Why would anyone look to the Catholic Church when

[hotcoffee]

I actually went to a funeral at a Catholic church because my last boss was Catholic and I actually liked the service but the point is to prove that some Catholics are not saved and going to heaven and my goal is not to trash the Church but to speak the truth in love and let the chips fall where they may.

I have to ask you to stop right there. I don't understand how you can make a statement like that.

The statement you made here is simply not true. That's like saying the sky is always blue or birds are always brown with a red crown. It's just not true.

I know that my sister is saved. I've had talks with her. I know she has Christ in her life. I know this.

My sister worships in a brick and mortar church that happens to be filled with people who follow the Catholic faith. She likes it there. She thrives there. Her love for our Savior Jesus Christ is growing there.

Salvation has nothing to do with where you go. Salvation has nothing to do with what books you read. Salvation has nothing to do with anything you do.

Salvation is from God.

Please read John 14:5-7 and really check out verse 6 in context.

John 14:5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”​

Jesus doesn't say, anyone who goes to the buildings with purple roofs will be saved. Jesus spent the majority of His time teaching outside of the Temple. It doesn't matter what church you go to or what books you read.

Salvation is personal. That I am sure of.

 

[Bobwhite]

I have to ask you to stop right there. I don't understand how you can make a statement like that.

The statement you made here is simply not true. That's like saying the sky is always blue or birds are always brown with a red crown. It's just not true.

I know that my sister is saved. I've had talks with her. I know she has Christ in her life. I know this.

My sister worships in a brick and mortar church that happens to be filled with people who follow the Catholic faith. She likes it there. She thrives there. Her love for our Savior Jesus Christ is growing there.

Salvation has nothing to do with where you go. Salvation has nothing to do with what books you read. Salvation has nothing to do with anything you do.

Salvation is from God.

Please read John 14:5-7 and really check out verse 6 in context.

John 14:5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”​

Jesus doesn't say, anyone who goes to the buildings with purple roofs will be saved. Jesus spent the majority of His time teaching outside of the Temple. It doesn't matter what church you go to or what books you read.

Salvation is personal. That I am sure of.

Thank you, Hot Coffee, for your voice of reason.

 

[Chuckt]

I have to ask you to stop right there. I don't understand how you can make a statement like that.

The statement you made here is simply not true. That's like saying the sky is always blue or birds are always brown with a red crown. It's just not true.

I know that my sister is saved. I've had talks with her. I know she has Christ in her life. I know this.

My sister worships in a brick and mortar church that happens to be filled with people who follow the Catholic faith. She likes it there. She thrives there. Her love for our Savior Jesus Christ is growing there.

Salvation has nothing to do with where you go. Salvation has nothing to do with what books you read. Salvation has nothing to do with anything you do.

Salvation is from God.

Please read John 14:5-7 and really check out verse 6 in context.

John 14:5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”​

Jesus doesn't say, anyone who goes to the buildings with purple roofs will be saved. Jesus spent the majority of His time teaching outside of the Temple. It doesn't matter what church you go to or what books you read.

Salvation is personal. That I am sure of.

How are they saved?

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The ones referred to in Matthew 7:22-23 use / used the name of Jesus and Jesus says in the Greek "I never ever knew you". Therefore, being a churchgoer doesn't make you saved and going to heaven.

Matthew 7:13 ¶ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

If it doesn't matter which church you go to then why will there be few that find life in the hereafter? The answer is that not everyone has the truth about God.

 

[Bird Dog]

I actually went to a funeral at a Catholic church because my last boss was Catholic and I actually liked the service but the point is to prove that some Catholics are not saved and going to heaven and my goal is not to trash the Church but to speak the truth in love and let the chips fall where they may.

1 Corinthians 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

If an idol is nothing in the world because the god behind it doesn't exist, why should I care if you have statues? It isn't on my conscience.
Unfortunately, your false accusation of me is based on a belief I don't have. I can prove what I believe. You have shown your misunderstanding of what I don't believe. What you are doing is giving yourself a reputation for false accusations and causing trouble for people who have done nothing. If it isn't the truth then what is it? Would you not tell the truth to defend something that was false?

