Will House Dems impeach Trump?

[PsyOps]

trump is refusing to hand over thousands of documents and is blocking numerous witnesses from testifying. It’s exactly the same. The reality is that Nixon’s supporters didn’t think he had done anything wrong either.
Neither congressional oversight nor executive privilege depend on an underlying crime

I don't see them as even remotely analogous. Trump is exercising executive privilege and if this is out of line, the courts will say so.

Remember Fast and Furious? Obama refused to hand over documents that the House Oversight Committee demanded. It went to the courts, and he was ordered to hand the documents over. Was Obama EVER accused of obstruction of justice? Was it even mentioned? Where were you on that? Obstruction?

Did you know Obama refused to allow officials from the OPM to testify before a classified committee hearing investigating the hacking attack on the OPM? Where were you on that? What are your thoughts about it? Is that obstruction?

Do you remember when Obama refused to allow David Ploufe to testify before congress during an investigation into alleged illegal political activity in the White House? Was that obstruction?

Remember the investigation into the New Black Panther Party voter intimidation case, where Holder dropped the charges on the perps? The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights held an investigation in which Holder's DOJ ordered two key career attorneys not to comply with a subpoena. Obstruction?

Remember the couple that crashed a White House state dinner? White House staffers were subpoenaed to testify before congress and Obama cited "separation of powers" to refuse their testimony. Obstruction?

Solyndra? Same thing. Obstruction?

Do I really need to go on, that this is what presidents do? Only now, that we have a president you hate, EVERYTHING he does is considered some sort of crime. I mean the media reported that Trump committed the crime of tweeting and playing golf on Thanksgiving, when in reality he took a secret trip to Afghanistan to see the troops; and still they found a way to criticize him there. You people, in your pursuit to disparage, destroy, take down, impeach... this president has gone far beyond insane.

 

[Yooper]

The reality of the situation is that The Executive and The Legislative are CO-equal branches of government.

So claiming "obstruction" is an attempt by The Legislative at persuasion (directed at both The Executive and the general public) while The Executive counters with "executive privilege" (directed at The Legislative and the general public).

What makes this interesting is that the third CO-equal branch - The Judicial - doesn't necessarily get the last word. Yes, the Constitution assigns the role of mediating/arbitrating between The Legislative and The Executive to SCOTUS, but the effectiveness of The Judicial relies ENTIRELY on the good will of the other two. Unlike The Legislative (which has the power of the purse) and The Executive (which has the power of legal violence) the Supreme Court has no means for enforcing its decisions. While Andrew Jackson never actually said it* about John Marshall's SCOTUS decision (Georgia v. Worcester), the anecdote does contain more than an element of truth about the way our Federal government is constructed.

Fortunately, other factors come into play as means of compelling the three branches of government to ultimately cooperate. The ballot box, the 1A, and the 2A come immediately to mind.

* Something to the effect of, "Well, Marshall made his decision, now let him enforce it."

--- End of line (MCP)

 

[Midnightrider]

I don't see them as even remotely analogous. Trump is exercising executive privilege and if this is out of line, the courts will say so.

Remember Fast and Furious? Obama refused to hand over documents that the House Oversight Committee demanded. It went to the courts, and he was ordered to hand the documents over. Was Obama EVER accused of obstruction of justice? Was it even mentioned? Where were you on that? Obstruction?

Did you know Obama refused to allow officials from the OPM to testify before a classified committee hearing investigating the hacking attack on the OPM? Where were you on that? What are your thoughts about it? Is that obstruction?

Do you remember when Obama refused to allow David Ploufe to testify before congress during an investigation into alleged illegal political activity in the White House? Was that obstruction?

Remember the investigation into the New Black Panther Party voter intimidation case, where Holder dropped the charges on the perps? The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights held an investigation in which Holder's DOJ ordered two key career attorneys not to comply with a subpoena. Obstruction?

Remember the couple that crashed a White House state dinner? White House staffers were subpoenaed to testify before congress and Obama cited "separation of powers" to refuse their testimony. Obstruction?

Solyndra? Same thing. Obstruction?

Do I really need to go on, that this is what presidents do? Only now, that we have a president you hate, EVERYTHING he does is considered some sort of crime. I mean the media reported that Trump committed the crime of tweeting and playing golf on Thanksgiving, when in reality he took a secret trip to Afghanistan to see the troops; and still they found a way to criticize him there. You people, in your pursuit to disparage, destroy, take down, impeach... this president has gone far beyond insane.

There is a lot of projection in your post. I am morally consistent and believe that many of the cases you describe, fast and furious being an obvious example, were obstruction. I am sure if the GOP thought they could have proven Obama did that for personal political gain they would have pursued impeachment.
It has always been my opinion that congressional oversight should be as all encompassing as possible. That’s how we avoid potus becoming more powerful than congress.

 

[Stjohns3269]

A. He's under no obligation or requirement to release.

B. If you believe that anything will end if Trump caves, you are sadly mistaken. The vitriolic hatred will just morph into a new lie.



And, if those subpoenas had enforcement authority, they would have enforced them. The subpoenas didn't, so the committee did everything it could: nothing.



These are the facts. Like them or not, agree with the reality or not, these are the facts.

Wrong as usual. They said publicly they would be treated as obstruction of justice and theta charge would be added to Trumps impeachment charges.

If only you understood the definition of a fact constantly droning on about conspiracy theories as though they have any basis in reality and then dismissing proveable widely reported and and in many instances directly quoted and proven facts

It’s sad to see otherwise intelligent people dragged so low by a charlatan.
What will it take to wake you up?

Even once Trump resigns in exchange for a non prosecution agreement you will claim the deep state had it out for him and the charges were all made up. Just like you’ve dismissed the arrest and prosecution of 8 of his closest advisors as coincidence.

Are any of you guys in the market for some cheap in Florida?

 

[officeguy]

Wrong as usual. They said publicly they would be treated as obstruction of justice and theta charge would be added to Trumps impeachment charges.

Just because some ill informed congress critters say so doesn't mean that this will be an actual part of the impeachment charges. Those are written by real lawyers and lots of legal energy goes into getting them right. Something that is just part of the normal legal process (challenging the legality of a legislative subpoena and forcing the other side to file suit) is not obstruction, its just business as usual in the relationship between the legislative and executive branch. As quoted further up, the executive keeping their members from testifying is hardly unprecedented and goes back ooh, like a hundred and fifty years.

 

[GURPS]

.... constantly droning on about conspiracy theories .....

that is YOU Sapidus droning on and on and on, that Schiff's hearings Proved ANY Illegalities

Even once Trump resigns in exchange for a non prosecution agreement

yeah that is a nice progressive fantasy, but that is NOT Happening - what REASON does Trump have to resign ?
No Illegality have been proven, only differing OPINION on Policy, some Trump is allowed to do Negotiate .... Do X to get Y.

Biden does not get a pass on what his son was involved in, just because he is running for office.

Trump will be reelected and he will Replace RGB

Just like you’ve dismissed the arrest and prosecution of 8 of his closest advisors as coincidence.

Other than Manifort - WHAT Crimes Exactly ?

 

[Grumpy]

Wrong as usual. They said publicly they would be treated as obstruction of justice and theta charge would be added to Trumps impeachment charges.

If only you understood the definition of a fact constantly droning on about conspiracy theories as though they have any basis in reality and then dismissing proveable widely reported and and in many instances directly quoted and proven facts

It’s sad to see otherwise intelligent people dragged so low by a charlatan.
What will it take to wake you up?

Even once Trump resigns in exchange for a non prosecution agreement you will claim the deep state had it out for him and the charges were all made up. Just like you’ve dismissed the arrest and prosecution of 8 of his closest advisors as coincidence.

Are any of you guys in the market for some cheap in Florida?

You really need to either see a doctor or pack your crap up and go to some other country.

 

[This_person]

Wrong as usual. They said publicly they would be treated as obstruction of justice and theta charge would be added to Trumps impeachment charges.

That may be true, but they also said they have conclusive evidence Trump worked with Russia. They have been wrong far more often than they have been right, they lie like they won't get caught, and their claims of treating it like obstruction doesn't make it obstruction.

Even once Trump resigns in exchange for a non prosecution agreement you will claim the deep state had it out for him and the charges were all made up.

