's just a matter of perspective, I'm one of those the glass is half full kinda folks.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Christy
See, it's just a matter of perspective, I'm one of those the glass is half full kinda folks.

And there you have it! Something good can come out of anything if you have the right attitude.

 

[Ms. Othmar]

Another dead thread brought to life...

It wasn't Judas' choice - the birth of Christ, the betrayal and the crucifixion were foretold in the OT. Definitely a case of "God's Plan". As far as him hanging himself, I have no problem with that being God's will as well.

Thanks...I think

The AA folks have a saying - "Let Go and Let God". It's a philosophy very similar to the Serenity Prayer (God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...) While I don't believe in God as a separate entity from our own selves, I think that saying has merit. Too many people try to force things that they have no control over and it's because they refuse to see the big picture - only the little one that's right in front of them.

Sorry! I am new to the forum and am just getting around to some old threads...

Another perspective on the Judas thought...

If Judas never betrayed Jesus, would Jesus have had the opportunity to fulfill his ultimate mission? Likewise with the people who complain that "The Passion" is anti-semetic (?spell?), if the Jewish leaders agreed with Jesus, that would have kinda ruined everything, no?

So, if you are a Christian, you sort of have to be thankful for Judas and the Sanhedrin, right? Isn't Good Friday ultimately a time of celebration (because we know how the story ended)??

A quote that I like is "Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you're alive, it isn't."
-- Richard Bach

Judas might have killed himself because on a soul-uler level he might have known that his mission was complete. If, for instance, he was depressed and killed himself a week earlier, that would have thrown a monkey wrench into the whole system.

Bottom line: You can't judge a book by only one page and you can't really judge whether something is good or bad without knowing how the future will turn out.

Think about going off a diving board... in order to bounce really high, the board has to dip really low.

What if the "bad things" that happen in your life are really stepping stones to a higher purpose? Would you then be happy (or happier) when something "bad" happens?

Like the guy I hear on the radio, "Not a sermon, just a thought."

 

[Ms. Othmar]

A story about judgement...

This story happened in the days of Lao Tzu in China, and Lao Tzu loved it very much:

There was an old man in a village, very poor, but even kings were jealous of him because he had a beautiful white horse. Kings offered fabulous prizes for the horse, but the man would say, "This horse is not a horse to me, he is a person. And how can you sell a person, a friend?" The man was poor, but he never sold the horse.

One morning he found that the horse was not in the stable. The whole village gathered and said, "You foolish old man! We knew that someday the horse would be stolen. It would have been better to sell it. What a misfortune!"

The old man said, "Don't go so far as to say that. Simply say that the horse is not in the stable. This is the fact; everything else is judgment. Whether it is a misfortune or a blessing I don't know, because this is just a fragment. Who knows what is going to follow it?"

People laughed at the old man. They had always known he was a little crazy. But after fifteen days, suddenly one night the horse returned. He had not been stolen, he had escaped into the wild. And not only that he had brought a dozen wild horses with him.

Again the people gathered and they said, "Old man, you were right. This was not a misfortune, it has indeed proved to be a blessing."

The old man said, "Again you are going too far. Just say that the horse is back... who knows whether it is a blessing or not?" It is only a fragment. You read a single word in a sentence - how can you judge the whole book?"

This time the people could not say much, but inside they knew that he was wrong. Twelve beautiful horses had come.

The old man had an only son who started to train the horses. Just a week later he fell from a horse and his legs were broken. The people gathered again and again they judged. They said, "Again you proved right! It was a misfortune. your only son has lost the use of his legs, and in your old age he was your only support. Now you are poorer than ever."

The old man said, "You are obsessed with judgment. Don't go that far. Say only that my son had broken his legs. Life comes in fragments and more is never given to you."

It happened that after a few weeks the country went to war, and all the young men of the town were forcibly taken for the military. Only the old man's son was left because he was crippled. The whole town was crying and weeping, because it was a losing fight and they knew that most of the young people would never come back. They came to the old man and they said, "You were right, old man - this has proved a blessing. maybe your son is crippled, but he is still with you. Our sons are gone forever."

The old man said again, "You go on and on judging. Nobody knows! Only say this, that your sons have been forced to enter the army and my son has not been forced. But only God, the total, knows whether it is a blessing or a misfortune."

Judge not, otherwise you will never become one with the total. With fragments you will be obsessed, with small things you will jump to conclusions. Once you judge you have stopped growing. Judgment means a stale state of mind. And mind always wants judgment, because to be in a process is always hazardous and uncomfortable.

In fact the journey never ends. One path ends, another begins: one door closes, another opens. You reach a peak; a higher peak is always there. God is an endless journey.

