Where the anti smoke zealotry really...

[Mikeinsmd]

Smokers are completely self-absorbed and cannot see another side to the argument. They think they are being reasonable, when in fact they are being cranks.

Arguing with them is pointless. We might as well try to convince Mohammad Suicide Bomber that Allah really doesn't have 72 virgins waiting for them.

:fixed: See, it works that way too.

 

[Mikeinsmd]

Ok,,,,

...with it if private business decided if they want to allow smoking or not?

I've been lucky and avoided anyone asking this out right since Wenchys post where I said she opened the can of worms BUT, since I am a loud mouth on here I will stand up and take this head on.

That's going to be tough to argue against. I do not believe the goobermint should dictate what private business can and cannot do. Basically, it's wrong for them to tell private business they have to ban smoking.

HOWEVER, I do believe that I should be able to take my family to a place I choose and enjoy my dinner without having to smell your smoke.

It is harmful whether some believe it or not. I believe there should be cordoned off smoking areas that I don't have to walk through to get to.

I'll use the example that we have freedom of speech until it infringes on the rights of others. i.e. You cannot yell fire in a crowded theater. I have a right to enjoy my dinner in a smoke free environment.

As I have said repeatedly, you can smoke at home, in your car, outside and in a bar. You can even smoke at restaurants in most areas. You are inconvenienced in a very minor way.

 

[GreenHornet]

What a charming person.

I'll bet that you're incredible fun at parties.


In person, when someone tries to engage you in conversation, do you normally just sneer at them until they leave, or do you verbally tell them to #### off?

I'll bet you're right! Consdiering how I only associate with those on my level. Believe it or not there are many of us and we have an excellent time everytime we get together for drinks and and to socialize. I have several friends who are reformed smokers and they hate smoking as much as I do. Infact the vast majority of non smokers are annoyed by your nasty habit. Our numbers are growing which is why you are seeing so much legislation to ban smoking. In ten years you'll be lucky if you can even smoke in your own house.

Cheers!

 

[clevalley]

...with it if private business decided if they want to allow smoking or not?

Honestly it has already happened... I did work for a company who was a non-smoking company... yes, employees had to be non-smokers! I did not believe it when I first heard about it but I worked with one of the owners.

It boiled down to keeping their health insurance rates down. This was ~10 years ago and the company is located in NoVa (Tysons Corner)...

I worked really close with them and smoked at the time - they never gave me any flack for smoking when we went out to lunch, but I did do it outside in the open - it was my preference...

 

[GreenHornet]

I bet he has onion pits and is just upset because everybody shuns his stinky butt.
this is only his way of retaliating against others.

I do like to instigate and since everyone here so easily offended you're just making my day that much more fun. Thank you for this!

I also do kick boxing as a hobby so to answer your question; no this isn't the only way I get to take my frustrations out on irritating people. PM me if you ever want to go a few rounds......

 

[vraiblonde]

I do like to instigate and since everyone here so easily offended you're just making my day that much more fun. Thank you for this!

It's okay - we like to feed the trolls and find it amusing. So it is I who thanks you!

 

[cdsulhoff]

What I don't get is why couldn't they just have the places close off the smoking area so that the non- smoker won't be effected by it. Everyone has rights and someone rights are going to be effected!
I would have a bar with 2 different bar area. One zone where it is completely closed off for smokers and a non smoking bar. This way everyone is happy. Sh*t I would have 2 different entrance and warn patrons that they are entering the smoking area!! But that is me.. I know smoking and drinking goes hand in hand! I have seen some sh*t faced non smokers light up!!
What do you thing would be a fair deal for both party! How would you solve this?

 

[clevalley]

Okay - let me throw the grenade in...

Smoking in public - if permitted - is someones right and they are allowed to while a non-smoker ate his/her dinner... the smoke gets on them and they smell it, it bothers them, and it ruins their dinner...

What if a non-smoker voluntararliy belches on or near a smoker and the "remnants" gets on them they smell it, it bothers them and it ruins their dinner...

Both are dirty habits in each others minds... but are both voluntarily controlled...

thoughts? I am just trying to look at it from the other side...

 

[Mikeinsmd]

Okay - let me throw the grenade in...