What will you do when that never happens?

 

[Merlin99]

Wrong as usual. They said publicly they would be treated as obstruction of justice and theta charge would be added to Trumps impeachment charges.

If only you understood the definition of a fact constantly droning on about conspiracy theories as though they have any basis in reality and then dismissing proveable widely reported and and in many instances directly quoted and proven facts

It’s sad to see otherwise intelligent people dragged so low by a charlatan.
What will it take to wake you up?

Even once Trump resigns in exchange for a non prosecution agreement you will claim the deep state had it out for him and the charges were all made up. Just like you’ve dismissed the arrest and prosecution of 8 of his closest advisors as coincidence.

Are any of you guys in the market for some cheap in Florida?

Are you trying for a record of how many times you can be wrong per MPD. This one seems to be going for a record.

 

[PsyOps]

There is a lot of projection in your post. I am morally consistent and believe that many of the cases you describe, fast and furious being an obvious example, were obstruction. I am sure if the GOP thought they could have proven Obama did that for personal political gain they would have pursued impeachment.
It has always been my opinion that congressional oversight should be as all encompassing as possible. That’s how we avoid potus becoming more powerful than congress.

There's no projection. I stated facts. Every one of those example were a president exercising executive privilege to withhold information. Not once did republicans call for impeachment. You liberals are just petty in this whole thing.

Republicans aren't full of the foaming hatred like democrats are. They don't have the vindictiveness that democrats have. Perhaps they should. All you have to do is look at what liberals do on our college campuses shutting down any conservative speakers, liberals losing their cool when they see a MAGA hat, throwing cement laden milkshakes at conservative reporters putting him in the hospital, ANTIFA committing acts of violence. The list is pretty long in vile behavior form the left.

While you're talking about congress keeping Trump in check, who's keeping congress in check? Not you, or congress has convinced me Trump committed any impeachable offense. All I've seen is a bunch whining, angry people over the reality that Trump won. You have to be reminded over and over that these people were talking impeachment the day Trump was elected. This was planned out from the beginning.

 

[Merlin99]

Republicans aren't full of the foaming hatred like democrats are. They don't have the vindictiveness that democrats have. Perhaps they should. All you have to do is look at what liberals do on our college campuses shutting down any conservative speakers, liberals losing their cool when they see a MAGA hat, throwing cement laden milkshakes at conservative reporters putting him in the hospital, ANTIFA committing acts of violence. The list is pretty long in vile behavior form the left.

While you're talking about congress keeping Trump in check, who's keeping congress in check? Not you, or congress has convinced me Trump committed any impeachable offense. All I've seen in a bunch whining, angry people over the reality that Trump won. You have to be reminded over and over that theses people were talking impeachment the day Trump was elected. This was planned out from the beginning.

You'd think that after spending this much time on it they'd have built a better story, this one is kind of pathetic.

 

[Grumpy]

 

[Pete]

They likely will no matter what. The funny thing is that they have now turned Impeachment into a typical everyday thing and every president form now on out will get impeached and it will be "No big thing"

 

[Midnightrider]

There's no projection. I stated facts. Every one of those example were a president exercising executive privilege to withhold information. Not once did republicans call for impeachment. You liberals are just petty in this whole thing.

Republicans aren't full of the foaming hatred like democrats are. They don't have the vindictiveness that democrats have. Perhaps they should. All you have to do is look at what liberals do on our college campuses shutting down any conservative speakers, liberals losing their cool when they see a MAGA hat, throwing cement laden milkshakes at conservative reporters putting him in the hospital, ANTIFA committing acts of violence. The list is pretty long in vile behavior form the left.

While you're talking about congress keeping Trump in check, who's keeping congress in check? Not you, or congress has convinced me Trump committed any impeachable offense. All I've seen is a bunch whining, angry people over the reality that Trump won. You have to be reminded over and over that these people were talking impeachment the day Trump was elected. This was planned out from the beginning.

nice rant about how evil liberal are and how 'not full of foaming hatred' you are......

like I said, there is a lot of projection in your post.

 

[Kyle]

They likely will no matter what. The funny thing is that they have now turned Impeachment into a typical everyday thing and every president form now on out will get impeached and it will be "No big thing"

Republicans should start working on Articles of Impeachement for the next Democrat elected right now and just leave the name blank.