Please do not worry yourself with the Catholics. We are very comfortable with our Faith.
Go back under the rock you came out from under and help some of your former brethren who are still there. They are the ones that need your help.

 

[onel0126]

How are they saved? If it doesn't matter which church you go to then why will there be few that find life in the hereafter? The answer is that not everyone has the truth about God.

I'd like some of the other Protestants on this forum to reply to the above quoted comment besides HC who already put aside any denominational leanings and was intellectually honest enough to respond.

 

[Chuckt]

Please do not worry yourself with the Catholics. We are very comfortable with our Faith.
Go back under the rock you came out from under and help some of your former brethren who are still there. They are the ones that need your help.

I'll take that as a compliment and as an admission that you acknowledge we care enough to tell you the truth.

 

[Chuckt]

I'd like some of the other Protestants on this forum to reply to the above quoted comment besides HC who already put aside any denominational leanings and was intellectually honest enough to respond.

I can call my friends to come on here. I think one or two would come.

 

[b23hqb]

I'd like some of the other Protestants on this forum to reply to the above quoted comment besides HC who already put aside any denominational leanings and was intellectually honest enough to respond.

Anyone who believes that salvation lies in faith through Christ alone, as the Bible preaches and teaches over and over, they are saved. Salvation can ONLY come by believing the Gospel that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and resurrected from the dead, and only faith in those actions can lead to salvation, and no one can add any works to that.

If Catholics believe that, fine and dandy, but just attend catholic church for the flash and dash, pomp and circumstances, etc. - why? Makes no sense to me that anyone who places their faith in Jesus alone would want to participate in any other action but following scripture.

But if Catholics, along with Mormons, adhere to the rc or Morman doctrine of the church catechism, baptism, penance, sacraments, service and witness, detaching from all riches, keeping the 10 commandments, etc., they are placing their salvation in their works and righteousness, and not in faith in Christ alone. Those that adhere to that rc doctrine and system will never find salvation.

Stick with divine scripture, and do not anything to it. Can't go wrong.

 

[Bird Dog]

I'll take that as a compliment and as an admission that you acknowledge we care enough to tell you the truth.

Don't flatter yourself......
http://www.openbible.info/topics/flattery

 

[Gilligan]

we care enough to tell you the truth.

I learned a long time ago to avoid, like the plague, anyone who ever made a statement like that.

Jim Jones told the "truth" too.

 

[onel0126]

I can call my friends to come on here. I think one or two would come.

Italian Scallion and Starman3000?

 

[onel0126]

Anyone who believes that salvation lies in faith through Christ alone, as the Bible preaches and teaches over and over, they are saved. Salvation can ONLY come by believing the Gospel that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and resurrected from the dead, and only faith in those actions can lead to salvation, and no one can add any works to that. If Catholics believe that, fine and dandy, but just attend catholic church for the flash and dash, pomp and circumstances, etc. - why? Makes no sense to me that anyone who places their faith in Jesus alone would want to participate in any other action but following scripture. But if Catholics, along with Mormons, adhere to the rc or Morman doctrine of the church catechism, baptism, penance, sacraments, service and witness, detaching from all riches, keeping the 10 commandments, etc., they are placing their salvation in their works and righteousness, and not in faith in Christ alone. Those that adhere to that rc doctrine and system will never find salvation. Stick with divine scripture, and do not anything to it. Can't go wrong.

I actually quoted the wrong thing--I wasn't so much looking for your rambling interpretation of salvation--because after all, it is yours. I was more interested in getting the Protestants on this board to comment on Chuck's assertion that Catholics are doomed to hell--blanket statement. Like HC did.

 

[b23hqb]

I actually quoted the wrong thing--I wasn't so much looking for your rambling interpretation of salvation--because after all, it is yours. I was more interested in getting the Protestants on this board to comment on Chuck's assertion that Catholics are doomed to hell--blanket statement. Like HC did.

Take it however you want. Your choice.

And quit beating the new guy up. I stated in post #2 what he got himself into.

You are such a peach, onel. So sweet.

 

[onel0126]

Take it however you want. Your choice. And quit beating the new guy up. I stated in post #2 what he got himself into. You are such a peach, onel. So sweet.

