Which was it?
- Thread starter mv_princess
- Start date
itsbob
I bowl overhand
This just happened to a paraglider in Australia.. got caught up in a storm and huge updraft took her and another glide WAAAAy up.. to the point of loss of consciousness due to lack of oxygen. When she came to on the way down she was encased in ice, the other 'glider' wasn't so lucky, he died.desertrat said:
SMIB Sucks
What the?!?!?
Ms. White, with the rope, in the library.
SMIB Sucks
What the?!?!?
SMIB Sucks said:
Crap I just looked in the envelope and I was wrong. It was Moses, with the pipe, in the kitchen. Or mabye it was Tim Curry...damn now I am lost.
This_person
Well-Known Member
wxtornado said:I wasYour ominiscient God created me, knowing I wouldn't believe, remember?
You're not really meant to go there. God also gave you free will and intelligence. So, you have all the tools to know you need to believe, why you should believe, and the right to choose to believe. He basically handed you the keys to a great life forever, and just asks you to be smart enough to take them and have that great life.
This_person
Well-Known Member
wxtornado said:
Maybe, just maybe, He foresaw more than one path for you. Or, maybe He put you here just to be "the devil's advocate" so that your argument would entice 30 other people to argue and become stronger believers (sacrafice you for the common good). Maybe He just didn't like you? I wish I could answer, but I won't know until He tells me.
wxtornado
The Other White Meat
This_person said:
Maybe pink unicorns will fly outta my butt tomorrow
. But that still doesn't allow me to choose (free will) anything different that what he already saw me doing. I'm arguing that the God Christians posit comes with certain consequences, and one of those consequences is that free will becomes an impossibility.
Check it out. If God sees something you're going to do before you are born (and the Christian God does, from infinity) and he allows you to be born, then you cannot override his foreseeing it. You're trapped into that behavior. That's a consequence of the God asserted by Christians.
Here's a scriptural example: Both Pharoah of the OT and Judas of the NT are extreme examples of people who could not overide their destinies in life. Pharoah is actively made hard-hearted by God as a pre-planned course of action which God tells Moses he's going to do, and Judas has to betray Jesus for Jesus to be crucified.
Neither of these men had a choice, they had to do what they did in order for God's previously hatched plan to come to fruition. And that spills down to every level, since according to the theist we are "all part of God's plan". Hence even these words I'm typing were foreseen and known and I was "created" to do this very thing. I have no choice in the matter. Even if I stop, that was foreseen, and known and realized and all part of it.
Now remove God from the picture. Make a choice right now - anything will do. There's no God, so it was not a foreseen choice.
That's free will. It simply is. No omniscient, omnipotent force out there to have anything to do with it.
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This_person
Well-Known Member
wxtornado said:Maybe pink unicorns will fly outta my butt tomorrow
I'm arguing that the God Christians posit comes with certain consequences, and one of those consequences is that free will becomes an impossibility.
The fact that there's a "maybe" to anything suggests that your interpretation may be wrong. An all-knowing God can certainly see that He gave you the choice, and know the results that come from any choice you make. And, can see all the threads of life that come from all of the possible choices all people make. That He knows what you'll do doesn't imply it's your only choice, merely that He knows you.
However, Toxick is right - this has been beaten to death, and neither of us is likely to change our opinion.
And, God knew that.
Penn
Dancing Up A Storm
You know, many of us have been trying to get the message across that all of mankind has been given the choice of Free Will. That, given the knowledge the the Bible affords us, also known as the Book of Life, etc., we are armed with the beliefs that the Lord God has given all of us, that we in fact, as Christians, take on as faith.
Let's look at it from the opposite angle:
Maybe He knew, from the days we were in our mother's womb, even before we were born, that some of us would not accept the Lord as our Savior. That no matter what evidence or proof of His existence, His miracles, His death and Resurrection from the grave, that there would be those who would not, nor could not accept it as truth.
I do not know the answers to everything in God's Holy Book; however what I have read, does lead me to try to follow His ways. I fully admit, I am not always successful in my endeavors, in that I do fail. The best I can do is admit that I have sinned, and ask Him for forgiveness.
Let's look at it from the opposite angle:
Maybe He knew, from the days we were in our mother's womb, even before we were born, that some of us would not accept the Lord as our Savior. That no matter what evidence or proof of His existence, His miracles, His death and Resurrection from the grave, that there would be those who would not, nor could not accept it as truth.
I do not know the answers to everything in God's Holy Book; however what I have read, does lead me to try to follow His ways. I fully admit, I am not always successful in my endeavors, in that I do fail. The best I can do is admit that I have sinned, and ask Him for forgiveness.
Why don't you stop with this same tired merry go round? You try this same stuff with anyone you can bait.wxtornado said:
I am beginning to believe you did not ask in sincerity.
wx's statements are here for any to read. They are always the same.Nucklesack said: