your god

PsyOps

Pixelated
JPC sr said:
:coffee: That means that Christ paid the full penalty for all of mankind so all of our sins are forgiven 2000 years ago and so everybody gets saved in the end whether anyone likes it or not.

There is no condition to it, no strings attached, clear and simple message - that the sins are forgiven once and for all.

Here is a Bible reference as proof, Romans 14:10-12 NIV, everybody will get saved.

and a second Bible text as proof, 2 Peter 3-9 NIV, nobody gets left out.

There are many more Bible verses that each declare that same message that everybody gets saved.

The challenge is not for our after-life but for the here and now, live in the present. :snacks:
I wish I had one of those big buzzers like on the game shows.

BUZZZZZ.... Wrong answer JPC!

Come on man, you know John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
How about John 3:3 and 3:5
"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

And then there is John 14:6
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me”

Acts 4:12
"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved"

And if you do not come to Christ AND REPENT OF YOUR SINS you wont see God and you wont see paradise. Luke 13:3
"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

Romans 10:9-10
“…if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation”

And not only do you have to believe in order to be saved, but a true believer will be compelled to do the good work of the Lord, and by not doing so, you have not truly obtained such faith and salvation. James 2:20
"But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?"

Not everyone gets saved JPC. Your verses state that when we are all called to judgement every knee will bow, but not every soul will find salvation; if they did not believe. By the time we come to judgement it will be too late. It's like committing a crime then going to the judge and having to be help accountable for it. By the time you find yourself in front of the judge it is too late.

And God does want everyone to be saved but not everyone will be. You must come to Christ and change your life accordingly.
 
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JPC sr

James P. Cusick Sr.
Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

PsyOps said:
I wish I had one of those big buzzers like on the game shows.

BUZZZZZ.... Wrong answer JPC!

Come on man, you know John 3:16
How about John 3:3 and 3:5
And then there is John 14:6
Acts 4:12
And if you do not come to Christ AND REPENT OF YOUR SINS you wont see God and you wont see paradise. Luke 13:3
Romans 10:9-10
And not only do you have to believe in order to be saved, but a true believer will be compelled to do the good work of the Lord, and by not doing so, you have not truly obtained such faith and salvation. James 2:20

Not everyone gets saved JPC. Your verses state that when we are all called to judgement every knee will bow, but not every soul will find salvation; if they did not believe. By the time we come to judgement it will be too late. It's like committing a crime then going to the judge and having to be help accountable for it. By the time you find yourself in front of the judge it is too late.

And God does want everyone to be saved but not everyone will be. You must come to Christ and change your life accordingly.
:jameo: Saying that a person must go to Christ or that a persom must first believe, or any condition means that Christ did not die for everybody and He did.

The Bible verse I qutoed see HERE is specifically talking about the "Judgement Day" and it is then that everybody gets saved. It is not required to be saved now as that will happen later. Putting a requirement on the free gift of Christ sacrifice is a false requirement because the forgiveness is already done and complete for everybody everywhere for all time. Salvation is already prepared and we all get saved and rightly so.

P.S.

I do know that mainstream Christianity teaches as PsyOps quoted above and I do not wish to challenge their beliefs as it is irrelevant to me and my faith, but I say this truth in this post for the other people that seek a more correct approach.

Rock and roll. :larry:
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
JPC sr said:
:jameo: Saying that a person must go to Christ or that a persom must first believe, or any condition means that Christ did not die for everybody and He did.

The Bible verse I qutoed see HERE is specifically talking about the "Judgement Day" and it is then that everybody gets saved. It is not required to be saved now as that will happen later. Putting a requirement on the free gift of Christ sacrifice is a false requirement because the forgiveness is already done and complete for everybody everywhere for all time. Salvation is already prepared and we all get saved and rightly so.

P.S.

I do know that mainstream Christianity teaches as PsyOps quoted above and I do not wish to challenge their beliefs as it is irrelevant to me and my faith, but I say this truth in this post for the other people that seek a more correct approach.

Rock and roll. :larry:
KMart is a store that is there for everyone. Does that mean everyone shops there? No! Christ did die for everyone. But you MUST believe. If you want to believe you can la-dee-da through life and think you are going to heaven in the end then I would encourage you to re-examine this. It's a false belief. I provided quotes directly from the bible that states this fact. You are rejecting it for your own definition of salvation.
 