 

[PsyOps]

nice rant about how evil liberal are and how 'not full of foaming hatred' you are......

like I said, there is a lot of projection in your post.

Your liberal bias is leaking. You obviously don't pay attention to what's happening out there in this country. Tell you what... wear yourself a red MAGA hat and walk down the streets of, let's say, Chicago and let me know what happens. And I'll wear a, let's say, Bernei Sanders 2020 shirt and walk down name your rural country bumpkin town street, and I'll report to you what happens.

My prediction: You'll get a firm ass whoopin' and I'll get laughed at - at most.

 

[Midnightrider]

Your liberal bias is leaking. You obviously don't pay attention to what's happening out there in this country. Tell you what... wear yourself a red MAGA hat and walk down the streets of, let's say, Chicago and let me know what happens. And I'll wear a, let's say, Bernei Sanders 2020 shirt and walk down name your rural country bumpkin town street, and I'll report to you what happens.

My prediction: You'll get a firm ass whoopin' and I'll get laughed at - at most.

how about you go to a trump rally wearing your Bernie hat. there are plenty of instances of trumpers being violent, you just give them all a pass.

like I said, you project an awful lot. It is especially telling that you have to paint me as an evil liberal just because I don't think trump walks on water.

 

[PsyOps]

how about you go to a trump rally wearing your Bernie hat. there are plenty of instances of trumpers being violent, you just give them all a pass.

like I said, you project an awful lot. It is especially telling that you have to paint me as an evil liberal just because I don't think trump walks on water.

You can call my points whatever you want. Facts are facts. I have seen enough of Trump rallies to know it was protesters that incited the violence. Yes, there is one instance where a protester was being escorted from a rally and a Trump supporter sucker punched him. Yes, there is Charlottesville; but I can't make any attachment to Trump at all. You don't see republican members of congress calling for people to find Hillary supporters and get in their faces and tell them they aren't welcome anywhere. You don't have conservatives screaming liberals out of restaurants. You don't see former conservative governors losing their temper at liberals at a bar because they disagree with their policies.

What you don't see from conservatives is groups like ANTIFA and BLM committing outright acts of violence and riots, going around throwing eggs, cement laden milkshakes, spitting, you name it... you can't find it. It's not there. I think ANTIFA should be deemed a domestic terrorist group.

But your assertion that the violence on the right exists anywhere near the violence coming from the left is blatantly false.

 

[Stjohns3269]

You can call my points whatever you want. Facts are facts. I have seen enough of Trump rallies to know it was protesters that incited the violence. Yes, there is one instance where a protester was being escorted from a rally and a Trump supporter sucker punched him. Yes, there is Charlottesville; but I can't make any attachment to Trump at all. You don't see republican members of congress calling for people to find Hillary supporters and get in their faces and tell them they aren't welcome anywhere. You don't have conservatives screaming liberals out of restaurants. You don't see former conservative governors losing their temper at liberals at a bar because they disagree with their policies.

What you don't see from conservatives is groups like ANTIFA and BLM committing outright acts of violence and riots, going around throwing eggs, cement laden milkshakes, spitting, you name it... you can't find it. It's not there. I think ANTIFA should be deemed a domestic terrorist group.

But your assertion that the violence on the right exists anywhere near the violence coming from the left is blatantly false.

You have anecdotal evidence piped to you via Fox News VS actual data , facts and statistics:

Trump Hate Map

This map shows documented instances where Donald Trump, his supporters, or his staff harassed or attacked Latinos and immigrants.

americasvoice.org

The Effect of President Trump's Election on Hate Crimes

This Essay empirically evaluates the relationship between Donald Trump’s rise to power and the recent increase in reported hate crimes. A number of critics pred

papers.ssrn.com

 

[Gilligan]

Trump Hate Map

This map shows documented instances where Donald Trump, his supporters, or his staff harassed or attacked Latinos and immigrants.

americasvoice.org

The Effect of President Trump's Election on Hate Crimes

This Essay empirically evaluates the relationship between Donald Trump’s rise to power and the recent increase in reported hate crimes. A number of critics pred

papers.ssrn.com