Why Newtown victim Noah Pozner had an open coffin

nhboy

Ubi bene ibi patria
Link to original article.

More here.

"Noah Pozner, 6, was one of the 20 child victims in the Sandy Hook shooting in Newtown, Conn., on Dec. 14. All the dead were shot between three and 11 times. Tiny Noah took 11 bullets.

His mother, Veronique, insisted on an open coffin, Naomi Zeveloff reported in the Jewish Daily Forward.

You’ll probably remember Noah. He was a happy little guy with beautiful heavily lashed eyes and a cheerful smile. In his coffin, there was a cloth placed over the lower part of his face.

“There was no mouth left,” his mother told the Forward. “His jaw was blown away.”

She put a stone in his right hand, a “clear plastic rock with a white angel inside.” She wanted to put a matching stone in his left hand but he had no left hand to speak of.

Parents of the dead children were advised to identify them from photographs, such was the carnage. But every parent reacts differently. Veronique Pozner did the most difficult thing. She asked to see the body. Zeveloff asked her why.

“I owed it to him as his mother, the good, the bad and the ugly,” she said. “. . . And as a little boy, you have to go in the ground. If I am going to shut my eyes to that I am not his mother. I had to bear it. I had to do it.” "

.....

"But the literary critic Wayne Booth came up with the concept of the “unreliable narrator.” Can you trust what you are being told? Reporters can tell you that 20 children were shot. But since American gun owners think reporters are unreliable narrators in the first place, perhaps they have to be shown what one man did to Noah because he had, not just one bullet, but a magazine of bullets.

We saw JFK’s skull fly apart. Emmett’s unrecognizable face was on show.

And that’s why Noah’s mother asked the governor to come and see her child’s corpse. He had already been told. He had to see it for himself."
 

DynaDink

New Member
Link to original article.

More here.

"Noah Pozner, 6, was one of the 20 child victims in the Sandy Hook shooting in Newtown, Conn., on Dec. 14. All the dead were shot between three and 11 times. Tiny Noah took 11 bullets.

His mother, Veronique, insisted on an open coffin, Naomi Zeveloff reported in the Jewish Daily Forward.

You’ll probably remember Noah. He was a happy little guy with beautiful heavily lashed eyes and a cheerful smile. In his coffin, there was a cloth placed over the lower part of his face.

“There was no mouth left,” his mother told the Forward. “His jaw was blown away.”

She put a stone in his right hand, a “clear plastic rock with a white angel inside.” She wanted to put a matching stone in his left hand but he had no left hand to speak of.

Parents of the dead children were advised to identify them from photographs, such was the carnage. But every parent reacts differently. Veronique Pozner did the most difficult thing. She asked to see the body. Zeveloff asked her why.

“I owed it to him as his mother, the good, the bad and the ugly,” she said. “. . . And as a little boy, you have to go in the ground. If I am going to shut my eyes to that I am not his mother. I had to bear it. I had to do it.” "

.....

"But the literary critic Wayne Booth came up with the concept of the “unreliable narrator.” Can you trust what you are being told? Reporters can tell you that 20 children were shot. But since American gun owners think reporters are unreliable narrators in the first place, perhaps they have to be shown what one man did to Noah because he had, not just one bullet, but a magazine of bullets.

We saw JFK’s skull fly apart. Emmett’s unrecognizable face was on show.

And that’s why Noah’s mother asked the governor to come and see her child’s corpse. He had already been told. He had to see it for himself."

More BS from the anti gun crowd. What will it be next? Hammers, knives, baseball bats ? Give me a efin break.
 

mAlice

professional daydreamer
I think that mother is mentally ill. Who freaking does that??

Someone who would use their child to promote their agenda. We see it every day. Children attempting to regurgitate adult statements...funny as ####. Now take it one step further, and use your dead child to promote your agenda.
 

thatguy

New Member
I don't believe a .223 round is blowing off jaws and arms.

Lanza didn't use a .50BMG.

so what is your conspiracy theory this time?


for the rest of you, everybody greives differently. This woman didn't choose for Adam lanza to murder her child, she is just dealing with it how she feels she needs to. being a victim i'd say she has that right.
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
I don't believe a .223 round is blowing off jaws and arms.

Lanza didn't use a .50BMG.

Disagree. I have fired thousands of rounds of .223. Six year old kids are soft bones and mush. .223 can easily do that, along with 9mm and .40.

That being said, there is something wrong with mommy to do this. Horrible.

It was not the bullets - it was the whacko who stole the guns that did it.
 
I guess I get the point someone is trying to make, but is it a point that needs to be made? I mean, is anyone denying that bullets can do damage to the human body? Are a significant number of people denying that more than one bullet can, other things being equal, do more physical damage than one bullet can? I don't think most people are in denial about the reality that someone used a lot of bullets to do a lot of damage to a lot of children at Sandy Hook. Pretending that they are in such denial (and that that's why they take the anti-more-gun-laws position) and then using that pretense to cover the reality that you're just trying to overpower reason with emotion doesn't help the conversation. It may be effective with some, but it belies the strength of your position. When people choose to appeal to emotion rather than reason, especially when they do so at the expense of the latter, it often indicates that somewhere inside they realize that reason isn't on their side.

My father had a closed casket. That was a decision my mother made based on advice she received from people she trusted who had seen his body. No one in my family ever saw his body; again, that was based on advice we had been given. I would like to have, but I'm okay with the reality that I did not. Why was it considered best that we didn't? Because tens of thousands of cubic feet of jet fuel vapors can do more damage to a human body than a single cubic foot of it can. That's not a reality that I felt a need to assure myself of, nor is it a reality that I feel a need to demonstrate to others. I don't believe many would dispute it and, at any rate, their denial of it wouldn't be the reason they opposed laws prohibiting fuel tanks, cans, and barges from holding more than 5 gallons of fuel at a time. I suspect that most people that would oppose such a limitation on fuel tank size would do so with full awareness that it is possible for fuel tanks to explode - that, under unfortunate circumstances, sometimes they do just that. And they're aware that larger fuel tanks can produce bigger booms. Yet, for whatever reasons, they still believe fuel tanks should be allowed to be bigger than 5 gallons.

A fuel tank being huge resulted in the death of my father and damage to his body extensive enough that I never got that last little bit of closure that comes from seeing a loved one's body and knowing that it was in the casket you bid farewell to. Yet my grief wasn't metabolized in advocacy of fuel tank size restrictions, nor were my emotions exploited in furtherance of the same. That's because I recognize the importance of reason, rather than emotion, prevailing in most decisions. Some decisions should be made based primarily on emotion, indeed it is those decisions that bring the greatest fulfillment to our lives. But reason should guide the great majority of our decisions. And it should guide the one we are collectively faced with now - whether or not to enact more gun laws.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
Disagree. I have fired thousands of rounds of .223. Six year old kids are soft bones and mush. .223 can easily do that, along with 9mm and .40.

That being said, there is something wrong with mommy to do this. Horrible.

It was not the bullets - it was the whacko who stole the guns that did it.

I stand corrected then. My bad
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
A fuel tank being huge resulted in the death of my father and damage to his body extensive enough that I never got that last little bit of closure that comes from seeing a loved one's body and knowing that it was in the casket you bid farewell to.

:buddies:

I am sorry for your loss in such a tragic way ....... My dad just went to work one day and never came home ... the next time I saw hilm was at the viewing ....
 

aps45819

24/7 Single Dad
so what is your conspiracy theory this time?


for the rest of you, everybody greives differently. This woman didn't choose for Adam lanza to murder her child, she is just dealing with it how she feels she needs to. being a victim i'd say she has that right.

Apparently she blames the gun, not Lanza who stole a gun and killed her kid
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Certainly the mother can do whatever she wants regarding the display of her son. But it’s obvious she is exploiting the death and dismemberment of her son to promote the gun control agenda. I personally find that sickening.
 

SoMDGirl42

Well-Known Member
I pray I never have to make this choice, but God help me if one of my children ever die before I do, I can promise you I will see them one final time, no matter what the condition of their body is in. I understand her need to kiss her baby goodbye one last time. I do. What I don't understand is having an open viewing to everyone.

An agenda? I don't know. Overwhelmed with grief? Yes. Do those overwhelmed with grief always make the best decisions? :shrug:
 

thatguy

New Member
Certainly the mother can do whatever she wants regarding the display of her son. But it’s obvious she is exploiting the death and dismemberment of her son to promote the gun control agenda. I personally find that sickening.

I am sure she is really worried about how you feel about it :bigwhoop:

what is more sickening, you having to deal with the idea that this woman had an open casket for her dead child or that fact that a mother had to bury her son? She didn't choose for lanza to murder her son, she just chose to not let him be memorialized as a faceless box.
 
:buddies:

I am sorry for your loss in such a tragic way ....... My dad just went to work one day and never came home ... the next time I saw hilm was at the viewing ....

It was more than 25 years ago, but thanks. The point is that bad things happen in life (and frankly, from my point of view, it doesn't really matter much if it's of the 'tragic' variety or of the more 'normal' variety; I've experienced a couple of the former and, of course, some of the latter - I can say that I have no preference), they happen to everyone at some point. We can't all abandon reason whenever bad things happen, even tragic things. We can't go through life denying reason and expecting our excited emotions to shield us from criticism for so doing. Should allowances be made for people experiencing extreme emotions? Of course. But if something is wrong its having been born of extreme emotion doesn't make it right, and it shouldn't be judged as though it were.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
I am sure she is really worried about how you feel about it :bigwhoop:

what is more sickening, you having to deal with the idea that this woman had an open casket for her dead child or that fact that a mother had to bury her son? She didn't choose for lanza to murder her son, she just chose to not let he be memorialized as a faceless box.

I’ve expressed my opinion about it and don’t give one rats @$$ what you think about it. I don’t have to deal with this mother doing what she did, I don’t have to deal with your incessant obtuseness on every living subject in this forum, and your opinion (which is all you’ve provided here) has no more validity than mine.
 

thatguy

New Member
I’ve expressed my opinion about it and don’t give one rats @$$ what you think about it. I don’t have to deal with this mother doing what she did, I don’t have to deal with your incessant obtuseness on every living subject in this forum, and your opinion (which is all you’ve provided here) has no more validity than mine.

for someone who doesn't have to deal with it you sure seem to have a problem with her actions......

I am more sickened by the fact that all those parents had to bury their children than i am about either side "using" this for their agenda. :bigwhoop:
 

MarieB

New Member
Certainly the mother can do whatever she wants regarding the display of her son. But it’s obvious she is exploiting the death and dismemberment of her son to promote the gun control agenda. I personally find that sickening.

I still am not quite sure what I think about this but


I don't even think she can be consciously exploiting anything at this point. I couldn't even put myself in her shoes, nor would I want to. I don't think any of us know for sure how we would react to something like this happening to one of our own. I find it interesting though that it sounds like they are Jewish, but Jews usually don't have a viewing.

I'll withhold judgement until seeing whether she takes the Cindy Sheehan route
 
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