Only those who are so courageous that they don't bother about the goal but are content with the journey, content to just live in the moment and grow into it, only those are able to walk in the total.

-- Unknown

 

[Sharon]

I am new to the forum

Thou shalt not lie.

Now go say 500,000 Hail Mary's and 10K our Fathers.

 

[Ms. Othmar]

"relatively new?"

or New! and Improved! ?

 

[2ndAmendment]

This story little story has made the rounds of the Internet variously non-attributed or attributed to even Albert Einstein. I far as I know, it is just a story, but it is a good illustration of what evil is and is certainly food for thought. The statements in the story about cold/heat and dark/light are scientifically sound.

Did God Create Evil?

Did God create Evil? This will make you think for a while.

At a certain college, there was a professor with a reputation for being tough on Christians. At the first class every semester, he asked if anyone
was a Christian and proceeded to degrade them and to mock their statement of faith. One semester, he asked the question and a young man raised his hand when asked if anyone was a Christian.

The professor asked, "Did God make everything, young man?"

He replied, "Yes sir He did!"

The professor responded, "If God made everything, then He made evil."

The student didn't have a response and the professor was happy to have once again proved the Christian faith to be a myth.

Then another man raised his hand and asked, "May I ask you something, sir?"

"Yes, you may," responded the professor.

The young man stood up and said "Sir, is there such thing as cold?"

"Of course there is, what kind of question is that? Haven't you ever been cold?"

The young man replied, "Actually, sir, cold doesn't exist. What we consider to be cold, is really an absence of heat. Absolute zero is when there is absolutely no heat, but cold does not really exist. We have only created that term to describe how we feel when heat is not there."

The young man continued, "Sir, is there such a thing as dark?"

Once again, the professor responded "Of course there is."

And once again, the student replied "Actually, sir, darkness does not exist. Darkness is really only the absence of light. Darkness is only a term
man developed to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally, the young man asked, "Sir, is there such thing as evil?"

The professor responded, "Of course. We have rapes, and murders and violence everywhere in the world, those things are evil."

The student replied, "Actually, sir, evil does not exist. Evil is simply the absence of God. Evil is a term man developed to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. It isn't like truth, or love, which exist as virtues like heat or light. Evil is simply the state where God is not present, like cold without heat or darkness without light."

Now some will beg the question if God is omnipresent then isn't God everywhere? God is indeed omnipresent, but He respects our free will. We are free to reject Him from being in our lives therefore we can choose to have the lack of God in our lives and have evil by that lack of God's presence. Evil is manifest by people that choose not to have God in their lives.

____________________

 

[Hello6]

Evil exists because people exist. Evil comes from within, your own choice to do wrong and satisfy your own selfish needs or wants.

Either that or Wal Mart. I'm pretty sure Wal Mart is the current source of evil.

 

[willie]

The student replied, "Actually, sir, evil does not exist. Evil is simply the absence of God. Evil is a term man developed to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. It isn't like truth, or love, which exist as virtues like heat or light. Evil is simply the state where God is not present, like cold without heat or darkness without light."

Rather than the doubletalk that God is omnipresent, a better word would simply be " Evil is simply the absence of 'good' ".

God gives you the opportunity to be what you want and sometimes he sticks a little ignoranus in your genes for a reason we'll never understand.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Romans 5:
12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--
13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
15But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
16The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
17For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
18So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
19For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
20The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
21so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The greatest gift ever given to mankind, Jesus, and all we have to do is accept Him.


.

 

[Ms. Othmar]

This story little story has made the rounds of the Internet variously non-attributed or attributed to even Albert Einstein. I far as I know, it is just a story, but it is a good illustration of what evil is and is certainly food for thought. The statements in the story about cold/heat and dark/light are scientifically sound.

First of all 2ndA, I looooove that story. I've heard it before and enjoyed reading it again.

Secondly, you and I may never see eye to eye. (I'm ok with that. You?) I respect your opinion. That said, we may be as close to seeing eye to eye as we are right now with this story.

I would like to challenge you by giving you a (slightly?) different perspective...

Let's say for the sake of discussion that you are 6 feet tall. You know you are 6 feet tall because there are lots of things that are not 6 feet tall -- the keyboard is much smaller, your house is much taller, friends and neighbors are taller and shorter, etc. etc.

Imagine for a second if EVERYTHING were 6 feet tall... rocks, the computer, your house, your friends, blades of grass, skyscrapers, etc. etc.

You could say, "I am 6 feet tall" but your "6-feet-tall-ness" would have no meaning because there was nothing that was not 6 feet tall.

I believe that God is All There Is. Along with that "definition," I believe that God IS omnipresent and infinite and that there is no place that God is not. Free will, for me, says that, while God is in me (and you and everyone and everywhere), I can choose not to recognize it. When I choose to do this, I will act in ways that reinforces my belief that I am separate from God and from my neighbor.

I also believe that (pre-Big Bang or pre-Creation) God knew Godself as All There Is conseptionally but not experientially. (think back to the point where everything was 6 feet tall).

At the point of the Big Bang or Creation, God "split" God's Self into an infinite number of versions of Itself (while still remaining All There Is). So, God could see Godself as being Up *and* Down and everything in between, Cold *and* Hot and everything in between, etc.

So (for me), God is still All There Is and we are experiencing up/down, hot/cold, good/bad, fear/love so that God can know Godself experientially.

"Like a wave on the ocean is what the ocean is doing, we are what God is doing."
-- Dr. Wayne Dyer


THoughts? Comments?

 

[2ndAmendment]

Everyone is free, at lest so far in this country, to believe as they will. We don't see eye to eye. I will tell you that having been in an engineering group at one time that studied explosions, the "Big Bang" is not sound theory from the study of explosions in free space since the distribution of matter as observed in the observable universe is inconsistent with any explosion. That is the reason for the massive search for "dark matter" in order to try to support, a thus far, insupportable theory. I would remind you that the best human minds in the world used to theorize that the world was flat. The Bible on the other hand implied it was a sphere long before it was observed to be so by man.

I don't presume to try to understand God, my creator. Humans are incapable of understanding God just as a computer program I write is incapable of understanding me. How can a creation understand its creator? It is arrogance to think that we can. I accept what He has given as His word and understand the best my human mind can comprehend what He chooses to reveal. Faith does not come through understanding, but understanding comes through faith.

 

[somdcrab]

where did evil come from?????

We had an interesting discussion in my Adult Sunday School class this morning. It's about an age old question: Why does God allow terrible things to happen to innocent people? As an added discussion, another point was raised: If God is all-powerful, would He not stamp out Evil?
We are in the midst of a class advising how to be a "Better Evangelist for Christ", when this subject came up.
How do you answer that question to a non-believer, or a person who is seeking to join the church, but has serious doubts about the way God works?
Better yet, how do you back it up? In Genesis 3:1, it tells you God created that serpent, who for thousands of years has been known as the epitomy of Satan.
So, did God create Evil? Some folks said "No, He allowed it to happen." Alright, that requires a leap of faith, because I can't back that idea up anywhere in scripture that I know of.
Does anybody see where we were going with this?
I could not finish the class, because I had to leave for Choir practice for our 11:00 service; but I doubt they got very far in solving the questions.
penn

crawford texas????, Yale??? prescott bush?????

 

[Kain99]

Who cares if God used an explosion to create the universe? Everyone gets so caught up in this crap.

 

[somdcrab]

Who cares if God used an explosion to create the universe? Everyone gets so caught up in this crap.

amen sista

 

[vraiblonde]

This story happened in the days of Lao Tzu in China, and Lao Tzu loved it very much:

I love that story, too, because that is the path to serenity.

If Judas never betrayed Jesus, would Jesus have had the opportunity to fulfill his ultimate mission? Likewise with the people who complain that "The Passion" is anti-semetic (?spell?), if the Jewish leaders agreed with Jesus, that would have kinda ruined everything, no?

Exactly. Christ was put on this earth to die for our sins. No death, no Saviour. That's why I can't figure out the people that dog Jews for "killing Christ". #1, anyone present-day didn't have anything to do with it anyway. #2, it fulfilled the mission.

 

[reefbeef]

Evil

We had an interesting discussion in my Adult Sunday School class this morning. It's about an age old question: Why does God allow terrible things to happen to innocent people? As an added discussion, another point was raised: If God is all-powerful, would He not stamp out Evil?
We are in the midst of a class advising how to be a "Better Evangelist for Christ", when this subject came up.
How do you answer that question to a non-believer, or a person who is seeking to join the church, but has serious doubts about the way God works?
Better yet, how do you back it up? In Genesis 3:1, it tells you God created that serpent, who for thousands of years has been known as the epitomy of Satan.
So, did God create Evil? Some folks said "No, He allowed it to happen." Alright, that requires a leap of faith, because I can't back that idea up anywhere in scripture that I know of.
Does anybody see where we were going with this?
I could not finish the class, because I had to leave for Choir practice for our 11:00 service; but I doubt they got very far in solving the questions.
penn

yOU MUST TAKE THE GOOD WITH THE BAD, IF WE WERE ALL ANGLES AND SAINTS THEIR WOULD BE NO EVIL. GOD GIVES AND TAKES ITS NOT A MATTER OF GOOD OR BAD ITS HIS WILL.