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PsyOps

Pixelated
JPC sr said:
The Bible verse I qutoed see HERE is specifically talking about the "Judgement Day" and it is then that everybody gets saved. It is not required to be saved now as that will happen later.
The quote you provide only means that on the Day of Judgment EVERYONE will stand before God and be judged. Those that did not believe will believe on that day because they will see in front of them that which they did not believe. GOD! Butit will be too late. They will be compelled to kneel and acknowledge their sins. Nothing will be hidden and all will have no choice but to confess their sins and answer to God. Then God will ask if they have accept him (Christ) as their savior. He already knows the answer. If the answer is no, their soul will be cast to hell.

Mat 7:13-14
"The gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it"

Mat 22:14
"Many are invited, but few are chosen"

Luke 13:23-30
Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' "But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.' "Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.' "But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!' "There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last."
 

JPC sr

James P. Cusick Sr.
Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

PsyOps said:
The quote you provide only means that on the Day of Judgment EVERYONE will stand before God and be judged. Those that did not believe will believe on that day because they will see in front of them that which they did not believe. GOD! Butit will be too late. They will be compelled to kneel and acknowledge their sins. Nothing will be hidden and all will have no choice but to confess their sins and answer to God. Then God will ask if they have accept him (Christ) as their savior. He already knows the answer. If the answer is no, their soul will be cast to hell.

Mat 7:13-14


Mat 22:14


Luke 13:23-30
:popcorn: Not, One of the reasons for crucifying Christ was his commandment to love your enemies.

If anyone went to a Hell (which is not a real place) then God would not be loving His enemies - if anyone does not get saved then Christ words would not be true, everybody gets forgiven and everyone gets saved on judgement Day because we love our enemies and so does God because He said so.

That is Bible preaching. :starcat:
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
JPC sr said:
:popcorn: Not, One of the reasons for crucifying Christ was his commandment to love your enemies.

If anyone went to a Hell (which is not a real place) then God would not be loving His enemies - if anyone does not get saved then Christ words would not be true, everybody gets forgiven and everyone gets saved on judgement Day because we love our enemies and so does God because He said so.

That is Bible preaching. :starcat:
Interesting. Why would... NO... Why should God accept those that did not accept Him? If I told you to get out of the street because a car was coming to hit you and you ignored me, then got hit by that car, does that mean I didn't care about you? Yet, you rejected my advice and YOU paid the consequences. God does not give a free ride here. He set us with laws and rules to follow, the big rule being to commit to Him and Christ.

As far as there not being a hell...

Deu 32:22
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

Psa 55:15
Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in ther dwellings, and among them.

Mat 5:29
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Mat 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

James 3:6
And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

Rev 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
 

JPC sr

James P. Cusick Sr.
Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

PsyOps said:
Interesting. Why would... NO... Why should God accept those that did not accept Him?
:coffee: Because that is the way God is recorded to be. He accepts those that are wrong and dirty and sinfilled. He loves His enemies, and does right to those that despitefully uses Him. He forgives all mankind unconditionally.
PsyOps said:
If I told you to get out of the street because a car was coming to hit you and you ignored me, then got hit by that car, does that mean I didn't care about you? Yet, you rejected my advice and YOU paid the consequences. God does not give a free ride here.
:coffee: Yes God does give a free ride, it was paid in full for us all, completely free it is. Even when people do choose to do wrong and those that know better but do wrong anyway, those that are the biggest enemies of God are given His free gift of eternal life and full unconditional forgivesness. That was the basic point of the cross that the price was paid in full for everybody.
PsyOps said:
He set us with laws and rules to follow, the big rule being to commit to Him and Christ.
:coffee: We do have rules but the only punishment is here and now on earth but not after death because that is all forgiven already. Sin has no punishment after death because the price is paid in full by the cross for everyone. If some one does wrong now then the police will get them and man's law will punish the person because we reap what we sow but at death then it is over until the Judgement Day where even the worse of the worse will be rightly forgiven and saved from punishment.
PsyOps said:
As far as there not being a hell...
Deu 32:22
Psa 55:15
Mat 5:29
Mat 16:18
James 3:6
Rev 20:14
:coffee: The word hell means the grave in the Bible and people made that to mean some fire and torment but the people gave hell a wrong meaning.

The very idea of "hell" as a place of torment defies the very essance of Christ dying for sinners.

If He did not die for sinners then we are all lost, but the price was paid in full. :getdown:
 

hvp05

Methodically disorganized
JPC sr said:
That was the basic point of the cross that the price was paid in full for everybody.
I'm not a Christian and even I understand how wrong you are.

I would attempt another analogy, but such things are obviously bouncing right off. There is no helping the man who creates his own definition of everything and resists reality to the end.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
JPC has been told from the pulpit of a church at least twice by two different ministers that he is wrong and is proclaiming a message from the pits of hell, but he only believes the voices in his mind.