Smoking in public - if permitted - is someones right and they are allowed to while a non-smoker ate his/her dinner... the smoke gets on them and they smell it, it bothers them, and it ruins their dinner...

What if a non-smoker voluntararliy belches on or near a smoker and the "remnants" gets on them they smell it, it bothers them and it ruins their dinner...

Both are dirty habits in each others minds... but are both voluntarily controlled...

thoughts? I am just trying to look at it from the other side...

 

[clevalley]

Believe me - I am trying to look at it from the other side and this is all I could come up... yes - I am a former smoker to boot!
Yes - I am going for the laugh...

 

[Mikeinsmd]

Believe me - I am trying to look at it from the other side and this is all I could come up... yes - I am a former smoker to boot!
Yes - I am going for the laugh...

Ok, try this.

We're in a nice restaurant. Vrai is sitting at the table next to me. I fart.

Now I have "special" farts. They put off a green smoke and they reek...... they reek like my ass!!

My green fart smoke floats over to vrai and gets in her hair. It settles on her food. It attaches to her clothes. Vrai has to smell my fart all through her meal. Her kids smell it and it gets on them too.

When vrai leaves the restaurant and gets home, her hair, clothes and kids smell like.......my ass.

Oh and on top of all that, the CDC says my farts cause cancer!!!!


BUT!!!!! I have every right to fart in the restaurant!!

 

[vraiblonde]

BUT!!!!! I have every right to fart in the restaurant!!

The part you're missing, moron, is that there are many non-smoking restaurants you can patronize if smoking offends your tender sensibilities so much.

By wanting to be where the smokers are and not taking advantage of the special restaurants that cater just to you, you're being an ####### and deliberately confrontational.

And if I ever meet you IRL, I promise I will blow smoke right straight in your face and hope you choke to death.

 

[clevalley]

I read this and just get the visual of the Monty Python movie "Holy Grail" - the line where the Frenchman says;
"I fart in your general direction"

Vrai - you have a very valid point which I missed; you cannot smoke in just any resteraunt, but anyone can fart or belch (previous examples) in any resteraunt... there went my theory.

 

[SEABREEZE 1957]

...comes from; Smokers.

Time to stand and be counted, smokers. Would you prefer that you did not smoke, but make one excuse after another to not quit? I'm trying to boil this all down, cut through all the issues, all the pro's and con's, the laws, the cost, the pesonal rights, and get down to bedrock, yes or no on smoking if you could snap your fingers. That means no urge, no missing of the habit, no more of the habitual ritual, nothing, just straightforward yes or no;

My point, my theory, is that this is not an issue people are going to march on, not going to man the barricades. Secretly or not, most smokers are glad they are slowly being forced to quit.

You didn't have a 'maybe ' option.

By that I mean, if i could smoke one or two every now and then (like some people i know) that would be my desire.

However, I'm a big friggin' addict...I smoke approx. 10 ciggs a day. (Down from a pack to pack and a half 7 years ago)

I also go out of my way to be a considerate smoker. I don't flick my ashes or butts out the car window, smoke in front of children, hang out at the front doors of public places smoking (instead i walk swiftly down the sidewalk & hope no one behind me dies of cancer), try to be considerate of guests in my house, and all-in-all one, good smoker as far as society is concerned.

But yes, I wish I never started.​

Me, I enjoy it, even though I know it's bad for my health. So is eating a Big Mac..if you're going to tax smokers, tax bad food too.

PM USA Legislative Action Center



Moderation is everything and that is the route I'm taking with smoking.

 

[SEABREEZE 1957]

I don't want to quit, I enjoy the relaxing effect it has upon me and those around me appreciate the fact that I haven't quit. I tried to quit before for reasons not my own and ended up being asked to start again.

Yep, I had to quit 'the patch'..it was 10X worse than the smokes...

 

[Larry Gude]

Simple...

What do you thing would be a fair deal for both party! How would you solve this?

...solution, however radical it may sound; I'm pro choice.

Allow an owner to decide if they allow smoking or not and under what conditions; bubbles, separate, rooms, perhaps you must be a smoker to be allowed in? Freedom.