Come on. It took him 2 days to condemn Catholics to hell. Use search--I've never uttered such a thing about Protestants--never called them heretics even.

 

[Radiant1]

If you have to rationalize your religion with that kind of presumption, what does that do for Catholicism?

I wasn't rationalizing, and the presumption was Bob's.

The church was allegedly shuffling accused priests from parish to parish until one church official got arrested. It is a different story.

Yes, and no it's not.

I would really like you to read "The Canon of Scripture" by F.F. Bruce before you give me one sided arguments.

But yet you're asking me to read one-sided material.

The other book I would like you to read is Geisler and Nix, "A General Introduction To The Bible
Tthe Church which was "...built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;" (Ephesians 2:20).

And more one-sided material. Let me clue you in, one-sided material makes for one-sided arguments. :ahem:

Then you have a framework to start asking questions

A one-sided framework?

like: Who were the apostles and prophets? One clue comes from Jesus and it is important for everyone to know their Bibles. "That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation."-Luke 11:50-51

There you start with a genealogy of the prophets which was from Abel to Zacherias. If you have books before or after these men then you have to have other Biblical support from Jesus or they have to be classified apart from the Prophets.

Another evidence for what was included in the Canon comes from Jesus. “…that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms concerning me.”-Luke 24:44 Jesus gives the division of scripture and it doesn’t include the Apocrypha because the division is "The Law of Moses", "The Prophets" and the "Psalms".

Why not simply use the Septuagint like Jesus, the majority of Palestine and early church, and the Church Fathers? If Protestants can accept a Catholic scholar (Athanasius) on the New Testament books, then why not trust the Catholic scholars on the Old Testament books? I can tell you why if you can't figure it out.

A lot of people think the denial of the Apocrypha is a Protestant invention. The truth is that the development of the Cannon of Scripture is not an invention of any one person, group, church, denomination or council. I do feel that the Protestants have recognized what the majority has recognized since the church fathers.

What you "feel" may very well be incorrect, don't you think? An abbreviated version of the OT wasn't used until Luther in 1500+ who relied heavily on the findings of the Council of Jamnia. Do you know that the Council of Jamnia was a polemic against Christianity? Why, in the name of God, would you rely on an anti-Christian translation of the OT and one that Jesus never used?

It is a lot of reading and you have to know your Bible. If you don't know your Bible then someone may claim authority that they don't have. If someone claims authority that they shouldn't have them they come between God and that person. There are also numerous warnings not to add to or subtract from the Word of God.

Luther should have paid more attention.

There are more tests as to why the Apocrypha is not scripture and why would you try to prove something that your church doesn't believe in anyway? There is thetimes dot co dot uk newspaper article called "The Catholic Church no longer swears by the truth of the Bible". Some pewbies may not be aware of the article but the article is now on a paid news site and you might get references to the article if you google it but because of copyright laws, it can't be posted.

Oh wow, another sensational headline about the Catholic Church; I'm shocked. FYI, the Catholic Church has never taken a literal approach to scripture. We aren't fundamentalists. That in no way, shape, or form means we don't believe in the Word of God. I highly suggest you make note of that before you spew forth such insinuations again.

A "pewbie"?

 

[stgislander]

I think that if we all can get to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind; and, love your neighbor as yourself", then everything else is just a theological exercise.

 

[onel0126]

Why, in the name of God, would you rely on an anti-Christian translation of the OT and one that Jesus never used?

It's always struck me as bizarre the argument that a group who were not only outside of the Church, but actually in opposition to it, got to define canon.

 

[PsyOps]

No. I answered a different question. I was not asked the question you are implying that wasn't asked. I would have given a different answer.

I quoted your question word-for-word.

The second quote answered the question in the first quote.

 

[PsyOps]

If it doesn't matter which church you go to then why will there be few that find life in the hereafter? The answer is that not everyone has the truth about God.

I don't belong to any church. Am I saved?

 

[Chuckt]

It's always struck me as bizarre the argument that a group who were not only outside of the Church, but actually in opposition to it, got to define canon.

If you never knew what Christianity was, how would you know if you were in it?