There is no use arguing with a crazy person.
 

ItalianScallion

Harley Rider
2ndAmendment said:
JPC has been told from the pulpit of a church at least twice by two different ministers that he is wrong and is proclaiming a message from the pits of hell, but he only believes the voices in his mind.
There is no use arguing......
:yeahthat:
Sorry JPC, but the cults can't even reconcile those teachings. This is why I haven't responded too much to this post lately. Even with the truth, you won't change your mind. Please listen & reconsider my friend, Jesus calls everyone but only some respond & are saved (Matthew 22v14) and (Matthew 7v21-23).
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
JPC sr said:
:coffee: Because that is the way God is recorded to be. He accepts those that are wrong and dirty and sinfilled. He loves His enemies, and does right to those that despitefully uses Him. He forgives all mankind unconditionally. :coffee: Yes God does give a free ride, it was paid in full for us all, completely free it is. Even when people do choose to do wrong and those that know better but do wrong anyway, those that are the biggest enemies of God are given His free gift of eternal life and full unconditional forgivesness. That was the basic point of the cross that the price was paid in full for everybody. :coffee: We do have rules but the only punishment is here and now on earth but not after death because that is all forgiven already. Sin has no punishment after death because the price is paid in full by the cross for everyone. If some one does wrong now then the police will get them and man's law will punish the person because we reap what we sow but at death then it is over until the Judgement Day where even the worse of the worse will be rightly forgiven and saved from punishment. :coffee: The word hell means the grave in the Bible and people made that to mean some fire and torment but the people gave hell a wrong meaning.

The very idea of "hell" as a place of torment defies the very essance of Christ dying for sinners.

If He did not die for sinners then we are all lost, but the price was paid in full. :getdown:
I will answer with this... Rev 20:13-15:

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

John 3:16

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
 

brendar buhl

Doesn't seem Christian
Yeah, JPC has run aground here. He makes Christ to be a liar one way or another. Jesus says explicitly that if you don't forgive others your Heavenly Father will not forgive you. JPC does not attempt to reconcile anything he is standing on one statement to the oblivion of all other statements. It is important to understand who the audience was when something is written. It is also important to balance your interpretation of scripture against other scripture.

Many in the past have run aground because they tried to reconcile all of the mysteries of God with human understanding. Origen was one. He had some great ideas and was an extraordinary teacher but wound up being labeled a heretic because of his stance on "Universality of the Redemption and the Final Restoration". He came to this idea not by Biblical study but by philosophy and decided that since all rational creatures have an identical beginning they must have an identical end.
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
PsyOps said:
Interesting. Why would... NO... Why should God accept those that did not accept Him? If I told you to get out of the street because a car was coming to hit you and you ignored me, then got hit by that car, does that mean I didn't care about you? Yet, you rejected my advice and YOU paid the consequences. God does not give a free ride here. He set us with laws and rules to follow, the big rule being to commit to Him and Christ.
those are rules set by the church, and the people who wrote those passages. But that is beside the point.
To answer the question of why would/should, we obviously cant unterstand god, so why should we try to attach any reason or logic here? But think about your analogy.... If the person had gotten struck by the car after you had warned them, would you render assitance? even after they had ignored you? of course you would, its human nature, you feel compelled it that situation, i would think that is how god is when you are standing in front of him on judgement day.... where do you think you get that "need" to help someone in distress?
 

High EGT

Gort! Klaatu barada nikto
Originally Posted by slaphappynmd
If that helps you get through the day, so be it. But I don't need to believe in some imaginary being to be content in my life. Life is life. No reason to sit and worry about what "god" thinks of you, and living by "his" rules so you go to "heaven" Thats just a bunch of BS. But hey, if you need that in your life, you can have it.

High EGT said:
Now your starting understand what it is to have faith. You have faith in the belief that there is no God no nothing beyond what you cannot see or touch. We of religious faith have the belief there is something much grander then what we can actually see or touch. Call it an insurance policy but I'm putting my money that there is a God and frankly this makes me feel safer as I get on toward that time we all must eventually face :coffee:

