Wiccan Symbol OK on Military Headstones

[brendar buhl]

Sorry I called it a hobby. I know that's not exactly right, but brendar buhl couldn't seem to understand how you would practice the craft but not believe in the religion.

There are artists over the centuries who painted almost entirely religious themed paintings, while they themselves were not devoutly religious, or didn't necessarily believe in the religion the painting depicted.

What is the "religion" in which you don't believe? Explain to me, patiently, why you don't believe in the "religion" called wicca.

 

[Midnightrider]

I'm quite sure you're right. But my question still stands for MysticalMom.

you didn'e see where she answered it?

 

[PsyOps]

I hadn't been able to get back to this thread until now. So let me clear up a few things...

I do not speak for ANY Wiccans. I am not Wiccan. Wicca is indeed a religion. Albeit a "New Age" (which is what I meant by not "mainstream") religion. Complete with diety worship.

Wiccans incorporate "witchcraft" and magic as part of their religion. It is what they believe. When I said my craft was what I "do" not what I believe, this was what I meant.

My spirituality is a seperate thing from my craft. A contradiction? I don't think so. I worship no deity, I don't do ritual, cast circles or "spells", call on the dead, or know anything about covens or gods and goddesses. I was taught a family craft. I read cards and tea leaves. I use a pendulum to help find lost things or to predict the sex of babies. I make herbal remedies and teas. No one in my family would call any of that "magic" and the word witch would never cross most of their lips. Again, my craft is just that, a craft. A job. A (cringe) hobby. It is JUST what I DO. Has nothing to do with what I "believe'.

Well, that cleared that up?

 

[PsyOps]

you didn'e see where she answered it?

She sort of answered it.

 

[MysticalMom]

Wow... a lot of contradictions here. So you practice what you don't believe? You don't have faith in the "craft" as it was intended? For instance casting spells.

I think I answered this pretty clearly.:shrug:

And how exactly was the craft "intended"? Do you have to have "FAITH" in your job or trade? :shrug: I learned my craft or job or trade in the same way a plumber or painter would learn his. It has NOTHING to do with religion or faith.

If it's not a religion to you then why would you be concerned whether it was included in with freedom of religion?

I clearly stated that Wicca IS a recognized religion but that I am not Wiccan. I don't "believe" in Christianity or Mormonism either, but I respect anyone's choice to believe what they want. I was concerned because freedom of religion, to me, should mean freedom of ALL religions. Pretty simple.

 

[Tinkerbell]

What is the "religion" in which you don't believe? Explain to me, patiently, why you don't believe in the "religion" called wicca.

ummm... I'm not understanding why you don't get this.

Wicca is a religion. So is Islam, Hindu, Janism, Taoism, Jewish, Baptist, Catholic, Quaker, Muslim, Mormon, Pagan, Satanism, etc. etc. etc. (the list goes on for pages and pages).

I choose to believe and practice the Catholic faith.

Just because I did not choose to believe the Wiccan faith, or any of the others, does not mean it or any of the others, is NOT a religion. It's just not the religion I chose to follow. It doesn't mean ANY of those other religions are ANY less important than mine, especially to those who believe in them.

How in the heck did this get turned around to me?????

 

[Cali Transplant]

I wonder who designed or chose the Atheist symbol? I think it's odd-looking, since atheists don't worship the atom. (I heard there was a three-way schism between the Protonians, the Electronites and the Neutronians.)

 

[MysticalMom]

Round and round the mulberry bush the monkey chased the weasel.

 

[PsyOps]

I think I answered this pretty clearly.:shrug:

And how exactly was the craft "intended"? Do you have to have "FAITH" in your job or trade? :shrug: I learned my craft or job or trade in the same way a plumber or painter would learn his. It has NOTHING to do with religion or faith.



I clearly stated that Wicca IS a recognized religion but that I am not Wiccan. I don't "believe" in Christianity or Mormonism either, but I respect anyone's choice to believe what they want. I was concerned because freedom of religion, to me, should mean freedom of ALL religions. Pretty simple.

You wrote today:

I do not speak for ANY Wiccans.

But your original post does speak for Wiccans.
You also wrote:

When I said my craft was what I "do" not what I believe

But you also wrote:

I read cards and tea leaves. I use a pendulum to help find lost things or to predict the sex of babies

Now when I hire a plumber, I have a certain belief he is going to fix my clogged sink. He will keep working at it until it is fixed. This belief is based on concrete physical evidence. Yours (predicting the future) requires a certain level of spiritual belief. You will either be right or wrong about it. So whether you are admitting it or not you hold a certain spiritual belief, and it points to some aspects of Wiccan.

That is my only point, that you seemed to contradict yourself. Outside of that I don't really care one way or the other.

 

[MysticalMom]

But your original post does speak for Wiccans.

If saying that I am glad they were recognized and can have their symbols on their resting place means I speak for all Wiccans, then I am also the spokesperson for all Christians, Jews, Jahovas, muslims, and every religion in the world.

Now when I hire a plumber, I have a certain belief he is going to fix my clogged sink. He will keep working at it until it is fixed. This belief is based on concrete physical evidence. Yours (predicting the future) requires a certain level of spiritual belief. You will either be right or wrong about it. So whether you are admitting it or not you hold a certain spiritual belief, and it points to some aspects of Wiccan.