Now, as most of society including, as of this post, a majority of smokers, do not smoke or wish they did not, it is highly in public favor to have much non smoking going on. Democracy dictates that a majority gets to tell everyone else what to do.

Liberty dictates that the mob does not rule. So, as a practical reality, allow establishments the RIGHT to choose if they allow or not AND, in recognition of the desires of the mob, offer societal motivations for establishments to choose no smoking; Tax breaks.

So, if Applebee's says no smoking, there it is. If Cheeseburger says "By all means" so be it. Applebee's saves on their tax bill. Cheeseburger does not and they will decide that either it is worth it or not.

I am all in favor of inducements to desired behavior. I am opposed to totalitarian solutions.

You anti's are all for totalitarianism when it comes to smoking and you are walking right down that primrose path to your personal 'vice' being attacked by the same specious arguments you accept about second hand smoke.

Food.
Drink.
Entertainment. (yes, public health don't you know?)
Dress. (why not if the only criteria is that it offends someone?)

You people should be ashamed of yourselves. You are whiners and crybabies and are threats to all our freedoms, one little tiny one at a time. You may make the excuse that this is some small little thing and what harm can it really be yet, let's be honest, you're afraid of smoke in tiny little HARMELSS concentrations, other than your 'blessed' right to not smell anything that offends thee or, worse, have to take a shower or wash your damn cloths.

You are engaging in or at least supporting, which is the same thing, tyranny.

 

[Mikeinsmd]

The part you're missing, moron, is that there are many non-smoking restaurants you can patronize if smoking offends your tender sensibilities so much.

By wanting to be where the smokers are and not taking advantage of the special restaurants that cater just to you, you're being an ####### and deliberately confrontational.

And if I ever meet you IRL, I promise I will blow smoke right straight in your face and hope you choke to death.

Real mature here vrai.

You insist I go to other places yet I'm the zealot. I don't wanna be where the smokers are. Maybe there's a place I wanna go because I like the food.

Who's the zealot??? I smacked you down good and this is the best you have!! You're going to blow smoke in my face??

 

[Kyle]

Real mature here vrai.

You insist I go to other places yet I'm the zealot. I don't wanna be where the smokers are. Maybe there's a place I wanna go because I like the food.

Who's the zealot??? I smacked you down good and this is the best you have!!

You are.

Shes' advocating letting restaurants be smoking or non-smoking. Let the smokers go to theirs and the non-Smokers go to the non smoking establishments.

WTF is wrong with that? By imposing your requirements on the other side completely across the board you ARE in fact being confrontational and a ZEALOT.

It's not rocket science.

 

[Mikeinsmd]

You are.

Shes' advocating letting restaurants be smoking or non-smoking. Let the smokers go to theirs and the non-Smokers go to the non smoking establishments.

WTF is wrong with that? By imposing your requirements on the other side completely across the board you ARE in fact being confrontational and a ZEALOT.

It's not rocket science.

Negative. I haven't posted one confrontational post (purposely). I used a calm, rational method of debating presenting resonable positions for both sides. Vrai on the other hand has several posts where the word filter kicked in. She's even became mean about it. Shows I'm under her skin.

I said they should have separate smoking areas. If every restaurant allows smoking with no separate nonsmoking area, there's no place for the nons to go. The minority zealots (smokers) refuse to see the other point of view. I believe that was straight from one of vrai's posts. They believe THEY should have the right to smoke anywhere and everywhere and screw the rights of those who don't smoke. They want to smoke where and when they please regardless of who it affects. Thank gawd the laws are being enacted so I can enjoy a meal without having to smell their crap.

Serious question because I'm coming up blank.... before smoking laws, where were the nonsmoking restaurants she keeps referring me to?

 

[Larry Gude]

That...

Serious question because I'm coming up blank.... before smoking laws, where were the nonsmoking restaurants she keeps referring me to?

...is the underlying problem. There were NONE. When I was a kid, airplanes, CLOTHING stores, all restaurants, GROCERY stores, anywhere and everywhere allowed smoking. McDonalds had little tin ashtrays.

There were non smoking areas in restaurants. My grandmother always asked strangers to not smoke near here.

So, the problem, motivation for there to be non smoking places; impose it or encourage it?

We've chosen imposition. We've used a chainsaw instead of a scalpel.