Sad that a Red Karma cord was struck in order to feel you have the last word on this subject. Unfortunatly you have my sympathy. :frown:
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Midnightrider said:
those are rules set by the church, and the people who wrote those passages. But that is beside the point.
To answer the question of why would/should, we obviously cant unterstand god, so why should we try to attach any reason or logic here? But think about your analogy.... If the person had gotten struck by the car after you had warned them, would you render assitance? even after they had ignored you? of course you would, its human nature, you feel compelled it that situation, i would think that is how god is when you are standing in front of him on judgement day.... where do you think you get that "need" to help someone in distress?
First of all this answer was to JPC, who is claiming (in a very strange way) to be a believer. I don’t’ expect non-believers to accept (although I’m sure you understand the concepts in theory) anything I post here about this. As far as your counter-analogy, mine was meant to be final. That person was killed by the car. No assistance would change that. As well with God, once you stand in front of him it is too late. I have provided the bible quotes to substantiate this. I do not get the luxury of going around the globe murdering people, without remorse or repentance, and expect God to forgive me at judgment day. And God does not view any one sin worse than any other. If I am a murder and you are not, yet we both do not accept Christ, we both will be thrown into the “lake of fire” in the end.

This is your time to be helped in your time of distress. Now is the time you are given the opportunity to get it right. Just as when you stand in front of a judge when convicted of murder, the judge will render his judgment and should render the appropriate penalty. You had your change to not commit that murder but you chose to. Just like we have judgment on this earth, standing in front of God on judgment day is no different except God is giving you the change to accept Christ. That is the condition. I didn’t make the rule, God did. By the time you get in front of Him, you had better already made that decision.
 

forever jewel

Green Eyed Lady
Each religion was developed from a collaboration of individual interpretations of God's law, whether it be Christianity, Judaism, etc. By suggesting that the interpretation you follow to be the one true interpretation is arrogant; how do you know that your religion is superior to every other religion in existence?

Is it wrong to say that religion is a guide to enhancing one's spiritual connection with God? God would rather us not fight over what religion is right, but accept the commonality that those individuals of every religion found a way to him.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
forever jewel said:
Each religion was developed from a collaboration of individual interpretations of God's law, whether it be Christianity, Judaism, etc. By suggesting that the interpretation you follow to be the one true interpretation is arrogant; how do you know that your religion is superior to every other religion in existence?

Were those individuals that wrote their “interpretations of God’s law” arrogant for having their own interpretations? I’m not sure if your post is directed at me, but I will say that I constantly seek the truth. I don’t, for one instant, claim that MY interpretation is IT. Every time I open the Bible I am humbled by what I read and do my best (although sometimes ever-so-poorly) to convey my understanding of God’s law (Word).

Is it wrong to say that religion is a guide to enhancing one's spiritual connection with God? God would rather us not fight over what religion is right, but accept the commonality that those individuals of every religion found a way to him.

You are right about this. It’s your faith that develops your connection with God. Religion is just a means to express this; and sometimes it gets expressed in ways that ends up doing more damage the greater cause than good.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
slaphappynmd said:
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

- Epicurus

Only Sheep need a shepherd!


"Is Daddy able to give me candy for dinner, but not willing? BAD DADDY!"


The paradox fails because the individual premises fail; they demonstrate an extremely simplistic view of who God is, or where his wisdom leads. And it presumes that the presence of "evil" is always to the detriment of man and against the goal of a benevolent God. And far too much is deemed "evil" which is nothing more than a dissatisfied id confounded with having its will thwarted. It's not for naught that believers have said for millennia that God is mysterious, just as a child doesn't understand the ways of their seemingly whimsical parents.

If someone choose to believe or disbelieve in a God who is absolutely no more than a capricious being who made up a set of senseless and arbitrary rules - if that works for you, fine, if it doesn't - forgive me then if I'm dismissive of the straw man version of God you choose not to believe in. It's kind of silly to completely make up a comic book version of a real thing, and then dispute the source of the fictional version you've created.
 

brendar buhl

Doesn't seem Christian
forever jewel said:
Each religion was developed from a collaboration of individual interpretations of God's law, whether it be Christianity, Judaism, etc. By suggesting that the interpretation you follow to be the one true interpretation is arrogant; how do you know that your religion is superior to every other religion in existence...
Is it arrogant to assume that you are the judge of what is and is not arrogance? Life is full of judgement calls.

SamSpade said:
"Is Daddy able to give me candy for dinner, but not willing? BAD DADDY!"


The paradox fails because the individual premises fail; they demonstrate an extremely simplistic view of who God is, or where his wisdom leads...It's kind of silly to completely make up a comic book version of a real thing, and then dispute the source of the fictional version you've created.

Great post, makes you stop and think, "Maybe God wants something from me."
 

JPC sr

James P. Cusick Sr.
Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

SamSpade said:
... it presumes that the presence of "evil" is always to the detriment of man and against the goal of a benevolent God. And far too much is deemed "evil" which is nothing more than a dissatisfied id confounded with having its will thwarted.
AMEN.
 
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