You totally missed my point in comparing the two. Again, I don't know how to make it any clearer for you.

Yes I do hold with certain spiritual beliefs. I never said I didn't. I said I wasn't Wiccan and I wasn't religious. I believe we are interconnected with everyone and every thing, so we ARE "the cosmos," the all", "the divine". Instead of a higher power running the show, the show IS the power. I don’t worship or acknowledge deity or God or gods in any way, shape or form. I respect nature but I don’t see it as being ‘higher’ because it is the all, just as I am. For the same reason I don’t see witchcraft as a religion. Witchcraft is exactly that; a craft that when mastered, allows us to manipulate some of the unlimited energy of the Cosmos. It’s a skill set that can be integrated with religion if one chooses but as I don’t recognize religion, I see it as part of my existence.

Is that better? Sheesh.

 

[PsyOps]

If saying that I am glad they were recognized and can have their symbols on their resting place means I speak for all Wiccans, then I am also the spokesperson for all Christians, Jews, Jahovas, muslims, and every religion in the world.



You totally missed my point in comparing the two. Again, I don't know how to make it any clearer for you.

Yes I do hold with certain spiritual beliefs. I never said I didn't. I said I wasn't Wiccan and I wasn't religious. I believe we are interconnected with everyone and every thing, so we ARE "the cosmos," the all", "the divine". Instead of a higher power running the show, the show IS the power. I don’t worship or acknowledge deity or God or gods in any way, shape or form. I respect nature but I don’t see it as being ‘higher’ because it is the all, just as I am. For the same reason I don’t see witchcraft as a religion. Witchcraft is exactly that; a craft that when mastered, allows us to manipulate some of the unlimited energy of the Cosmos. It’s a skill set that can be integrated with religion if one chooses but as I don’t recognize religion, I see it as part of my existence.

Is that better? Sheesh.

Gotcha..........

 

[brendar buhl]

What I'm trying to figure out is what the Wiccan system of beliefs consists of. If we have people here who know maybe they can give me an answer. The only reason that I am focusing on MysticalMom and Tinkerbell is because you both have said that you practice the craft without "believing the religion".

I'm not saying that Wicca isn't a religion simply because I don't believe it. That would be ridiculous. If that were my point of view I wouldn't acknowledge any other religion than my own. I'm saying that it's not a religion because it has no belief system.

Some people say that wicca has a belief system but it's a secret and that to find out what it is you must first become a wiccan. This is silliness.

I never met a plumber who didn't believe that water flowed down hill.

 

[Beelzebaby666]

I give customers at work mustard for their hiccups and they call it magic....


I put limes on peoples foreheads when they have headaches and they call it magic..

I don't practice magic..... I know things:shrug:

:witchywoman:

 

[2ndAmendment]

I give customers at work mustard for their hiccups and they call it magic....


I put limes on peoples foreheads when they have headaches and they call it magic..

I don't practice magic..... I know things:shrug:

:witchywoman:

It is my belief that God has provided the cure for everything. While in the garden, we had no need of them just as we did not have to work to provide sustenance and shelter. We have forgotten what those cures are and have to find them.

 

[brendar buhl]

It is my belief that God has provided the cure for everything. While in the garden, we had no need of them just as we did not have to work to provide sustenance and shelter. We have forgotten what those cures are and have to find them.

Beelzebaby666 already found them...mustard and limes.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Beelzebaby666 already found them...mustard and limes.

Could be. Next time I get the hiccups or a headache, I have to give them a try. The mustard I can possibly see; the lime is a bit out there, but heck, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Maybe it is the volatile oils not the actual rubbing on the head or maybe it is just the rubbing of the head. :shrug:

 

[Cletus_Vandam]

Symbolism is a fascinating thing to research.

A person who I used to work with, worked previously for a State Government who had to remove all of the swastikas from the marble engravings found in many of their buildings.

The engravings originally had nothing to do with Hitler or Nazis, but the association was too close for many to accept.

That association isn't too different of the celtic cross being associated with white supremists....

 

[MysticalMom]

What I'm trying to figure out is what the Wiccan system of beliefs consists of. If we have people here who know maybe they can give me an answer. The only reason that I am focusing on MysticalMom and Tinkerbell is because you both have said that you practice the craft without "believing the religion".

I'm not saying that Wicca isn't a religion simply because I don't believe it. That would be ridiculous. If that were my point of view I wouldn't acknowledge any other religion than my own. I'm saying that it's not a religion because it has no belief system.

Some people say that wicca has a belief system but it's a secret and that to find out what it is you must first become a wiccan. This is silliness.

I never met a plumber who didn't believe that water flowed down hill.

This is a friend's website and might help you understand a little about the Wiccan religion, their belief system, principles and ethics. Click Here

 

[MysticalMom]

I give customers at work mustard for their hiccups and they call it magic....


I put limes on peoples foreheads when they have headaches and they call it magic..

I don't practice magic..... I know things:shrug:

:witchywoman:

Have I told you lately how much I love you??

 

[MysticalMom]

Wiccan Symbol OK on Mil... 04-25-2007 08:16 PM Were you born a freak or did you have to work on it?