Words From Elon Musk
- Thread starter GURPS
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Toxick
Splat
Believing your opinion is the correct one and open-mindedness are not mutually exclusive conditions.
I have often said something very similar to what the woman in your example has said, particularly when discussing religion - right here in these very fourms.
Them -> You Christians and your God.... you believe that only your religion is the right one and everyone else is wrong.
Me-> Well.... yeah - why would I believe in something I think is wrong.
This does not mean that I have shut off the input valve, or that I am incapable of changing my opinion/belief in the face of new data.
However, as it stands now, I unashamedly admit that I believe that EVERY SINGLE ONE of my:
- Religious beliefs
- Political views
- Social values
- Sets of ethics
- Food choices
... Are, indeed, the correct ones.
To believe in anything else is nothing more than cognitive dissonance, and frankly stupid.
This isn't close-mindedness. This is the definition of "opinion"
The problem is when you believe your opinion is fact.
You must recognize your opinion is just that. That's when you become an ass hole.
THIS..... This is the heart of the problem IMO.
Every time I get into a discussion with a leftist, when I express a contrary view, they immediately become extremely defensive and hostile, as if I didn't say I thought they were wrong, but as if what I said was not only a personal affront, but that I have intentions of physically harming them.
They bandy about terms like "objectively harmful" when there is no such thing in the arena of ideals.
To be fair, when I get into it with a conservative, they have a less hostile response, but every bit as contemptuous and with the closed-off avenue of communication where they express sincere doubt in my intelligence, even after having demonstrated that I'm not a slobbering cow. When discussing with conservatives, I often hear statements like:
"You seem so smart, why are you so stupid on this subject"
The hubris expressed in this statement is no less than decrying an opinion as "objectively harmful".
If someone seems smart otherwise, then perhaps their opinion may possibly have some merit, and deserves a shred more respect and consideration. I've always said, "What value is a good reputation if it means nothing in the face of doubt"
OccamsRazor
Well-Known Member
I would concur with this statement 100% for the majority of discussions on this very forum.
My favorites go something like this:
Member 1: "Here is my opinion and it is written in stone!"
Member 2: "Well, here is some data to back up my opinion and it is different from yours."
Member 1: "Your opinion is crap and mine is right so..."
Member 2: "Ok... show me some data (like I did) to back up your opinion."
Member 1: "Your handlers are telling you that. My opinion is right!"
Member 2: "Where is the data to prove your opinion?"
Member 1: Exits conversation.....
This occurs on the daily
In the Bible - right after the verses about Love is patient, love is kind, which people love to read - Paul goes on to say that we see through a mirror darkly - but then face to face. A future in which we will all understand things much better.
Because the "love" chapter isn't specifically talking about love - it's an extension of the previous chapters, because they are all arguing about who has gifts, and who's greater, and Paul admonishes them at the end of his remarks, saying if you don't have love, all of your miraculous gifts don't mean a thing.
BUT - we are all moving closer to a better understanding of everything - God, life, religion - but we don't see it all right now. We just see a very dim picture of it now.
Sort of "Farther Along, We'll Know All About It".
So what I think and believe in and about God - it's a handful of pieces in a GIANT puzzle. One day, I'll see all of it. I believe I see ENOUGH of them to know that.
I take this persepctive to most things in life - I think this or that, but I really don't have all the answers, or even the best answer, and I have lived long enough to see things that I thought were right didn't work all the time, worked only in a few places, positively didn't work with EVERYONE -
I didn't really know everythign about it - just ENOUGH.
That's the way I function, because I've BEEN THROUGH the ringer of absolutism in things like religion - where THIS one is the right one - and then THIS one is the right one - and the previous one wasn't. I can't do that with my mind - give something my 100% faith is true, only for it to blow up completely - and for me to THEN believe the NEXT one, 100%. I prefer to think that I never REALLY know it all. I'm not an absolutist, I'm a pragmatist. If your stupid, insane ridiculous idea - WORKS - I'm willing to listen.
Anything else - it's like this old joke I heard - where you believe JUST you're right ---
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, “Don’t do it!”
He said, “Nobody loves me.”
I said, “God loves you. Do you believe in God?” He said, “Yes.”
I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?”
He said, “A Christian.”
I said, “Me, too!
Protestant or Catholic?” He said, “Protestant.”
I said, “Me, too! What franchise?” He said, “Baptist.”
I said, “Me, too!
Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?”
He said, “Northern Baptist.” I said, “
Me, too!
Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”
He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist.”
I said, “Me, too!
Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?”
He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.”
I said, “Me, too!”
Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?”
He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.”
I said, “Die, heretic!” And I pushed him over.
Another forum I post on there is someone who uses that logic. He says they are facts when all they are is other people's opinions that he agrees with.
OccamsRazor
Well-Known Member
Plenty of people use that very logic on here...
What I often run into, when discussing issues - with people I KNOW - and it's something that we at least have a nuanced difference of opinion - is what I call "The Wall". It happens even with very intelligent people - if you say that - for example, you voted for Trump, the wall starts to go up where they are no longer interested in examples, facts, remarks or even reasonable conclusions - they've decided you're wrong. You said the wrong word.
I have a sister like this - mention DAD in a conversation, she gets quiet and slowly fades out. You brought up someone she has a different opinion on, and she's really not listening to anything you say. KEEP talking, and she'll leave the room. And before any reader concludes there's more to it, there isn't. She just didn't care for him. Same with my brother and THAT same sister's daughter, who also died. He feels that she was praised in death far beyond what she was in life - a very troubled teen who died tragically. Bring her up in conversation, and you can almost SEE the Wall go up. Talk more on it, and he will get argumentative about anything, really. You've pressed a button.
I've been with adults discussing COVID and when I mention any of the many issues and how I think this or that, you can almost see the words above their head "Yeah well you voted for Trump and you were probably in the Great Insurrection and you probably have a million guns and believe everything the Orange Man says and blah blah" and when I see that look, I realize - the Wall is there. No way to have a pleasant discussion with this person, on the topic. They have their opinions - and now newly formed opinions of YOU, however inaccurate.
I have a sister like this - mention DAD in a conversation, she gets quiet and slowly fades out. You brought up someone she has a different opinion on, and she's really not listening to anything you say. KEEP talking, and she'll leave the room. And before any reader concludes there's more to it, there isn't. She just didn't care for him. Same with my brother and THAT same sister's daughter, who also died. He feels that she was praised in death far beyond what she was in life - a very troubled teen who died tragically. Bring her up in conversation, and you can almost SEE the Wall go up. Talk more on it, and he will get argumentative about anything, really. You've pressed a button.
I've been with adults discussing COVID and when I mention any of the many issues and how I think this or that, you can almost see the words above their head "Yeah well you voted for Trump and you were probably in the Great Insurrection and you probably have a million guns and believe everything the Orange Man says and blah blah" and when I see that look, I realize - the Wall is there. No way to have a pleasant discussion with this person, on the topic. They have their opinions - and now newly formed opinions of YOU, however inaccurate.
CNN and MSNBC use that logic all of the time. The disproven stolen vote and the big lie, the only facts they've used for either of these statements is to keep repeating it until it becomes a "fact".
OccamsRazor
Well-Known Member
To be fair, it is not just the Liberal minds that are doing this (on here)
Re-read my post above and see if it reminds you of any conversations on here.
Not recently but we used to have this weird character named Chrissy-0 or some such and it reads a lot like him.
Thank goodness hes gone.
OccamsRazor
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that this does not happen now? 'Cause that's just not true.
I'm just saying I haven't noticed it since he left.
